CMC said...

I grew up on Farms and have seen many animals killed. Saying that the above video shocks me so much that I had to turn it off.

Can anyone actually explain the religious benefit or why this is necessary for animals to be killed in such a way when there are clearly more humane ways to do it???

I'm off to search google, if I find anything useful I will post the links here.

I couldnt watch it either I didnt have a problem with the bolt but after that, na just had to stop it!!

Here is some info from the other side of the equation: The Non Western side.

www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm


This same spiel is repeated across most Muslim sites.


If you read it what do you think??

CMC said...

Here is some info from the other side of the equation: The Non Western side.

www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm


This same spiel is repeated across most Muslim sites.


If you read it what do you think??

I read it and it is convincing enough, but did not see the bit about blunt knife?

rodders67 said...

doggie said...

Gorgo said...

This topic came up a couple of years ago. I think it was animals being slaughtered in Saudi. They would slash the cow's eyes and blind them. Once they can't see the cattle quiet down and they can be managed more easily.

At risk of being branded a racist, I find religions in general to be offensive.

I can understand people taking comfort in having faith in some sort of deity or ideology.

I feel no sympathy for religions if they require you to:
- wear a special hat
- wear special clothes
- wear your hair in a special way (head or facial)
- remove parts of your body (unless there is a demonstrable medical or hygiene reason to do it)
- eat/not eat any foods for any other than nutrition and hygiene reason
- prepare foods in a ceremonial way (unless it is for hygiene reasons, or possibly, a philosophical reason to improve the treatment of animals. Maybe a ceremony requiring the people to appreciate the fact that animals are being killed or people are working hard to provide the food. Definitely not something requiring stuff be done to the animal or food.)
- get pregnant every time you have sex.
- forgo routine, mundane life saving medical interventions
- anything else that gives me the sh.ts

+ 1 could not agree more

+2 SICK TO DEATH OF EXCUSES

+1 so do I

CMC said...

Here is some info from the other side of the equation: The Non Western side.

www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm


This same spiel is repeated across most Muslim sites.


If you read it what do you think??

This article tries to sanitise the procedure by totally neglecting to mention the practicalities of carrying it out on a large scale.
The origin of it goes right back thousands of years when the animal being killed was raised from birth in the household of the family which would eventually kill it and eat it.
The animal, be it a sheep, goat or cow would live in daily contact with all members of the household. They would naturally develop some empathy with it and attachment to it.
The procedure was meant to instil in the people a clear understanding that their life was given sustenance by the laying down of the life of another.
It was said that the life was in the blood and the body was something separate.
The life belonged to god and therefore had to be poured out. They were then free to use the body for food.

The point is, because the animal lived with the people, there was no trouble in getting up close to it, laying it down and cutting its throat. It would have been a very difficult job to cut the throat of something that you had lived with for the last few years and this would have made clear to the people that it is not an action to be regarded lightly or with disrespect.
Provided this is done with a sharp knife and is not a hackfest I don't have a problem with it.

What there is a problem with is that when the procedure is converted to a production line, it loses all meaningful symbolism and becomes more a representation of mans barbarity.
It is impossible to humanely restrain an animal like this on a production line sufficient to cut its throat in a humane manner. It was clear that stress and injuries to the animals were a normal and expected occurrence in getting the animal into such a position that its throat can be cut.
It was also clear that the entire procedure was carried out with total disrespect for the life of the animal, which totally negates the symbolism that it is supposed to be complying with.
The website above completely ignores this.

Hopefully, if this program gets some air time in Indonesia it might alert them that all is not as perfect and painless as they believe.
It was also clear that the procedure had absolutely no religious significance to the workers carrying out the killing.
It was a prime example of pretending to comply with the letter of their law without any regard for the meaning of it.
Since it no longer has any meaning then it should be stopped.

I love this thread
Westerners are so self fkn righteous.
We never ever do anything inhumane to animals.

CMC said...

I grew up on Farms and have seen many animals killed. Saying that the above video shocks me so much that I had to turn it off.

Can anyone actually explain the religious benefit or why this is necessary for animals to be killed in such a way when there are clearly more humane ways to do it???

I'm off to search google, if I find anything useful I will post the links here.

+1

poor relative said...

I love this thread
Westerners are so self fkn righteous.
We never ever do anything inhumane to animals.

Ed Zacary! Just fits in with the agenda to give animal cruelty a muslim slant. If you scratch around on the internet you can find all manner of evidence from all around the world, including Australia.

barn said...
Dinsdale again, how can you criticise another religion for being "Crack pot'.. Your all equally crackpot..

Trying to draw any kind of moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam is complete lunacy. I happen to fully agree with every point on doggie's list, except the last one of course.

EDIT: Yep, sorry gorgo/doggie.

Agree - its a good list.

Going but what most relic religions enspouse, it would seem that god(s) is quite primitive.....

Any one see Futurama the other night? Very good take on religion.

Bender meets God, after first experiencing what its like to be a god to some miniture like people, very funny episode.

Bender asks to be sent back to Earth and god goes "where's that?".

I love animals too - bar-b-qued mainly .

I hunt, and I love eating meat. I'll shoot ANY feral animals on sight. I shoot roos, but only enough for my and my family and friends' consumption. I'm looking forward to my 1st camel hunt. Goat, camel and roo meats are each really nice eating.

However, I and all the hunters I know abhor cruelty to animals. We shoot head shots only - 1 shot, instant kill, and that goes for the ferals as much as roos! (If you think I'm not that good a shot, volunteer to prove it one night. How about you barn? ) I know 3 full time professional shooters, and they're the same. My religious beliefs don't preclude me from hunting or eating meat, but unmitigated cruelty is unequivocally out! I've killed and butchered scores (could even be hundreds by now) of animals, but my gut is as disturbed by Muslim barbarity and any other animal cruelty as much as yours.

EDIT: On a different note, the Jews do (or so my Jewish friend says) stun or in some other way " anaesthetise" their animals before their kosher slaughter. She's not sure how they do it.

dinsdale said...

I love animals too - bar-b-qued mainly .

I hunt, and I love eating meat. I'll shoot ANY feral animals on sight. I shoot roos, but only enough for my and my family and friends' consumption. I'm looking forward to my 1st camel hunt. Goat, camel and roo meats are each really nice eating.

However, I and all the hunters I know abhor cruelty to animals. We shoot head shots only - 1 shot, instant kill, and that goes for the ferals as much as roos! (If you think I'm not that good a shot, volunteer to prove it one night. How about you barn? ) I know 3 full time professional shooters, and they're the same. My religious beliefs don't preclude me from hunting or eating meat, but unmitigated cruelty is unequivocally out! I've killed and butchered scores (could even be hundreds by now) of animals, but my gut is as disturbed by Muslim barbarity and any other animal cruelty as much as yours.

EDIT: On a different note, the Jews do (or so my Jewish friend says) stun or in some other way " anaesthetise" their animals before their kosher slaughter. She's not sure how they do it.

A knee jerk reaction to your post would be to say shooting is wrong in the sense you use it, however I think you are more connected to life than most of us.

The great australian duopoly does the job for me - thanks Mr Coles and Mrs Woolworths.

dinsdale said...

I love animals too - bar-b-qued mainly .

I hunt, and I love eating meat. I'll shoot ANY feral animals on sight. I shoot roos, but only enough for my and my family and friends' consumption. I'm looking forward to my 1st camel hunt. Goat, camel and roo meats are each really nice eating.

However, I and all the hunters I know abhor cruelty to animals. We shoot head shots only - 1 shot, instant kill, and that goes for the ferals as much as roos! (If you think I'm not that good a shot, volunteer to prove it one night. How about you barn? ) I know 3 full time professional shooters, and they're the same. My religious beliefs don't preclude me from hunting or eating meat, but unmitigated cruelty is unequivocally out! I've killed and butchered scores (could even be hundreds by now) of animals, but my gut is as disturbed by Muslim barbarity and any other animal cruelty as much as yours.

EDIT: On a different note, the Jews do (or so my Jewish friend says) stun or in some other way " anaesthetise" their animals before their kosher slaughter. She's not sure how they do it.

as a former hunter I totally agree with Dins.

I only caught a bit of it. That cow at the end trembling as his mates were tortured made me feel sick all day - I still feel sick. May even turn vegetarian for a few days.

Stupid Indonesia, just another reason to never go there.

dinsdale said...

barn said...
Dinsdale again, how can you criticise another religion for being "Crack pot'.. Your all equally crackpot..

Trying to draw any kind of moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam is complete lunacy. I happen to fully agree with every point on doggie's list, except the last one of course.

EDIT: Yep, sorry gorgo/doggie.

How about the moral equivalence of Halal meat in the following..

-denying family planning to the developing countries (overpopulation, starvation)

-denying abortions in all cases (Mexico et al)

-denying cheap prevention of AIDs in developing countries

-scaring children with threats of eternal hellfire and damnation (mental child abuse)

-deaths of children whose parents relied on faith healing

-denying stem cell research (because a cell culture has a soul)

-supporting the collective opposition to any criticism of religious beliefs (like when you got offended at a picture of Jesus)

-claiming raising a Child with one parent is paramount to child abuse (you said that, not really an equivalent to halal, but..)

-Witch Hunts (still happening in africa, thou not suffer a witch to live)

-the idea that the earth is ours to subdue and conquer (Tasmanian Tiger, Amazon)

Those are several examples of what I would say expose unnecessary discomfort upon other beings justified by you lot cause its in the scripture. I thought i'd ignore the crusades and the inquisitions because you guys seem to have got bored of that..


**(late edit, don't answer this on here as it's derailing)**
-------

poor relative, if you can watch the whole video I posted and tell me there is no difference between that and shooting a Roo between the eyes then there is something wrong!!..