rsc said...

Now here is a jackass --

(from other thread)

My exercise is not going to generate any bans. But this type of Show Pony idiocy is. I suggest you all get back on topic.

Actually, yes, your "exercise" may well introduce bans and therefore is no better than the show pony antics of others. Kitesurfing is a very visible sport and whether you're jumping over small children or being dragged down the beach by a runaway kite, you're being watched and judged by Joe Public.

The "anger" you're seeing on this thread is actually more one of frustration than real anger, long time kiteboarders have seen many beginners come and go and we often see a few repeating patterns with new kiters. You appear to be of the type that will set up 100m away from the pack, hoping that someone will approach you and offer help but you won't ask for it yourself. You'll make some mistakes that you didn't need to make because you're isolated. You think that "some day" you'll be good enough to join the herd.
Well, that day is already here, 99% of kitesurfers want you to join the pack, mingle in and learn from others. People will help you decide if your kite is too large or the conditions too gusty, no one wants you to have an accident and people will generally help out.

Next time you're at the beach, please approach and talk to the other kiters and ask for a launch, 99% of the people you approach will be friendly. I've been kiting for 8 years and I never turn down an opportunity for a launch from someone or to pick up some local knowledge.

Kite safe

iti said...

take responsability

I thought I made myself clear. I take shared responsibility within the Australian legal system as I understand it. The percentages are not material. They are a debating point.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Prove me wrong with evidence and I'll concede.

I'm involved in culture change. It is not easy.

On a 1:1 basis (individual to individual level) I'll simply express my views and seek to understand the responses.

However, where there is a company, organisation or group representation response then I'll suggest they need to be more careful in what is said. They have greater responsibility to ensure all their staff and customers and members etc know where they stand at law in respect to risk. Not what is a good idea, rather what is fact. To do otherwise may be a criminal offense depending on OH&S regulations etc that apply in that locality.

I was not going to offer analysis until the end of this case-study. But I will say this much: all this effort to protect a person is in fact, at the more general level, effort to protect an emerging profession of 'trainers' and a group culture that is at risk of serious public backlash -- and more importantly seems unable to take constructive feedback.

The level of risk ignorance and denial exhibited here is informative. I hope the various Associations that claim to represent good governance take note and adjust their codes and public advice statements on shared risk (and responsibility) accordingly. Then at least their staff/contractors will be more aware of the boundaries and complexities -- and they will then, one would assume, pass it on to new and old participants. Then there will be productive systemic culture change.

getfunky said...

I see the internerd tuff guys are flexing their muscles as usual, instead of staying on topic.

Maturity is allowing discussion on comments that differ from you own and not a sheeple group attack on someone who offers a diff viewpoint.

I'm not saying I neccesarilly agree with rsc - but some of you laydees are just to darn tuff and scary.

Always luv it when easter counterparts stick their peckers into a WA issue having never kited here or seen the amount of clowns and carnage.

Now - who wants to discuss the problems at Brighton - not posture with your mouse in one hand and your tool in the other?

Thank you for your understanding.

I too am rather dismayed at the antics of very experienced riders doing their tricks in close water VERY close to and around people with young children -- they may think it is fun/funny but in fact they are intimidating the average public who want to fish and swim. I've watched and studied the facial expressions and body language of both sides and there is a war on -- one that this Kiteboarding activity will lose!

Where is the responsible 'trainer' who sticks their nose in that situation of concern? Nowhere it seems.

Why?

Confusion? Uncertainty? Peer pressure and fear of the spiteful backlash on show here?

All three perhaps?

Time for local council beach patrols paid for by a levy on the equipment and services I suspect. As much as it disturbs me. Then perhaps they can also help launch/land kites between booking Show Pony idiots who are a public nuisance.

rsc said...

Trant said...

rsc said...

Now here is a jackass -- (from other thread)

My exercise is not going to generate any bans. But this type of Show Pony idiocy is. I suggest you all get back on topic.

Actually, yes, your "exercise" may well introduce bans and therefore is no better than the show pony antics of others. Kitesurfing is a very visible sport and whether you're jumping over small children or being dragged down the beach by a runaway kite, you're being watched and judged by Joe Public.

The "anger" you're seeing on this thread is actually more one of frustration than real anger, long time kiteboarders have seen many beginners come and go and we often see a few repeating patterns with new kiters. You appear to be of the type that will set up 100m away from the pack, hoping that someone will approach you and offer help but you won't ask for it yourself. You'll make some mistakes that you didn't need to make because you're isolated. You think that "some day" you'll be good enough to join the herd.
Well, that day is already here, 99% of kitesurfers want you to join the pack, mingle in and learn from others. People will help you decide if your kite is too large or the conditions too gusty, no one wants you to have an accident and people will generally help out.

Next time you're at the beach, please approach and talk to the other kiters and ask for a launch, 99% of the people you approach will be friendly. I've been kiting for 8 years and I never turn down an opportunity for a launch from someone or to pick up some local knowledge.

Kite safe

I appreciate your comments.

Point 1. You have a point although you are perhaps thinking of an extreme situation which this was not imo. Mistakes happen and can be corrected. So can Show Pony egos. The emergency system works fine when used. No need to be dragged too far.

Point 2. No need to type me. Your comments are on message and I hope many other new players are comforted by these sentiments. However, there needs to be a pack there in the first place.

As things go, I'm more likely to get a bigger kite and go even earlier to catch the gentle breezes. I've seen launching sticks (whatever they are called) screwed into the sand and that strikes me as a good idea -- as long as someone does not trip over them etc.

Point 3. I've already moved into that space. And I make every effort to assist others in kind -- mindful as to when and how I approach the situation. This is history as I said.

regards

You can lay the blame whatever way you want, but unless she did one of the following, its your fault:

a) Pulled on one side of the bar causing your kite to loop
b) rigged up your kite incorrectly

Its your fault for allowing her to distract you, you should be focusing on your kite. Are you going to blame it on a pedestrian the next time you drive past a hot woman and crash into the car in front of you?

How many people have to tell you it was your fault before you actually realise it was really your fault.

iti said...

Rsc kite where i kite and you have no waska membership and you do any damage to me of my gear id sue your ass off big time.

Now you are beginning to understand the broader situation -- same thing I've just been saying for this whole thread. But why hide behind waska? They'll just cover the costs -- not fix the problem.

And the 'problem' is? ... I'm not insured! Bingo. So what? The chances of me being close to you and causing damage by intent is zero. So what is your point? I'll get insured then what will you do?

Gee rsc book a holiday man, im gonna stupidly say something here, why didnt you pull your safety bro? im too tired from a killer kite trip to type or read your dribble, gonna roll a wafer thin, have a swim and chill maybe you should do the same The secret to happiness - something to love, something to do, and something to hope for.

Crikey dude, I thought you said you had a life?

Plenty of worse things happen at sea, and when they do you wish everyone was you're friend.

Lawsuits? WTF...

I was patient but can no longer hold my breath

The mind set of wanting to share responsibilities and the threat of suing is the saddest change to Australia.

I migrated to Australia 17 years ago from Europe and loved the freedom, unlimited access,easy going people and wilingness to resolve any issues with a cold beer or a punch up.

Now, it has been destroyed because of the americanism and idiots like some clearly inhabiting this forums are suing right left and center for the purpose of making money.

Now public liability insurance are so expensive that 99% of all activities are gone and kids will be very bored in the future (can't rent quads,jet slis.beach buggies,para gliding......).

I for one think that you should swallow a big shovel of concrete, grow some balls ,become a man and take 100% responsibility for your own actions.
You may find it liberating.

anyone know who the show pony with cab and surfboard was/is?

rsc what are you thinking man, you are just going to put your self in a corner and no where to go.

breath out and let it go.

rsc - Does the sheer scale of anti sentiment towards your views seriously NOT ring any alarm bells for you???!!! Think most here would agree that a seriously good LONG look at yourself in a full length mirror is well in order for you mate....

TROLL

gordknot said...

I can’t resist either....

rsc ... whether intentional or to raise havoc, you ignore your wisely worded first sentence-
“I'm relatively new to kiteboarding and note generally high levels of anger and outrage with low levels of mature effective communication skills.”

Your anger and didactic pedantry obscures whether you actually learnt anything from your launch disaster. I’ve had many laucnh stacks and all were due to my launch error including once with incorrectly tied lines. 100%.

If you were launched 10m and snapped a line, you were dangerously overpowered, lacked competent control (including keeping the kite on the beach until you were sure the timing was right) and/or had old or faulty equipment. Doesn’t sound like you even now understand what you did wrong

Blame the “young lady dressed as an instructor”, and blame everyone in this discussion –unless they support your rant, but your appeals to academia or litigious determiniation for eveidence based settlement, show a markedly “low level of mature effctive communication skills”. Take on board some of these comments, man up, and leave off playing the rationalist matyr

Skip the personal attack -- have you had this same situation described in the case study?

Secondly, correction!

You have written above: "Blame the 'young lady dressed as an instructor', ...".

They are not my words. I am speaking of shared risk and responsibility through a case study as an attempt to generate effective communication. It too may fail.

It takes a certain type of thinking to not be able to see a more complex situation as other than just 'black&white' -- something that is challenging the capacity of some people here to understanding it seems. That is part of the larger risk issue imo.

I am not apportioning blame. I am highlighting real world risk as I understand it.

Please be more careful in your apparent quoting.

mandog said...

rsc what are you thinking man, you are just going to put your self in a corner and no where to go.

breath out and let it go.

I am thinking people here should focus on the real issue as initially identified on the Thread title (Show Pony) and 1st few posts. My advice: Stop biting the finger and look where it's pointing.

But yes, I'm not feeding anymore so. I'll take your advice (and those of a similar nature. ciao!

Go on - one more, i know you want to...