cam0063 said...


Barn - you definitely need to get off the net, out of your house and into the rural Australia - see the damage that is done to Agriculture and our Native environment by feral animals and talk to the farmers and the various wildlife officers, biologists and scientists out there working on this... You will see the truer picture as a whole. Its not as you describe. I'm going to test the lake waters for a paddle. If I can find booties as its damn cold here in these Hills this morning...

First off, I'm not having a go at the culling of foxes as an environmental conservation initiative, I was comparing our view of deriving entertainment from shooting animals to the practice of deriving entertainment from torturing cattle. Which I theorised was the origins of Halal.

Its the enjoyment factor that I questioned, and I questioned the justification of "just doing my bit for the environment" as a real reason.

Shooting is an inefficient method of dealing with foxes. It does not work.

Foxes aren't stupid, the only fox an amateur hunter is likely to shoot is an inexperienced juvenile. There is no way an experienced fox will get itself shot by a weekend cowboy. You want to kill foxes, feed 'em 1080. You want to keep an area clear of foxes, feed 'em 1080 360 days a year.. But hunters don't care really, Bang bang bang!


Foxes kill innocent Lambs?? It's our fault for breeding such hopeless animals. Wild sheep have to deal with coyotes and wolves, a wild lambs parents will fight off predators.

Kangaroos will rip a fox apart before it takes a joey, they have dealt with Thylacines and Dingoes, a fox poses no major threat.

The lambs get taken by foxes because farmers stick the sheep in the bush without any protection, they get weak from no food or water and the mothers abandon them... Finally the fox takes the lamb. Who is at fault?? Not the fox, it's just being opportunistic.

----

Ten seconds of googleing, from the department of agriculture and food.. www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/imported_assets/content/pw/vp/ddf/f06201.pdf


From Nat Parks NSW.. www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/pestsweeds/factsheet4foxcontrol.pdf


And from flicker, a fox attacking a lamb, this sheep looks healthy and according to the photographer the lamb got away..

FormulaNova, don't read this!

dinsdale said...

Personally I think you owe doggie a sincere apology for that.

He was purposely winding me up. And he sure as hell doesn't need you to stand up for him.

dinsdale said...
Still banging on about Christians barn? Still can't get your eye on the ball instead of the man? You know nothing what-so-ever about Christianity. You do know that the Roman Catholic Pope made some decree about contraception, but you know absolutely nothing about mainstream protestant Christianity. This is truly a situation where "... I can't argue with ignorance", and yes, I think you are! I think you've shown us all clearly who you are.

You are persona non grata as far as I'm concerned. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_non_grata)

Yeah I know what the pope said, so its just the catholics who are bad?.

You made a comment about Islam being 'crackpot' but you know absolutely nothing about the Sunni, it is only the Shia who are crackpot. Sunni normal, Shia crazy..

I don't get on the internet and tell people I'm offended by photoshopped paintings of my messiah. I point out the hypocrisy of one holy man calling another mans religion 'crackpot'.. Your all in the same boat.

Barn,

Nearly every hunter I know is an amateur mate!!!
"Its the enjoyment factor that I questioned, and I questioned the justification of "just doing my bit for the environment" as a real reason" Whether you like it or not Fox culling from an amatuer or professional or by road kill, is helping the environment, not disadvantaging it! You seem to tar everyone with the same brush, even tho you don't know them or haven't been face to face with the majority you direct your opinion at. I see you form a view and then class everyone within it the same. Its like saying all guys who take to the water with a board are arseholes because a very small number of guys attack each other on the water, or you heard something 3rd hand... Kind of a dangerous way to form an opinion on anything in life...

Its good to see you do do a little research. The lamb and fox pic is good, that lambs about 1/2 grown or more, should hold its own against a fox well. Against a dog [another big feral problem] it would be toast! I am sure you are aware lambs are not that size for the first week of life in particular the first 1-5 days when they are most vulnerable...? If you were more local I could take you to a farm 1 hour east of Perth, that has lost up to 30 lambs in a night, night after night if they dont shoot and bait during lambing season. It is operated by the University of Western Australia... I know the Western Shield article. Western Shield has a base of operations here in my Town at the Forrestry Commission base about 8kms away on the road from my farm... 1080 poison has had success. As I mentioned before, Baiting and shooting programmes combined. BUT 1080 can not be used just anywhere you have a problem. It is deadly and it is not a selective poison. It will kill Pets, some Native birds [Magpies, Crows and birds of prey etc] and many animals that pick it up. Kangaroos and Emus being natives to this area I believe dont touch it. A fox will at times avoid the bates all together and some have carried them and dropped them elsewhere, even peoples back yards. Many do consume it and die. It is laced into meat cubes, lamb carcasses or into eggs. The local Native poisonous plant in my area is called Heart Leaf Poison. Its toxic make up is 1080 Poison! A few leaves will kill a cow. I have seen dead cattle from this and I know the plant is within 1km of my home in the National Park... Effective, but dangerous stuff. Same with Strychnine they use in bating programmes... They try to be as selective as they can with its use, its good but it isn't Perfect! The fox and pig hunter tho not always successful, is selective... I am thinking, no, I am sure your cute little fox doesn't die an instant painless death with 1080 poison.

“Kangaroos will rip a fox apart before it takes a joey”
Rip apart by the Joey or the mum? No either way... Sorry mate – absolute garbage!!! I have seen the mother sometimes try to defend, never rip apart as you state and I personally have never seen or heard of a mother or Joey Kill or even cripple a fox! I have seen a fox with my own eyes attack a Joey. 1 died because I didnt have a rifle. The other lived because I did have. A boomer will attack a dog and I have heard of more instances of dogs being drowned by one than ripped apart. They will do both, but more often than not they flee... In the afternoon and night I have Kangaroos within 5o meters of the front lawn. I can see individual groups of 2-3 right up to 60 at anytime during the day on my farm and there are many groups. I have a pet Kangaroo asleep on a dog bed on the back verandah right now, if she is not eating the lawn...

10 seconds of Google-ing is good. A lot of good information can be found... You can find fact, semi fact, straight out lies, entertaining fiction and I am sure I could locate a map to King Solomons mines tho would need longer than 10 mins I think and it will probably be a dead end... The net is a good tool, tho rarely gives a complete picture even with facts and can be way off all together. However you desperately need to get out listen and see rural Australia with your own eyes!!! Never before have I seen the rift of information and experience so great between city and rural Australia as here... Go forth and experience, you may understand rural and conservation Australia much better.... The original topic has been way side tracked. We know no one supports the cruelty we all saw, even us farmers. So I will move on... cheers

Hey Nova,

I hear u on the broadband I have Satellite here, which is actually not bad, well better than the 31.2 dial up I had a year ago! But no mobile phone service at home. Thanks for the compliment. The rift of lack of knowledge and understanding I partially blame on schools, but I know its bigger than that. Farmings my life, tho I do have a small business importing clothing and footwear because Farming isn't reliable anymore and I am getting out. Will always be on some acres I hope. Wildlife is my passion and I have been involved in some amazing things [to me] in Africa, the US and here tho I have a tonne to learn...

I doubt foxes would get immunity, but they are very smart and that is why poison baits aren't 100% successful. I have seen deer exposed to Heart Leaf plants [1080] that grew in their paddocks. Some ate it and died, some did not because they wouldn't eat it. Smart I think wins the day...

log man said...

I've just read this thread start to finish.

you deserve a medal

www.news.com.au/breaking-news/cattle-exports-banned-to-indonesia/story-e6frfku0-1226071368249

The gov't could've handled it better...even if the exports stop inevitably, the slaughter houses will continue, with the supply from some other country with lower morals in relation to animal welfare. They also will no doubt ban any footage from inside...

...therefore all we've done is turned our head!

Adoy said...

Victory! great news today with the ban
Hopefully other countries will feel the same way if they are approached to export there also.
If Indonesia can't farm enough cattle for their own consumption they should take a good hard look at themselves and consider the population growth compared to their land/ resources as it is clearly unsustainable.
Or possibly thinking of changing religon/ religous beliefs so they can eat the same processed meat from Australia mate!

Well said, the latter wont happen but its a start

dinsdale said...

Adoy said...
they should take a good hard look at themselves and consider the population growth compared to their land/ resources as it is clearly unsustainable.

They have been for years. "First we take PNG, then we take Oz. "
(apologies to Leonard Cohen)

I spent around 6 months in PNG and Irian Jaya and saw many things never released to the Oz public, including Indon troops >100Km inside PNG doing some "land clearing". At least as far back as the '60s they've had their collective eye on Oz.

And probably still have! Hope will never happen as we will be very defenceless after the gun buyback! And do not laugh as the best defence is not the big army machine but lot of small groups of people having a great local knowledge can inflict big damage to the invaders. Look at what happened in Viet Nam and now in Afghanistan.

I have been bombarded all day with ABC news coverage on this. Perhaps that is what put me in a foul mood, that and last nights "turps" as mein Furher so aptly put it

Has anyone really given this whole live cattle to Indonesia process a thought? Why are we sending live cattle to Australian controlled abbattoirs overseas?

Why?

For the very same reason that we send coal and Iron Ore instead of making steel here and selling that...............

Because the profits are bigger that way. End of tale.

It ain't got sweet fffffing nothing to do with halal and all that colon traffic. Anyone who argues otherwise is spilling forth from their anus and not worth the price of a fart.

Barnaby Joyce leads the field.

Every abbattoir in Aus has a Halal man who mutters a few words when someone is looking. Here in Newcastle he stands on a chicken chain and doubles up as the man who corrects machine error by slitting the throat of the poor unfortunates whose combs missed the shock bath and the spinning knife. If that makes it ok for our muslims to eat, then it is good enough for the wild ones up north. And don't try and kid me that it is for Indonesian consumption. People who have an average wage of two cents a week do not eat prime rump, they package it.

So don't come crying poor farmers to me. If the bastards woke up and took back control of their processes we would be having this discussion. It is a crying shame that this barbaric behaviour has to be brought to our attention by an animal rights activist. You would have thought that there would be many farmers who take sufficient interest in their produce to see it through the whole process

I listened to a great interview with a goat cocky yesterday, one of the few who has managed to develop a business where not only does he raise his own goats, but slaughters them with a knife and............... blow me down, he also markets them

The guys I feel for are the thousands of abbatoir workers who have lost their jobs over the years, not the cockys. Take a look at a town like Blayney that has had the blood sucked out of it because the cocky's made no noise, oter than "Oh, we have to go with the markets"

Well take this as a lesson like any other bugger in business and have a bit of a think And take control of your produce because very soon I am going to join the ranks of the vegetariat

Don't get me started on that

We now have a 13 year old living in the house and it is tearing me apart. I have met his stepfather twice but never his mum. The dad is a druggo. He has been expelled and not attended school for 8 weeks.

I am thinking or running away

Mull is why he got expelled but I have never got to the root of the story.

I am teaching him to kite, bought him a rod,(he is a keenand good fisherman), he loves my dog but lets him scrap which is not good, and I am waiting on a marquetry kit to arrive which he as shown a lot of interest in. But he won' t read

Bloody hell, my last relationship broke down when I could not get my head around having another and now I have one without the benefit of a root.

Nup, gonna run away

japie said...

I have been bombarded all day with ABC news coverage on this. Perhaps that is what put me in a foul mood, that and last nights "turps" as mein Furher so aptly put it

Has anyone really given this whole live cattle to Indonesia process a thought? Why are we sending live cattle to Australian controlled abbattoirs overseas?

Why?

For the very same reason that we send coal and Iron Ore instead of making steel here and selling that...............

Because the profits are bigger that way. End of tale.

It ain't got sweet fffffing nothing to do with halal and all that colon traffic. Anyone who argues otherwise is spilling forth from their anus and not worth the price of a fart.

Barnaby Joyce leads the field.

Every abbattoir in Aus has a Halal man who mutters a few words when someone is looking. Here in Newcastle he stands on a chicken chain and doubles up as the man who corrects machine error by slitting the throat of the poor unfortunates whose combs missed the shock bath and the spinning knife. If that makes it ok for our muslims to eat, then it is good enough for the wild ones up north. And don't try and kid me that it is for Indonesian consumption. People who have an average wage of two cents a week do not eat prime rump, they package it.

So don't come crying poor farmers to me. If the bastards woke up and took back control of their processes we would be having this discussion. It is a crying shame that this barbaric behaviour has to be brought to our attention by an animal rights activist. You would have thought that there would be many farmers who take sufficient interest in their produce to see it through the whole process

I listened to a great interview with a goat cocky yesterday, one of the few who has managed to develop a business where not only does he raise his own goats, but slaughters them with a knife and............... blow me down, he also markets them

The guys I feel for are the thousands of abbatoir workers who have lost their jobs over the years, not the cockys. Take a look at a town like Blayney that has had the blood sucked out of it because the cocky's made no noise, oter than "Oh, we have to go with the markets"

Well take this as a lesson like any other bugger in business and have a bit of a think And take control of your produce because very soon I am going to join the ranks of the vegetariat

I think you should have turps more often, japie.

Yeah, totally love the way that farmers hold their hands out for any compensation,diesel rebate,machinery write off etc etc then squeal like little pigs when things don't go their way."It's too wet" , "its too dry", "there's insects", "the dollars too high","the dollars too low" And now it's "we didn't know about cruelty", "but if you stop live exports we'll all kill ourselves",blah,blah,blah. And , man, the farmers federation have got a nerve. now they want the assistance of the union movement to lift the ban on live exports to Indo....... **** me , after the farmers federation raised millions of dollars to try to smash the waterside workers in the Patricks dispute!!!!!. well farmers stick it up yourselves, keep voting National, and keep getting ****ed up the ass. Burn in hell.