No, "Mr Float", that does not work for me -- it does not capture the dynamics and joint involvement and responsibility (the key point) involved imo.

Read the story again. Think of a young woman in a car with a baby in the back seat about to turn right across traffic on a busy intersection. Just at the moment of decision to 'go' into a tight gap in the oncoming traffic you yell out something about a broken indicator light. She's distracted and mistimes. Then you walk away from the resulting mess feeling 100% happy you helped. Actually then you would be interviewed by police as a public nuisance.

The point here for me, which I'm obviously not getting through, is the notion of joint responsibility in what we do. You got here through sexual intercourse. Who is responsible for the pregnancy? Same with social intercourse. There is joint responsibility. This aught to be fairly obvious unless your are high on the autism spectrum. This topic is a microcosm of the greater story in much of these threads -- kiteboarding as a public nuisance.

The golden rule is do unto others as you have done to your self. And that includes the manner and style. It is usually called common respect. Read the story again and note that the initial intervention was communicating incorrect information -- the bar was not around the wrong way!

On the basis of this ongoing feed back I might be persuaded to move from 60% up towards 80% -- but I doubt the voices venting here could come down from 100%. It is a fundamentalist thing and cognitive challenge for some.

iti said...

RSC move on for pete sake,

you could of waited for a a couple on minutes and asked for help

you self launched didnt you , look in the mirror , dont blame no one other than the boy in the mirror

Laurie should close this thread down , i believe we are all over people who dont take cotrol for 100% of their actions,

1. Yes, I could have. Perhaps I had waited for many minutes already. Does the story tell you otherwise?

2. I was self launching with no one else in any danger from my actions (the CLEAR thing).

3. Interesting comment and reaction. Why the appeal to a higher authority (whoever Laurie is) -- is this not an open forum for discussion? Why are you trying to take control and shut it down?

It can stop anytime from my perspective -- but everyone should be entitled to share their views. Who knows, tomorrow someone may read this and add their 2-cents worth. Why does that affect you? It will die off naturally when there are no more comments and no interest. Why do you seek to intervene in a public discussion process? Want to burn some books next?

This is getting closer to the core attitudes and tone I'm seeking to study. What is it about this control obsession in this recreational activity and culture? Why all the anger?

Here again is a little something from a friend in another area altogether (i.e. comments on Dawkins). (the link if you want fora.tv/2009/10/07/Richard_Dawkins_The_Greatest_Show_on_Earth (and perhaps en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros):

"I like the golden rule, which in fact is very uoroburoslike, that when someone is externalising strongly a hate, he is trying to come to terms with this undecidability in him/herself." (Luc)

Now, thanks to another thread, here is a good day out for me:


BTW: "cotrol for 100% of their actions" -- I think you mean responsibility for (although 'control' as a core value is what a lot of these reactive responses here are about). In essence I can partly agree with you but only if you widen the scope of the interaction to include all parties - i.e. including the action of intervention. The only other close observer was her student. What did he see happen and of the resulting resolution? There are many angles to this type of thing. Don't be too quick to pass final judgments on limited 'facts' from one perspective.

I launched, I failed, I suffered, I learned. Now I've shared. Nothing more. And I've learned more even about the culture here. I have new insight into the issue I am researching which is outrage and anger as part of total risk assessment and communication.

If anyone is interested then check out Peter Sandman's Risk Communication and his 'Total Risk = Hazard + Outrage' approach (www.psandman.com/). It might help deal with some of the wider community concern and rising anger and outrage (it seems) associated with the Show Pony phenomena on public beaches (the thread title and original theme). Reinterpret his scale for outrage for kiteboarding and it might provide a means of communicating 'total risk' better across a whole spectrum of situations of concern -- and diversity of opinions.

rsc said...

BTW: "cotrol for 100% of their actions" -- I think you mean responsibility for (although 'control' as a core value is what a lot of these reactive responses here are about). In essence I can partly agree with you but only if you widen the scope of the interaction to include all parties - i.e. including the action of intervention. The only other close observer was her student. What did he see happen and of the resulting resolution? There are many angles to this type of thing. Don't be too quick to pass final judgments on limited 'facts' from one perspective.

I launched, I failed, I suffered, I learned. Now I've shared. Nothing more. And I've learned more even about the culture here. I have new insight into the issue I am researching which is outrage and anger as part of total risk assessment and communication.

If anyone is interested then check out Peter Sandman's Risk Communication and his 'Total Risk = Hazard + Outrage' approach (www.psandman.com/). It might help deal with some of the wider community concern and rising anger and outrage (it seems) associated with the Show Pony phenomena on public beaches (the thread title and original theme). Reinterpret his scale for outrage for kiteboarding and it might provide a means of communicating 'total risk' better across a whole spectrum of situations of concern -- and diversity of opinions.

The meaning or definition of Personal Responsibility hinges on your comprehension of the reality that the situation you eventually found yourself in, and where you were trying to apportion some blame to another, was entirely caused by choices, you made.

You chose to go kiting by yourself that day.
You chose not to go and talk to other kiters in the area
You chose to be shy
You chose to be unsure about the launch
You chose to listen to the advice of the passing instructor
Each of your parents, equally chose to have a root one day, you are the result of each of your parents personal choice, and now that you are an adult you need to learn about your choices, their consequences and your 100% responsibility for those choices.
There were at least several more poor choices you made that day that had a direct effect on the eventual outcome.

Stupidity is the result of the deferral of responsibility, so instead of examining ones choices and actions, then learning from them, one decides to stop looking for a way to improve and eliminate error, and instead focus on someone else to blame (ie, he said such and such, and that made me angry)
Unfortunately the laws in our society actually allow for the transfer of responsibility!!!!! (why - because it makes more money to make laws like that)

Join WAKSA, talk to locals, make some kiting buddies, avoid self launching and landing (but practice it if you are going to do it, in lighter conditions so you know exactly what to expect), and have fun.

I don't think he realises that kiting is not an individuals' sport. What we do on the beach and on the water reflects on the sport as a whole.

The fact that he was unaware of WAKSA, their fight to maintain access for local beaches and that risky behaviour on the beach is what threatens our sport amazes me. The fact that he attempted a self launch while not 99.9999% sure of what he was doing dumbfounds me.

Some people just don't get it, and never will.

Meanwhile the rest of us will have a ball, laugh with our mates and enjoy this fabulous sport.

Bigwavedave said...

I don't think he realises that kiting is not an individuals' sport. What we do on the beach and on the water reflects on the sport as a whole.

The fact that he was unaware of WAKSA, their fight to maintain access for local beaches and that risky behaviour on the beach is what threatens our sport amazes me. The fact that he attempted a self launch while not 99.9999% sure of what he was doing dumbfounds me.

Some people just don't get it, and never will.

Meanwhile the rest of us will have a ball, laugh with our mates and enjoy this fabulous sport.

I don't think you realise that it is not a sport for me. I drive a car, I am not in a motor sport.

I am doing my own private R&R at my local beach. I have not joined a cult (or have I?). I have read the WAKSA material. So?

Good to see you have moved off 100% down to 99.9999% -- it is a start ... keep going, it is good for the wellbeing.

The risk on the beach was to me and me alone. Until being interrupted at a critical moment. The rest is your issue.

With the attitudes and anger expressed here I might actually vote with local councils that are trying to keep popular beaches safe for everyone. Read the story and stop projecting all the blame for every PR problem this kiting activity (and for some a sport) has today. Your attitudes are contributing to your blindness. The Show Pony factor is the bigger issue -- not a small one-off self launch side narrative.

As for getting involved with WAKSA -- not likely if this is the 'friendly' and immature attitudes I'm likely to find.

btw for the record i wasnt laughing at the fact u got hurt just the fact u got angry

This is crackin me up!

we need more like him in the sport! They make for entertaining youtube vids !!

And here is some more footage of our good friend RSC, 'ripping' it up!

RSC you are a child grow up ,

dont kite at our local spot you are not welcome and you will be shown the door ?

dont need clowns like you at our local spot who are not responsable for thier actions

R0CKSTAR said...

And here is some more footage of our good friend RSC, 'ripping' it up!

And mocking this poor person on a learning curve, and by inference all persons in such positions.

Interesting, any more attitudes to vent?

rsc said...

harrysurfer said...

btw for the record i wasnt laughing at the fact u got hurt just the fact u got angry

Really?

Anger is normal -- anger management is what it is about. It should be over in 20 minutes at most. And no, I'm not an angry person by nature. Perhaps that is the rub here. Wind is crap, comment all you like -- I just come here to check the graphs. (And collect more data if available).

It is the background residual anger being displayed that I'm interested in.

when i broke my leg kitesurfing i didnt even get angry not for 1 min, i just got my mate to quickly drive me home so i could have a smoke and a beer before heading off to the hospital. theres no room for anger in sport. Unless of course u want to be known as the john mcenroe of kitesurfing.

look no hard feelings mate just get better at kitesurfing swallow your pride and when ur rippin it by the end of the month ull just read ur posts and shake your head in shame, i hope.

your getting red thumbed left right and centre because your attitude may result in bans and i guess some of us dont want u to get hurt.

harrysurfer said...

rsc said...

harrysurfer said...

btw for the record i wasnt laughing at the fact u got hurt just the fact u got angry

Really?

Anger is normal -- anger management is what it is about. It should be over in 20 minutes at most. And no, I'm not an angry person by nature. Perhaps that is the rub here. Wind is crap, comment all you like -- I just come here to check the graphs. (And collect more data if available).

It is the background residual anger being displayed that I'm interested in.

when i broke my leg kitesurfing i didnt even get angry not for 1 min, i just got my mate to quickly drive me home so i could have a smoke and a beer before heading off to the hospital. theres no room for anger in sport. Unless of course u want to be known as the john mcenroe of kitesurfing.

look no hard feelings mate just get better at kitesurfing swallow your pride and when ur rippin it by the end of the month ull just read ur posts and shake your head in shame, i hope.

your getting red thumbed left right and centre because your attitude may result in bans and i guess some of us dont want u to get hurt.

Well 'anger' is the topic now is it. Along with liberal ad hominem.

Yes, I may look back in time and smile, but what I'm saying about risk is relevant now and in the future. Some here seem to get that much at least.

Other personal attacks are interesting and irrelevant except to display the broader culture of this forum. Ignore this thread/topic if it disturbs you.

I'm improving. This is just part of the process of my kiteboarding experience.

Now here is a jackass -- (from other thread)

My exercise is not going to generate any bans. But this type of Show Pony idiocy is. I suggest you all get back on topic.

iti said...

you dont get it do you

Get what?

Please explain.