doggie said...

felixdcat said...

my best mate (Vietnam vet) reckon that hunters are just cowards shouting at defenseless animals that can't shoot back. Hiding behind the" I am a hero doing lota good for this country" My opinions is hunters are c***s

Felix I dont think that you should bring Vietnam into this, hunting animals is differnt to warfair and we arnt talking about killing people here.

No comparison just a ref to an other opinion on hunting from someone that got hunted and was at the other end of a rifle.
The hunted party animal or human must be in such distress that it makes me want to puke just thinking about it, the hunters will tell you all about the head shots......... never about the misses that disappeared (200m away) with a bullet in the body dying an horrible death, or the young in a nest waiting for the return of the parent that went searching for food and got killed, think about them dying a long hungry death in a hole. Funny enough the wankers hunters wont talk much about it.
And do not say it does not happen as I used to belong to a group of people that would go around during the duck hunting season to collect the 1/2 dead ducks that the idiots missed and would no worry about. Collected a few rabbits and foxes as well and had to finish the job a few times. So maybe it is why I find very difficult to show any respect for those heroes in camo gear wearing their dick extension on the shoulder.

felixdcat said...

doggie said...

felixdcat said...

my best mate (Vietnam vet) reckon that hunters are just cowards shouting at defenseless animals that can't shoot back. Hiding behind the" I am a hero doing lota good for this country" My opinions is hunters are c***s

Felix I dont think that you should bring Vietnam into this, hunting animals is differnt to warfair and we arnt talking about killing people here.

No comparison just a ref to an other opinion on hunting from someone that got hunted and was at the other end of a rifle.
The hunted party animal or human must be in such distress that it makes me want to puke just thinking about it, the hunters will tell you all about the head shots......... never about the misses that disappeared (200m away) with a bullet in the body dying an horrible death, or the young in a nest waiting for the return of the parent that went searching for food and got killed, think about them dying a long hungry death in a hole. Funny enough the wankers hunters wont talk much about it.
And do not say it does not happen as I used to belong to a group of people that would go around during the duck hunting season to collect the 1/2 dead ducks that the idiots missed and would no worry about. Collected a few rabbits and foxes as well and had to finish the job a few times. So maybe it is why I find very difficult to show any respect for those heroes in camo gear wearing their dick extension on the shoulder.

So what about all the road kill, oh that poor roo like the ones that hop away just to die somewhere else?? Are you going to stop driving your car to kill it? No I didnt think so

I club seals.

The argument of shooting in the head, one shot instant kill is simple bull. I served in the army and we had pretty hi-tech guns and hitting a moving target where you aim at requires a lot of skill and it's not as simple as playing a video game - as pathetically suggested by someone here - frigging hell kids get away from your PS.


I wasnt talking about a moving target I said a responsible shooter wouldnt take moving head shots.
And its meat not meet

Wernt we talking about cattle ect?

jev7337 said...

doggie said...

Wernt we talking about cattle ect?

Yes we were, but what I'm suggesting is to tidy up our own backyard before we point our finger at our neighbours. We have a lot of our own issues to sort out but always focus on someone else's. When it comes to animal cruelty and human rights I'm afraid Australia compares more to a third-world country than a progressive western nation.

@ boofy: a live target is a moving target. No 'real' hunter would aim at the head, the head is too small and moves frequently as mentioned by felix. Shooting their snout away will also not kill the animal instantly and it is unimaginable what paint they would go through until they either bleed or starve to death. And if you always get them between the eyes then that's great but I doubt it.

I agree with what you are saying, I was refering to Felix and his people shooting skills. We have gone off topic a bit...

Who said anything about eating foxes, cats or even feral pigs (full of nasties those things). My main meat consumption is roo, and I take a few rabbits home now and then. As for who decides which ones are pests and which aren't - are you blokes kidding me? That nonsense doesn't deserve an answer. I guess most respondents to this thread are conservationists at heart - I am! I want to see the defenseless native marsupials, reptiles and birds conserved - most hunters are the same.

Military, and particularly sniping, are entirely different from hunting. I spent 9 years in the permanent armed forces. I know a thing or 2 too. We were taught to wound, not kill, for the same reason. As a hunter my shooting skills have had to improve many time over my military skills, as a head-shot kill is the only acceptable outcome (especially if one wants to eat the meat). As an aside, I mostly carry my 243, so for foxes, cats, rabbits etc almost any hit is an instant kill. I usually go out to hunt larger animals, so the small vermin are incidental to the exercise. If I want rabbits to eat I use my 17. Military rifles are vastly different from sporting rifles. You're not allowed, as a rule, to privately own modern military weapons in Oz.

As doggie said, whoever thinks an animal just stands there while you shoot it hasn't done it. You typically get about a 2 second window - sometimes more, sometimes less, but you don't know that till it's over. Cats are very hard to find and are very skittish - very hard to hunt and kill, and it's not common to get closer than about 150 - 200 yards from a fox. Pigs wait for no-one, and if you do just wound one you'd better be able to run and/or climb - yes the hunter does become the hunted Pigs are the primary reason why I chose a 243 over a 223.

>5000 foxes. Every year in sou' western WA there is a large combined fox (and cats if you see them) hunt. I'm trying to think what they call it ... Farmers and hunters from all over the sou' west have one big drive to exterminate as many as possible.

Any'ow, chew the bones out of that lot. I still hate cruelty to any animals.

boofy said...
Check it out 350 meters now if they were sneaking up on them flashing a photo of Julia Gillard and killing them stone dead that would be skill I am just saying that in this day and age there isnt much skill in this type of hunting
cheers Boof

He's a lot better shot than me. Despite the big scope it takes a lot of skill to shoot that accurately. It's not just the optics, try holding a rifle that steady. I wouldn't attempt anything beyond 200m precisely because I don't want them running away to die slowly in pain, whereas in the military (we had SLRs) we shot out to 1000m - wounding is the desired outcome in war.

I still have my trusty army issued schmidt & ruebin 7.65 hornet and would do a still head shot a 400m without scope. I would imagine that would be a good pig rifle. mind you that bullet is very fast and has great penetration ability but I am not sure of the stopping factor, as dins said war time shooting is aimed at wounding an that sort of calibre would get the bullet go across the body no doubt.

Sailhack said...

After growing up on a farm & seeing what a fox does to small animals, indigenous & introduced (lambs/calves etc.), I have no issue squeezing the trigger when one is in my sights! Farmers have their investment to protect, and shooting is a form of protecting that investment, for those hunters that don't have farms, I'd expect they would have permission by the property owners. I don't know any hunter or farmer that takes joy from causing pain or distress to any animal (but that could just be my circle of friends/family).

My brother-in-law regurlarly takes his 3 boys shooting, and I went with them a couple of months ago. They shot (and retrieved) 3 foxes & about 20 rabbits (due to the near plague of them this year). I was pleasantly surprised to watch as his youngest waited for a wallaby to move out of his line of sight before shooting a rabbit.

They used to let other shooters on their property, but after asking a group one night to leave a family of emus alone, and sighting the slaughter the next morning, they've banned outsiders from their farm & the guys that did the shooting found themselves in an awkward spot when they turned up next time.

In WA you must have a minimum of 2 signed letters of consent from landholders (farmers) to get your gun licence in the first place. If you have nowhere to shoot you have have no need for a gun.

Out around the eastern Gt Southern area where I was carting grain last harvest emus are in plague numbers, and they actually damage crops worse than roos. Rabbits have also made a big come back out there since the colece virus (is that how you spell that?).

Since we whiteys have provided premium food and reliable water almost coast to coast, roos and emus have bred out of all proportion. Like feral animals, it's a problem we've produced for ourselves.

[

In WA you must have a minimum of 2 signed letters of consent from landholders (farmers) to get your gun licence in the first place. If you have nowhere to shoot you have have no need for a gun.

Not quite 1 letter is ok providing the property in question is big enough. Smaller properties allow for shotguns and .22 and larger properties allows big bore bolt action rifles, primary producer are allowed self loading semi auto rifles.
License can be obtained for club activities as well and it is very easy to get a collector license. All fire arms are to be kept in an approved safe.

japie said...

This topic appears to have swung around a little! I have always been interested in Ecology and the lack of knowledge here, compared to Africa, always leaves me somewhat dismayed.

There is reason for the comparative ignorance. African animals are so in your face. The reason for the strength of the conservation movement there is that it began over a century ago when people began to appreciate that if they kept killing at their current rate they would soon have bugger all left.

Unfortunately Australian animals have never really been valued as they are somewhat nondescript and not much valued as sport.

Which leads us to where we are now, a country swarming with feral animals and not a hope in Hades of correcting the situation. Firearms confiscated, bottom out of the fox pelt trade.

Bring in a Bounty system and let us all wear the Fox Hat and kitty coats!

Here here!! And roo hide makes beautiful ugg boots, gloves and jackets.

Actually, iirc the topic was about the barbaric slaughter methods used in some other countries.

^^ I would have no problem in blowing that foxes head off Barn. I wouldnt even think about it!

Hey Doggie
I dont get all the built up anger towards foxes ( released here by hunters for sport) if your a landowner or farmer then I guess you could have a right to despise them, they are just doing what they have done for thousands of years same as dingos. The impact foxes have had on the environment wouldn't even remotely compare to what man has destroyed in 200 years. What chance have even our native wildlife got when fwit national parks rangers on Fraser go on a killing spree everytime some parent doesn't keep their eye on their kids yes I acknowledge this is a bit of a rant
cheers Boof

doggie said...

felixdcat said...

I love shooting but I do not have the urge of killing hapless creature for fun.

When they feral or you are killing for food I dont see a problem, but thats just my opinion, and I recon alot of country people would agree..

Maybe it will work this time. Been trying to post half the day but the pages just keep timing out. So here it is.

I also love shooting. I was militarily trained first in Army Cadets at high school and in the Navy when I joined up. As a fitter and machinist I find guns fascinating from a technical point of view and the "proof of the pudding" is when you take a gun onto the range (mine was a 303 Jungle Carbine) and put 3 out of 5 shots in the bull's eye from 300 yards without using a scope or bench tripod.

I have also been hunting with a rifle on a few occasions and killed twice, once for "fun" and once for food. Neither was a dead drop and neither was a pleasant experience. Both were good shots but not quite good enough for a dead drop. Both were mortally wounded but we had to chase both targets down and finish them off.

The "fun" kill was not fun and the food kill tasted crap, it being a goanna sized lizard I shot on Koh Samui which when cooked was spiced up as hot as hell, was really gamey in flavour and as chewy as spear gun rubber.

Achieving a drop shot in the field is a whole different ball game from range shooting. Those that do it must be highly practised.

Hunting to kill is something that some people do with which I have no problem as long as it is not riding on a buggy and knocking off a bear as someone described. Worked with a guy who would hunt feral pigs with two or three dogs and a knife. Dogs would run down and hold the pig and then he would come and cut the pig's throat. Fair bit of danger in it for him and no doubt an adrenalin pumping experience. Bow hunters are in the same field.

Hunting to eradicate feral animals and culling excess herds of others using vehicles, spotlights and scopes is ethical and the way it should be done.

The few times I have killed an animal it had a fairly profound effect on me and the worst was watching my 14 yo kelpie being put down by the vet because he had a broken back from getting skittled by a car.

Killing an animal or watching one die takes a bit of my soul away.

The video posted in this thread is really distressing and I think the slaughterers in it would have to be devoid of any soul at all.

The bulk slaughtering of animals is necessary for humans to live but the most humane way of doing it is still an open debate.

One thing is for sure and that is there should be no cruelty in it.

Edit:- Two creatures I have no compunctions about killing are cane toads and edible fish that I land in my boat. Many scientists hold that fish feel no pain.