PL kites auto-zenith?

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poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
12 May 2007 7:55pm
quote:
Originally posted by xtortya

weirder, but no where near as hot.


stop it
eightfootplus
eightfootplus
NSW
298 posts
NSW, 298 posts
12 May 2007 11:33pm
I think the reason PLs auto is relatively simply, the best things usually are.

If you condider that the PL arc is fully symetrical and made up of sections (the cells), then think that each cell produces some lift. Draw a semi cirlce with lots of small arrow pointing out to signify the lift. Then if the kite is flying perfectly horizontal then there are as many arrows pointing down as up, so there should be no auto zeneth effect. If the kite is flying at an slightly upwards angle to the horizontal then there will be more arrows pointing up than down, so the kite flies up. When it reaches the top at zeneth the lift forces equalise again, so it stays there.

Now how do I explain the effect when the kite is pointed down? and from my experience if a PL is lightly pointed down it will turn itseft and head back up. If we keep the logic that the lift forces are symetrical then the kite should drive itself into the water by the same logic, but it doesnt. When the kite is pointed down it is still at a angle above the horizontal, so that lift force is pulling the top tip up more than the bottom tip is pulling down so the kite starts to turn back up again.

Of course I have been known to be wrong before, and i only spent 5 minutes thinking about this.

PLs rock and are easy to relaunch, nothing is perfect, but dont be fooled by the fools.
NSW, 4382 posts
13 May 2007 8:36am
LMAO, bam you bite every time.

You replying all the time is what is driving my point home mate -

I am beside everything.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

quote:
Originally posted by poor relative

LMAO Stevie, you have to resort to petty name calling to drive your point home hahahhahaha
I thought you were above all that. Clearly i was wrong....


You are indeed weirder than me.

poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
13 May 2007 8:56am
What is your point?
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
13 May 2007 10:54am
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
I reckon you might be onto the truth there Mr Float, so all the older kiters, like the slave and rello, are paranoid about being seens as w.a.n.k.e.r.s. with little pumps?




Those cute little pumps....
lol.
I haven't seen those teener-wiener toy handpumps in years.
Every good kitebag contained one in the old days.
Now you get big, jumbo, f.u.c.k off pumps.
Dual capacity with a pressure gauge that craps out faster than a cheap Chinese watch.
(Does anyone ever use that deflate nozzle on the T-bar) ?
I mean, what's it for ?

Steve gives away complimentary toy handpumps to all the valued customers at his kitestore.
He ran out of fridge magnets and ballpoint pens.

The free handpump reads;
Kitepower Australia
Phone (02)95296894
"less kiting, more pumping"
Keep it low and GO!

But back on topic.....
Doonas need to be inflated to fly.
And I really get a kick from watching them naturally inflate on the beach.
No seriously, I really love it.

They suck up the breeze thru their large, hairy nostrils and puff-up into something soft and cuddly.
It's just like magic.

And when I see the fluffed-up doona,
I just want to run down and jump on the thing.
lol.
I do.
I just want to romp and roll and play bouncy-castle on it.
But I restrain myself.

But when they finally get launched into the sky,
a truckload of sand is flung downwind for 50 metres all over the unsuspecting families.
That's fun too.

Lucky for us we don't see too many doonas at the local pointbreak.
That's because the launch is deadmeat.
The wind direction is cross-off and the hill creates a hell wind shadow.
And everytime they build another macmansion, it only gets worse.

Those large kite-nostrils just can't seem to suck up enough seabreeze fast enough.
The kite is flaccid.
Maybe one of those noisey leaf-blowers could give a better blowjob.


manicskier
manicskier
VIC
772 posts
VIC, 772 posts
13 May 2007 11:13pm
The chair in my plane back from thailand had auto-zenith, every time i reclined it it would go slowly back to vertical again.

Damn auto-zenith
mrbonk
mrbonk
NSW
483 posts
NSW, 483 posts
14 May 2007 7:30am
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Lucky for us we don't see too many doonas at the local pointbreak.
That's because the launch is deadmeat.
The wind direction is cross-off and the hill creates a hell wind shadow.
And everytime they build another macmansion, it only gets worse.

Those large kite-nostrils just can't seem to suck up enough seabreeze fast enough.
The kite is flaccid.
Maybe one of those noisey leaf-blowers could give a better blowjob.


If the wind shadow is that bad, how do you get your LEI launched there?
robbo
robbo
WA
306 posts
WA, 306 posts
14 May 2007 9:29am
i am starting to wonder if PL actually "designed" AZ into the kite, or if it just started doing it after he stitched all the cells together, and he thought "**** - how am i going to sell this?"

I am not knocking PL - just that these things happen sometimes, and it all becomes a marketing gimmick as to how generally they are accepted..

waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
14 May 2007 9:47am
quote:
Originally posted by mrbonk

quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Lucky for us we don't see too many doonas at the local pointbreak.
That's because the launch is deadmeat.
The wind direction is cross-off and the hill creates a hell wind shadow.
And everytime they build another macmansion, it only gets worse.

Those large kite-nostrils just can't seem to suck up enough seabreeze fast enough.
The kite is flaccid.
Maybe one of those noisey leaf-blowers could give a better blowjob.


If the wind shadow is that bad, how do you get your LEI launched there?



We drift launch.
Don't try that with your doona.
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
14 May 2007 10:23am
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave


"
Keep it low and GO!


And when I see the fluffed-up doona,
I just want to run down and jump on the thing.
lol.
I do.
I just want to romp and roll and play bouncy-castle on it.
But I restrain myself.

But when they finally get launched into the sky,
a truckload of sand is flung downwind for 50 metres all over the unsuspecting families.
That's fun too.






PMSL - now got to give him credit where it's due - thats funny because theres actually some truth to it!

I have always wanted to run up and jump on them too. its like when you have a paper bag (from the local drive through) and your dogs next to you... you just got to pop it. Well its fun when your pickled with goon and laying on a bench in kings park next to your shopping trolly. - maybe you just had to be there to get it.

btw not knocking anyone that flys a PL if they do it for you that's all that mattres matters really
colinwill78
colinwill78
VIC
1395 posts
VIC, 1395 posts
14 May 2007 3:16pm


what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?

What about an inflato being flown from a crane, would that naturally sit at 6 o'clock, gently pulling down?

I realise this doesn't have an application in kite surfing.
meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
14 May 2007 1:27pm
quote:
what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?


Thats a good point and begs the question.

If you buy an auto-zenithing kite from the northern hemisphere and then fly it in the southern hemisphere will the kite get confused and think down is up and up is down? could mean your kite would auto crash instead of auto-zenith.

Do the kites have an invert option? like on an xbox controller?
tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
14 May 2007 3:43pm
Now we're getting somewhere!
Do they turn better clockwise in the southern hemisphere? I'm sure it's got something to do with the Coriolis effect.....
They also seem to be a very effective sedative, at least, whenever I launch a foil the other tube kiters all seem to start yawning....
mrbonk
mrbonk
NSW
483 posts
NSW, 483 posts
14 May 2007 3:52pm
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

We drift launch.
Don't try that with your doona.



Ah.....of course. I forget not everyone has loads of space to launch/land like I do

I must admit, if the only place I could kite involved me having to drift launch all the time, I think I'd be inclined to move.
dan OK?
dan OK?
VIC
253 posts
VIC, 253 posts
14 May 2007 4:28pm
Sounds like the kind of beach where if you can get your kite up, you deserve to be there!

I like it heaps.

There should be bans on the spot, like for anyone anywhere who cant self land.
They stand out on their lonely wind swept beach hoping someone will run th 500m to help.
They need crash tackling and wet sand poured on their pink waroos!
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
14 May 2007 4:41pm
why not ?i have, and know others who do.

quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

quote:
Originally posted by mrbonk

quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Lucky for us we don't see too many doonas at the local pointbreak.
That's because the launch is deadmeat.
The wind direction is cross-off and the hill creates a hell wind shadow.
And everytime they build another macmansion, it only gets worse.

Those large kite-nostrils just can't seem to suck up enough seabreeze fast enough.
The kite is flaccid.
Maybe one of those noisey leaf-blowers could give a better blowjob.


If the wind shadow is that bad, how do you get your LEI launched there?



We drift launch.
Don't try that with your doona.

colinwill78
colinwill78
VIC
1395 posts
VIC, 1395 posts
14 May 2007 4:52pm
quote:
Originally posted by meerkat

quote:
what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?


Thats a good point and begs the question.

If you buy an auto-zenithing kite from the northern hemisphere and then fly it in the southern hemisphere will the kite get confused and think down is up and up is down? could mean your kite would auto crash instead of auto-zenith.

Do the kites have an invert option? like on an xbox controller?



i see you've also given this alot of thought.

I think i have it worked out!!!
because Foils are crap (depends who you ask - not my personal opionion )they actaully fall off the bottom of the earth, giving Australians the perception of Auto zennith.

Come to think of it i used to have a kite that would only fly in the southern hemisphere and not in the northern hemisphere.
I'm not telling you what kind of kite it was though
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
14 May 2007 5:58pm
come on colin - i bet you a million.. no lets talk real money a gazzilion dollars that there was no such kite that did this.

cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
14 May 2007 6:00pm
come on colin still waiting.. name the kite!

cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
14 May 2007 6:02pm
yeah i thought so.

colinwill78
colinwill78
VIC
1395 posts
VIC, 1395 posts
14 May 2007 10:09pm
Cwamit,
there is too such a kite!!!!!!, it was....... ummmm.......well you see.......... I ........ ummmmm........ can't remember what it was,
i bet waveslave could though but he won't do it for a cent under a million gazillion centillion dollars ($US) and i honestly suspect you don't have that kind of money am i right??
there see..... i knew it!!!

eightfootplus
eightfootplus
NSW
298 posts
NSW, 298 posts
14 May 2007 10:10pm
quote:
Originally posted by colinwill78



what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?

What about an inflato being flown from a crane, would that naturally sit at 6 o'clock, gently pulling down?

I realise this doesn't have an application in kite surfing.



Depends on how high your boosting.!!

Why would the kite luff?, the kite is flying into the wind, up and down is relative to you not the wind. I would think if anything the effect would be more due to gravity. negative zeneth.

This is why the kite zeneth's on both sides of the world, except in the north you obviously standing upside down, so it just looks like its auto zenething, its actually negative zeneth.
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
15 May 2007 6:37am
quote:
Originally posted by eightfootplus

quote:
Originally posted by colinwill78



what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?

What about an inflato being flown from a crane, would that naturally sit at 6 o'clock, gently pulling down?

I realise this doesn't have an application in kite surfing.



Depends on how high your boosting.!!

Why would the kite luff?, the kite is flying into the wind, up and down is relative to you not the wind. I would think if anything the effect would be more due to gravity. negative zeneth.

This is why the kite zeneth's on both sides of the world, except in the north you obviously standing upside down, so it just looks like its auto zenething, its actually negative zeneth.



Fascinating... so to expand (no pun intended) on this a little further, how would you describe the kite behavour in a zero gravity environment?
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
15 May 2007 6:40am
quote:
Originally posted by colinwill78


i bet waveslave could though but he won't do it for a cent under a million gazillion centillion dollars ($US) and i honestly suspect you don't have that kind of money am i right??
there see..... i knew it!!!





million gazillion centillion dollars?

Now your just being silly.
manicskier
manicskier
VIC
772 posts
VIC, 772 posts
15 May 2007 11:19am
quote:
Originally posted by cwamit

Fascinating... so to expand (no pun intended) on this a little further, how would you describe the kite behavour in a zero gravity environment?



Would there be an atmosphere or not,
most zero-gravity also has no wind (due to the lack of the air)(apart from the solar wind, which doesn't help)

Otherwise i would say the performance would be fairly sloppy, except for a BOW, they can do anything
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
19 May 2007 10:20am
Only 7 pages. Did you run out of arguments
Gee, guys, you can do better, you have to beat the "galah" thread

Think that after a "contribution"like that, I will have to "duck for cover"[}:)]
HELP
NSW, 4382 posts
19 May 2007 11:42am
Ok, now I'm really serious.
The bet is on!
The stake is a gabzilion, billion, zillion trillion, maximillion, xxillion, dollars, and ten cents.
Name the kite slave, or write us some more kooky poetry, with some lols in it.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve
Samb0
Samb0
270 posts
270 posts
19 May 2007 11:25am
quote:
Originally posted by manicskier



Fascinating... so to expand (no pun intended) on this a little further, how would you describe the kite behavour in a zero gravity environment?
[/i]


Would there be an atmosphere or not,
most zero-gravity also has no wind (due to the lack of the air)(apart from the solar wind, which doesn't help)

http://www.kiteship.com/aerospace.php
Baitshark
Baitshark
30 posts
30 posts
19 May 2007 11:49am
Wow wow we wa
mrbonk
mrbonk
NSW
483 posts
NSW, 483 posts
19 May 2007 6:32pm
quote:
Originally posted by colinwill78

what would happen if someone flew a PL kite from a stationary crane. Could they fly it down to 6 o'clock? Would it auto zennith from below 9 o'clock? or would it just luff and fall down wind until it could climb again?

What about an inflato being flown from a crane, would that naturally sit at 6 o'clock, gently pulling down?

I realise this doesn't have an application in kite surfing.



I'd be willing to bet that an LEI would sit at 6 o'clock.

I was always led to believe that the reason LEI kites fall is because of the extra weight at the front, which tries to turn in the direction gravity is pulling it. So, if it's slightly left of zenith over your head, gravity is trying to pull the leading edge down and to the left. Once it gets to 6 o'clock though, it should just sit there happily.

I would be very curious to see what the PL would in the same experiment though. Someone with access to a cherry picker wanna try it out?
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