Is windsurfing popularity still declining?

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pierrec45

NSW

2005 posts

pierrec45

NSW, 2005 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:01pm

DrJ said...

Cost and amount of gear has little to do with the popularity.

(...)

The one and only thing that turns people away from windsurfing is that it's feckin difficult. People that see the sport and think they would like to try it all want to be planing in the straps soon as they start ..... How many people do you k ow or have seen try it a few times then quit. I even know of a few that have spent a couple of grand on kit, seen them use it half a dozen times in one season then never seen them again.

And since no-one can make it as easy jet skiing, swimming, cycling or skiing .... It always going to be a niche .... Reserved only for those with patience and resilience. It's that simple.

If you had taught windsurfing actively (and I suspect very few have in here), then you'd have to agree.
A zillionnaire who can afford all the boards, or a young kid to whom you make all of your gear available, and they'll still give up after 5 minutes - too difficult.
You teach in the best of conditions: on-shore, nice shallow bottom, light wind, nice wide board, free chicks, and you get the same whine.

That's why I pick my crowd now, and send the others to macrame.

True though that some who do make it get discouraged by the equipment geeks. Those who try to convince them that their 'skills' come from a trailer-full of equipment. That's a different question.

KenHo

NSW

1353 posts

KenHo

NSW, 1353 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:12pm

Actually, it's the lack of schools to help people negotiate the learning curve that makes it so difficult. Schools can make it quite straight forward. I met a bloke once from a mob in Sydney called maybe Pirahna who said they did noob to instructor in 6 weeks. He may have been off his meds, of course.
Ski-ing is about the same difficulty, but has excellent schools (albeit supported by sufficient numbers) to get total nOObz up and ski-ing in no time.
Windsurfing is a jolly prickle of a sport to learn in Oz.
Have we not at one time all been beaten to a pulp by our gear, and loathed and hated every scrap of it with a bloody vengeance ??
Or was that just me ?

Jeffrosail

QLD

169 posts

Jeffrosail

QLD, 169 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:14pm

GazMan said...

Been windsurfing for nearly 30 years and gone are the days of one board-one-sail thankfully! However, what must the newbies to windsurfing think when they rock up at their local spot with one board and two sails when Joe average has so much shiny modern gear to choose from? Maybe that's the beginning of their equipment race, to aspire to get more and better gear to improve their sailing (usually based on what others say!). Does this really help the windsurfing industry when someone new to windsurfing slowly but gradually becomes an equipment freak, spending all his or her hard earned dollars on better gear rather than persevering with the basic one board and two sails for a while to improve and master what he or she has? OK, maybe that concept is very simplistic and naive, but I consider 'the old days' of windsurfing were very appealing as what the beginners were riding was pretty much the same as what the advanced riders were riding. Much the same as Kitesurfing I guess, can see the appeal, simplicity and benefits in having one or two boards with not many kites to cover a huge wind range (and that will all fit in the back of a station wagon or car boot!). Maybe windsurfing has become too technical for many with too much gear on the market that needs careful tuning to get the best from it, driven by huge marketing strategies and the desire for more and better gear? (no doubt that Kitesurfing would suffer from this too).

Gotta add that I'm a 'minimalist', I get away with the least amount of gear that I possibly can and feels like I'm in part reliving the old days by 'keeping it simple' which I think may be a reason for a decline in windsurfing popularity, not that I have really noticed!

On another note, had some of my best sails ever last season (Sept 10 to April 11) due mainly to the fact that I had health problems that stopped me from windsurfing for nearly all of the previous windy season. Sometimes you can really appreciate what you've got (or had) when it's taken away from you!

Started just over 2.5 years ago

. After 6 months, I went from an old 330 Tyronsea into the shop to replace it with an Xcite ride 130. The guy said this wont be the last board you buy. My jaw droped in disbelief

. Surely it will last forever? Now I have just bought my 4th board and got 4 sails. Boy, oh for the days when they invent the universal board and sail to suit all conditions. Maybe we are getting to specialised

Anyway, should be on page 6 by now. (why not, i have been through 6 sails

Jeffrosail

QLD

169 posts

Jeffrosail

QLD, 169 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:16pm

Pipped at the post!

GazMan

848 posts

GazMan

WA, 848 posts

20 Aug 2011 8:36pm

DrJ said...

Cost and amount of gear has little to do with the popularity.

Be realistic, the amount of kit you need to cover a range of conditions as well as the tuning required to get recently acquired gear to work properly (i.e. right mast, downhaul/outhaul, boom height, harness line length/position, fin size/shape, mast foot positioning, footstrap positioning, etc, etc) appears to be considerably more than what a beginner Kitesurfer would have to deal with!

Any wonder why the dark side is more appealing!

KenHo

NSW

1353 posts

KenHo

NSW, 1353 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:43pm

Let's face it, it's a horrible sport.
How about when a guy stops on the beach and asks about it.
You start explaining about the gear, and about 60 secs in, the expression glazes over, and ol' mate says, "Sorry mate, gotta go !", and bolts for the safety of something simpler, like cold fusion, or quantum mechanics.
The amount of assembly we all do every time we go out is quite unusual.
There are more complicated sorts, but they are equally low in participation.

pierrec45

NSW

2005 posts

pierrec45

NSW, 2005 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:44pm

KenHo said...

Actually, it's the lack of schools to help people negotiate the learning curve that makes it so difficult. Schools can make it quite straight forward.

And yet people aren't exactly lining up and booking reservations for the Balmoral school, for instance.

Funny if I was a kid all over again, I wouldn't dish out 50-150$ just to know whether I might like the sport. We have a yearly demo day here at the local club. It's $10, free lessons, hot-dogs, music, balloons, nice learner boards, and people still whinge at the $10 and that's it's too difficult to learn.

KenHo

NSW

1353 posts

KenHo

NSW, 1353 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:46pm

pierrec45 said...

KenHo said...

Actually, it's the lack of schools to help people negotiate the learning curve that makes it so difficult. Schools can make it quite straight forward.

The Pryde trailer went over quite well though.
There is too much competition really.
Everyone here has a different opinion about why it's so hard, and I think they are all right.
There are a LOT of barriers.

pierrec45

NSW

2005 posts

pierrec45

NSW, 2005 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:50pm

GazMan said...
Be realistic, the amount of kit you need to cover a range of conditions as well as the tuning required to get recently acquired gear to work (...)

Choices are made. I know people who have Konas, get out in all winds and are quite happy.

Has windsurfing become a sport where the more gear people have, the less happy they are ?

choco

4181 posts

choco

SA, 4181 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:22pm

One Design was simple concept, maybe they should start marketing SUP + windsurfing sail combo.

divaldo

2879 posts

divaldo

SA, 2879 posts

20 Aug 2011 10:29pm

Windsurfing featuring in the new Flight Centre advert for Maui /Hawaii, everything will be all OK now

KenHo

NSW

1353 posts

KenHo

NSW, 1353 posts

20 Aug 2011 11:00pm

choco said...

One Design was simple concept, maybe they should start marketing SUP + windsurfing sail combo.

Actually, mast-tracks are disappearing from SUP's.
The Naish Glides used to have them, but no longer, and only limited versions of Starboards have them.
A few Fanatics have them, but none of the non-windsurfing brands do.
I was disappointed with the upwind performance, ie none, of my SUP.
I suspect that most people who are enjoying sailing SUP are already competent sailors.

lotofwind

NSW

6451 posts

lotofwind

NSW, 6451 posts

20 Aug 2011 11:21pm

All this "because it is really hard to do" stuff dosent explain why numbers are dropping.
Was it easier to poledance in the 80's?????

KenHo

NSW

1353 posts

KenHo

NSW, 1353 posts

20 Aug 2011 11:50pm

lotofwind said...

All this "because it is really hard to do" stuff dosent explain why numbers are dropping.
Was it easier to poledance in the 80's?????

Yup !
One type of board, with a sail rolled up. A possible choice of two sail sizes. Full or 3/4, or possibly not, depending on who you hired from.
You dragged the whole shebang to the water, unrolled the sail, tied on the boom with a shoelace and shoved the mast base into a slot. Good to go. So simple, even you could do it. Lots of places hired the rig, so easy to have a go.
Big floaty log, uphaul, fall in, uphaul, fall in, uphaul, fall in, a good day had by all.
No harness, no footstraps, no drama.
Actually getting going was a mixed blessing, as most people only sailed one way, and needed rescuing. That was no drama, as the boards were so big, a small civilisation could develop in the wait time.
Then came AIDS, and the New Romantic music scene, which was even worse than the hair metal that was the alternative, and the party was over.
Thank God for epoxy boards and grunge.

Waiting4wind

NSW

1871 posts

Waiting4wind

NSW, 1871 posts

21 Aug 2011 12:05am

When I started windsurfing in Sydney (yonks ago) there were atleast 4 or 5 places I could rent gear and or have lessons. So it was lot easier to give it a go and have the opportunity to get hooked. I got hooked after my first lesson in Rose Bay and then really got into it after a long weekend clinic at Smith's lakes.

Every now and again I have someone ask me at the beach, do they rent boards here. The only places I can direct them to is Balmoral of WSS in Longreef. But if you're 30-40 minutes drive from the nearest rental options then your level of enthusiasm is gotta be pretty high to go to the effort.

pierrec45

NSW

2005 posts

pierrec45

NSW, 2005 posts

21 Aug 2011 12:13am

At least 2 more aspects were different.

Then, everybody would teach girlfriends, cousins, chicks, little brother, etc.
It was the thing to do, people did it and had fun. You'd see it at Balmoral often. Nowadays...

Secondo, in the Hawke era, for some reason people stuck at it. On those ugly and difficult boards, it would take 3-5 outings, but people stuck at it. And succeeded at learning (to various extents) - this is not the case now. You'd seldom see then the bratty episode "this-is-too-hard" after merely 5 minutes.

I have seldom seen a Windsurfer owner who couldn't sail at least a bit, and 500,000 were made. That means at the very least, not counting other brands, multiple ownerships, etc., about 500,000 actually learned.

terminal

1421 posts

terminal

1421 posts

20 Aug 2011 11:25pm

When I started in the 80's, you had one board and maybe 2 sails. You put it all on the roofrack and you lost points if your car cost more than your windsurf gear.
The board was so big you could always go out on it, and it was a workout carrying it to the water.

Now, if you're not planing, you're complaining.

Its a lot easier to learn now if you use the specialised learning gear than it was in the 80's.

Now, you could buy one board, one mast, one boom and two sails, depending on what type of windsurfing you wanted to do and you could get a lot of sailing from that. Only problem is, you would probably need to be at, or able to get to, at least the waterstarting level.

gregc

VIC

1299 posts

gregc

VIC, 1299 posts

21 Aug 2011 7:35am

Mast tracks disappearing from SUPs?? I don't think so. Starboard has them in almost all the boards they have. Naish took them out of the glide but they are in other models. RRD have them standard, a repairer I was talking to said his work on putting them into SUPs is increasing. SUPs this summer are going to be everywhere some with sails some without. I was sailing one all last summer and it's huge fun. Try it before bagging it

seanhogan

QLD

3424 posts

seanhogan

QLD, 3424 posts

21 Aug 2011 8:14am

Sup sailing seems to pick up, last month "wind magazine" edition was all about it, and it seems most brands are doing it.

gregc

VIC

1299 posts

gregc

VIC, 1299 posts

21 Aug 2011 8:28am

Truth is that most people just want to do something they are interested in. Look at surfing, biggest segment is longboards, why, because it's one board you take to the beach and be it 1 ft or 6 ft you can surf it. Job done. Sailboards, shall I take my free ride 120 or 140, maybe my slalom oh what about my FSW, now what volume? Sails lets see my 4.5 etc etc etc. Just cause all the bases need to be covered. SUP mmm 1 board and a paddle. Easy. WindSUP 1 board 1 rig and maybe a paddle if the wind dies. Once again easy.

Jeffrosail

QLD

169 posts

Jeffrosail

QLD, 169 posts

21 Aug 2011 9:09am

Now, if you're not planing, you're complaining.

That's it in a nutshell!! We have to have so much gear to cover all conditions.

Dr Duck

450 posts

Dr Duck

SA, 450 posts

21 Aug 2011 9:01am

I agree with you gregc, except that I don't think a WndSUP board is particularly versatile. Substitute it with an Exocet Kona, and you have a lot more bases covered for the longboard.

These are the most versatile board ever made - really I don't know why they aren't more popular.

gregc

VIC

1299 posts

gregc

VIC, 1299 posts

21 Aug 2011 9:40am

The SUP is wider and hence easier to paddle. I had a Kona it was ok but really not a patch on the SUP for versatility. Don't get me wrong I love my sailing but if I had to make a choice the SUP is going to win every time. I live inland so the lake is the normal place I get to go during the week. The SUP allows me maximum water time either paddling or light wind sailing. If I go to the coast and it's light wind then it's windSUP no wind then SUP. I can plane on the SUP but that's not really what it's about, glide and fun.

GazMan

848 posts

GazMan

WA, 848 posts

21 Aug 2011 8:44am

Jeffrosail said...

Now, if you're not planing, you're complaining.

That's it in a nutshell!! We have to have so much gear to cover all conditions.

How much of this is just clever marketing hype that sucks people in? Take a look at the sail and board ranges from the 'big' manufacturers (SB, JP, Fanatic, NP, Severne etc), do they really need that many different boards and sails in all different sizes in their range? Must make it harder for the distributors carrying so much stock, not to mention the poor beginner trying to make sense of what to get! (whether buying new gear from a shop or secondhand gear either privately or off Seabreeze).

GazMan

848 posts

GazMan

WA, 848 posts

21 Aug 2011 9:12am

pierrec45 said...

GazMan said...
Be realistic, the amount of kit you need to cover a range of conditions as well as the tuning required to get recently acquired gear to work (...)

Choices are made. I know people who have Konas, get out in all winds and are quite happy.

Has windsurfing become a sport where the more gear people have, the less happy they are ?

Was referring to the amount of 'basic' kit a windsurfing beginner has to contend with compared to a kitesurfer beginner, not really a reference to 'all' windsurfers!

Which one looks more attractive from the perspective of the 'bare minimum' kit you need to have to start out as well as things such as transporting the gear to the water, tuning the gear as well as progressing to a higher level once the basics of getting going and turning around have been mastered?

I've mentioned to some of the people I work with of late that I windsurf and their first response has been "oh do you kitesurf? That looks so cool". At my local beach (often I'm the only windsurfer out), many beach walkers stop and stare at the kitesurfers cruising along near the beach (in onshore wind), don't appear to do the same when I cruise past!

Mobydisc

NSW

9029 posts

Mobydisc

NSW, 9029 posts

21 Aug 2011 11:15am

GazMan said...

Jeffrosail said...

Now, if you're not planing, you're complaining.

That's it in a nutshell!! We have to have so much gear to cover all conditions.

When I got back into windsurfing in 2007 a few changes in the industry surprised me. Firstly there was one company in Thailand that seemed to be making boards for all the other companies. Secondly the huge variety of shapes available. This was a big change from the 90s where boards were usually made in house by the same company that had its name on the board.

It appeared Cobra had cornered the market with superior technology and was building boards at prices no one else could match. Also their technology allowed many shapes to be made.

Can anyone explain how Cobra came to dominate the market? Did they work closely with a company like JP Australia or Starboard to get into this position. At the same time the older companies like Mistral, Tiga and F2 seemed to have fallen away.

gregc

VIC

1299 posts

gregc

VIC, 1299 posts

21 Aug 2011 11:29am

That's because all sailboards are pop outs now and from a manufacturing sense having a single place make all the boards makes heaps of sense. Also the fact is that paying a worker in Thailand is significantly cheaper than a worker in a western country. The idea of soul surfers or sailors is long behind us, sports are a corporate pursuit pure and simple.

Sorry to seem cynical but time we all recognize the truth of it really. Will sailboarding survive maybe or maybe not.

SWS

196 posts

SWS

SA, 196 posts

21 Aug 2011 11:01am

I think in the end it all comes down to how easy it is to have fun. The harder it gets to have fun the more people you lose on the way. Windsurfing has a lot of barriers to having fun, wind, temperature, equipment other windsurfers back in the 80's with only one board and sail you could not see the potential of having more fun on a smaller lighter board or sail as there was not the choice thus you had fun with what you had cold, warm, windless or blown off the water.
Now if you are not having fun like every good sports person you blame your equipment or the conditions not helped by the bastard blasting past you on the latest gear.
Windsurfing needs to bring back the fun regardless of conditions or equipment to enable it to attract and keep more people into windsurfing.

Then again even back in the 80's I had a Div I a Div II and a funboard + a selection of sails!

sboardcrazy

NSW

8335 posts

sboardcrazy

NSW, 8335 posts

21 Aug 2011 1:10pm

I like watching the good surf sailors , freestyle etc 'extreme stuff' but I think if I was thinking of getting into it and watched that it would turn me off the sport..If I thought I had to be that good it looks too hard..too big a gap from first getting on a board and balancing to reaching those heights..too much effort.If your going to promote it .I think you need to show more average people just sailing along enjoying light winds or an occasional blast..And the social side on the beach.That looks more achievable.
I used to just sail and enjoy it but since I got back into the sport I've got too bogged down in the technical aspects and trying to get better to enjoy it as much.
I agree nothing like having a health problem that stops you sailing or makes you think you will never be able to sail again to renew your appreciation of the sport!

kato

VIC

3527 posts

kato

VIC, 3527 posts

21 Aug 2011 2:50pm

Dr Duck said...

I agree with you gregc, except that I don't think a WndSUP board is particularly versatile. Substitute it with an Exocet Kona, and you have a lot more bases covered for the longboard.

These are the most versatile board ever made - really I don't know why they aren't more popular.

Perhaps because the rig is crap. Loved the board but that sail was heavy and the draft moved all over the place. Why make a rig that doesn,t fit with any other windsurfing components, ie base, boom,mast
OD with a moden rig for me in light winds and when it gets windy,smaller board. OD cost $1 and it paddles easier than a sup,just a bit HEAVY to get off the roof of the car

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