log man said...
Lachlan! stop it with the fricken asteroids kill more people per head of population in states where guns are compulsory on the second tuesday of the month.....arguments.

I wonder how many bushwalkers get killed by asteroids??????

Duh.

If an asteroid was coming and everyone had a gun, and we all shot at it then somebody would hit it and it would fracture and the 2 halves would pass either side of the earth.

Anyway - 15 pages WTF?
I can be trusted with a gun, I can guarantee I'll never shoot anybody, and so I have 6 of them.
Stop sooking y'all.

Mark _australia said...

log man said...
Lachlan! stop it with the fricken asteroids kill more people per head of population in states where guns are compulsory on the second tuesday of the month.....arguments.

I wonder how many bushwalkers get killed by asteroids??????

Duh.

If an asteroid was coming and everyone had a gun, and we all shot at it then somebody would hit it and it would fracture and the 2 halves would pass either side of the earth.

Anyway - 15 pages WTF?
I can be trusted with a gun, I can guarantee I'll never shoot anybody, and so I have 6 of them.
Stop sooking y'all.
It's not a personal attack on your "gun worthiness" or not. I have no doubt that you know one end of the gun from..........never mind! but I had 2 school friends suffer gun accidents when I was growing up One fatal by his own hand and another shot in a dumb hunting accident........apparently it went right up his second amendment! BOOM TISH!!!Anyway we all do things to lessen the possibility that something we do can cause strife to others. For example the pool fencing regs. Now that I mention it I'm not sure if this is a VIC thing or a national thing but anyway at the time it was introduced people were saying how it would ruin their lives but it seems pretty well accepted now.

Guns are legal yet Pot is not...... go figure

Anyway getting back to the States and guns. I think they are stuffed. There's a daisy chain of causality/dependency that's just not going to go away until God comes down and somebody shoots him cos they didn't like his manners.

NotWal said...

Mark _australia said...

OMG don't let him play footy!
If we apply the anti-gun crowd's logic, he will end up a drunken, chauvinist, drug user who rapes 16 y/o girls in hotel rooms and bonks his mate's wife.

Same as all who use guns are psycho killers (or at the very least bit weird)

Your arguments Mark, if that's what they are, are turgid and irrational.

Not everyone who owns a gun is a psychopath. But my guess is that a high proportion of psycopaths own guns.

It was in response to the thinly veiled implication in many posts that if people are into guns they are weird, or violent, or like killing things.

Just cos one is not into something does not mean one can claim it is weird.

Not everyone who plays footy is an ocker alcoholic rapist. But my guess is that a high proportion of ocker alcoholic rapists have played footy. What's ya point?


BTW top points for use of "turgid".

I think everyone agrees that you don't want people with mental issues (the bad type, I assume some forms of psychosis are not dangerous) owning firearms, any ideas how to prevent/reduce the occurance/increase the chances of catching the behaviour and then stop such a thing, from happening/continuing?

that is the funniest catch i have ever hooked! warm tea drinker with a wedge of lemon warning!

lachlan3556 said...

I think everyone agrees that you don't want people with mental issues (the bad type, I assume some forms of psychosis are not dangerous) owning firearms, any ideas how to prevent/reduce the occurance/increase the chances of catching the behaviour and then stop such a thing, from happening/continuing?

Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own firearms is to make guns generally inaccessible???

greenleader said...

that is the funniest catch i have ever hooked! warm tea drinker with a wedge of lemon warning!

totally vapid

Mark _australia said...

tmurray said...
Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own firearms is to make guns generally inaccessible???

but what he should have added was:


Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own chainsaws is to make chainsaws generally inaccessible???

Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own high powered cars is to make high powered cars generally inaccessible???


Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own knives is to make knives generally inaccessible???

(ad nauseum...)

Hey now we are onto something! Or are people allowed to own some dangerous things but not others?

OOOOHHH I get it - some things are more dangerous so we should apply a higher standard to those who own them, right? Like guns are more dangerous than knives, so we should require the owners of guns to have a reason, and be stable, and pass a test etc?
Oh sh!t, thats right we do!!!

Mark stop the bloody car thing already!

tmurray said...

lachlan3556 said...

I think everyone agrees that you don't want people with mental issues (the bad type, I assume some forms of psychosis are not dangerous) owning firearms, any ideas how to prevent/reduce the occurance/increase the chances of catching the behaviour and then stop such a thing, from happening/continuing?

Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own firearms is to make guns generally inaccessible???

But how do you do that without overly penalising law abiding/genuine gun owners (assuming that you believe having to get a firearms licence and pass criminal and medical checks aren't enough)?

lachlan3556 said...

tmurray said...

lachlan3556 said...

I think everyone agrees that you don't want people with mental issues (the bad type, I assume some forms of psychosis are not dangerous) owning firearms, any ideas how to prevent/reduce the occurance/increase the chances of catching the behaviour and then stop such a thing, from happening/continuing?

Surely the best way of making sure that people with mental issues don't own firearms is to make guns generally inaccessible???

But how do you do that without overly penalising law abiding/genuine gun owners (assuming that you believe having to get a firearms licence and pass criminal and medical checks aren't enough)?

You can't. Someone is usually disadvantaged or put out by most goverment restrictions.

I don't have an issue with people having guns, TBH they've been around me my whole life and I've shot plenty of things but..... From a community point of view I can see why gun laws are there. And agree that less guns in circulation mean less guns in the community and therefore a lower likelyhood of misuse. Did the government go to far in banning some weapons, probably, but overall, I can see why it was done and agree with the principle.

US man orders TV, receives assault rifle

US police are looking into how a local resident who ordered a TV on Amazon.com was sent a high-powered semi-automatic assault rifle instead. Washington DC resident Seth Horvitz said he contacted police immediately after a parcel delivery service left the military-style SIG Sauer SIG716 at his apartment door.
"They were a little confused at first. They've never seen anything quite like it," he told Fox 5, a local television station.

"They just took my information and then said: 'We'll handle this weapon because it's illegal to keep here.' It's illegal to transport in a car, so it can't be returned."

While the box was addressed to Horvitz, who had ordered a flat-screen television from a third-party retailer via Amazon.com, an invoice inside the box suggested the gun was supposed to go to a Pennsylvania gun shop.

A spokesman for Washington's Metropolitan Police Department said that the case - which comes on the heels of two mass killings in the United States in less than a month - remains under investigation.

On its website, the US subsidiary of SIG Sauer, a major European firearms manufacturer that supplies guns to many US police forces, says the SIG716 is "the rifle of choice when you require the power of a larger calibre carbine."

"We've seen in recent weeks the tremendous damage these guns can do," said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which campaigns for greater gun control in the United States.

"We have to be better than a nation where assault weapons are so prevalent and can so easily end up in dangerous hands," he said in a statement. "It's deeply disturbing."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8513390

I believe criminals get guns through the black market (as shown by a couple of local confiscations, the guns haven't been legal since 1996) and the fact that very few stolen firearms turn up in crimes (I think the figure is ~3%, not that all firearms used in crimes are found, most used are handguns). In the USA its different as there is no degree of firearm registration so anyone without morals can siphon firearms off. And there are that many firearms now, and firearm manufacturing groups that there is no way the USA will ever be without them (so long as you are a willing to break the law to get them).

The following is my biggest issue with excessive gun control (eg: 100% bans no matter what regulative hoops you are willing to jump through, or what you reason want a firearm for).
I don't think the terrible, criminal actions of a handful should shape a society of the many. Its not how we usually do things. This is especially evident to me as a firearms owner, when I hear about innocent people dying every weekend or so, due to alcohol abuse, but no one batters an eyelid...can you see my reasoning?

I'd be much happier to submit to gun control if all the other dangerous things were banned as well (not that society would ever want to be wrapped in that much cotton wool - which I think is a good thing for the reasons Cisco mentioned above).

Regulation, vigilance and education are the keys in the USA, not gun bans.

GreenPat said...

There are two schools of thought: There are too many guns over there, and there aren't enough guns over there.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

If people didn't have so much access to guns though, it's much harder to go on a killing rampage in a cinema with a knife...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-on-the-colorado-shooting-the-gag-rule-on-guns/2012/07/20/gJQAt4gPyW_story.html?hpid=z1

People with guns can kill lots of people.
How may people have gone on killing sprees with knives?
How many spree killers have been stopped by an armed civilian?
It has to be asked 'why was a six year old at the cinema at 12.30 am?'