Always Eager, Kean as Mustard..
Are you enjoying doing the Job??
Ron

Nikrum said...

Always Eager, Kean as Mustard..
Are you enjoying doing the Job??
Ron

Yes, not saying its the highlight of my day, but Im proud to have been the one chosen to sort out the odd thing on occasional.

Keeps me in contact with the group too as time to get up to mischief in the shed building is a very rare comodity (Im in the last few months of my PhD).

Yep! Lachy sounds like you have it licked. Goodonya.
Ron

Opps revise that the 26" is 4"wide. I think This is the most cost effective way to go as the 4" tires are way to expensive at the moment and I can get almost the same ground contact with a wider rim. They only cost time and a bit of glass and resin.

26"x4" rim



20" rim

How will wide wheels work. I haven't a clue. They may end up in the bin.(the wide rim idea is an alternative to buying expensive wide tires)If it works great if not it has been fun. It has cost next to nothing which was the aim in building the 26" wheels in the first place. I think we should keep experimenting and see where it all takes us as long as it keeps it affordable for the home builder which is what this forum is about.
Cheers
aus230.

yankeesailor said...

just one question guys. Is the object to build the widest wheel? I thought the whole idea was to build a 26" wheel with good bearings that would fit a large axle and keep it light weight. isnt going so wide with the rim and tire just adding weight. what is the advantage of such a wide rim. Traction, side slip , to absorb rough terrain. i know most of you who are building these wheels are avid racers and it seems to me by going so wide might not be the fastest. That being said i build wheels using these methods with aluminum motorcycle rim (wide ready to aviod the welding step) and narrow motorcycle tires(80/90-21") narrow in motorcycle terms, because i sail almost exclusivly on asphalt and concreate airport runways and parking lots and a bicycle wheel would not last. Im hoping that a lightweight motorcycle tire will last longer.

the idea of the wider rim is to create a more stable tyre profile , with loss of height, or a significant increase in weight. by having more parrallel side walls you gain a tyre that doesnt wasnt to slip sideways when landyacht rear forces are applied. I recently built a wheel that only had a regular 32mm wide rim, and the tyre wants to roll off, so you pump it harder, which give a rougher ride and defeats the purpose.
with vics wider rim he should be able to get smooth rolling at a lower pressure, without the side slip.
the reason we are not using M/C rims and tyres is the weight, , but yes you could build with the same process.
its important if you are going to race the yacht to avoid a flywheel effect ,where all the weight is concentrated on the outside. If the wheel is also heavy it becomes slower to accelerate, so you would be well behind the pack by the time( and if,in a light wind).
the extra weight of resin /rim from expanding the wheel should only be around 200-300gms, spaced evenly between hub and rim , so well worth the experiment
both vic and I have investigated the fatter tyres being discussed, but apart from the expense, and lack of availability, you have to realize that they are particularly thin walled and built to run at 15psi, rather than the 50psi we run on lefroy.We realize that they will only really applicable to to sand.Vic races on gravel with sharp reeds, I sail on highly abrasive salt.
on the front the wheel runs more like a bike wheel without the high side loads, so a fattertyre may be just whats needed to punch through the walyungup soft spots.
the wider rims weve found on the internet are either too expensive for our tastes,or are unavailable.
I terms of tyre wear, the hookworm tyres have been a great boost to the possibilities. Vic has had great longivety from his compared to the life you get from a wheelbarrow tyre.
compare that to lake lefroy where Im getting the wear of vics season in 1 weekend. thats why all my wheels are running cheap 26x1.95 knobblies that came off the bikes when scrapped, the hookworms are only for special occasions/
on asphalt I reckon you MC tyres will be a great option. If you can keep the weight of the overall wheel down then they could even be competative on nevadas hard clay as well

I'm using 16" Sava moped tyres (if measured as a bicycle 21" - motorbike size 16") which are 58mm wide (2.25") and with wheel weigh in at 4.4kg....but thats on the concrete airfield. Pumped up to 65psi rear, 25psi front. The guys using 26" wheels are running way higher pressures than that but at the expense of inner tubes not lasting... the narrower rim (2x MTB width) seems to drop nicely inside the tyre on a blow out saving the rim, so not sure about the stretched (3x) doing the same.

Those Kenda Flames I spotted/bought have the thinnest side wall I've ever encountered but according to the sidewall are meant to run at a minimum 40psi so I might have actually fallen on my feet for a change

Found a door in the attic which is about to double as wheel mould, so just resin and csm to buy and a bit of lathe work and I'm rolling. Well as soon as I've knocked up this other sail, finished some gelcoat repairs, and linished another set of tapered battens

Cheers Col

Thanks for that Paul,

I've been thinking about beefing up a set of wheels for a 2 seater & am wondering about sticking some gap filling foam near the hub after wheel is assembled; ie drill hole in segment between ribs & 1 squirt in each.

This ought to beef up the hub without weighing too much extra.

What do you reckon

Have also been re-working 5, shifting seat & steering back somewhat as too heavy on front.

VindisDad said...

Thanks for that Paul,

I've been thinking about beefing up a set of wheels for a 2 seater & am wondering about sticking some gap filling foam near the hub after wheel is assembled; ie drill hole in segment between ribs & 1 squirt in each.

This ought to beef up the hub without weighing too much extra.

What do you reckon

Have also been re-working 5, shifting seat & steering back somewhat as too heavy on front.

how would I know???????
If i wasdoing that I would make some kind of barrier to keep it within the zone of the hub. maybe a thin ring of glass, otherwise you could end with a badly balanced wheel.
of course ,as always, take lots of photos ,good or bad for us all to learn by

Gibber's post regarding the current wheel construction thread...

gibberjoe said...


That's U3A. !!! Prof Landyachts, Glass Fibre Course.....Thank you Prof!

But Paul the current world land speed record at over 1200kmh is held with solid aluminium wheels.
yes chook, but rubber only goes so fast.
I have read that the last REALLY high speed tyres were all hand made by Micky Thompson back when he was breaking records.
A lot of speed nuts bought his tyres , but eventually they had to ban them due to old age. the ally rims are due to the need to beat centripedal expension
meanwhile I have extended the experiments with the 20x3.0 fatti-O tyres.
I wasnt happy with the way they sat on a 20"x50mm rim so I sacrificed one of my rims to build a 20"x75mm rim .
here is the result
as you can see there was a slight loss of diameter and the tread profile flattened out
the trad is now 76mm compared to 67mm on the 50mm rim.
there is a slight improvement in lateral resistance
BUT as soon as the wheel lays over to 5 degrees it becomes obvious that the very thin sidewall will be exposed to anything that could cause a puncture.
given just how much the tube has to expand to suit this tyre I think the tube would explode and you would destroy the tyre in seconds. both Vic and I got these tyres on clearance, so I would assume that the bargain price we paid wont happen againand neither of us thought to order the special tubes( which cost more than the tyre!!!!!!). I fitted this tyre with 220x2.25tubes to get it to pump up.
I was unable to buy a tube in Australia! as none of the agents or importers had stock.

my conclusion is that the tyre on a 50mm rim would be a great wheel for the front of a cl 5 on soft sand or walyungup, but not worth the effort elsewhere
I wouldnt be putting them as a rear wheel anytime soon.
meanwhile my new sloop is all ready for glassing the inside ,if there is any resin left from my wheel building

Two weeks and have designed and tested two 26" wheels. (they are fantastic).
I had made some 26" fireglass wheels for a mate for his class 5.
but after seeing my new allow wheels. he has givin the fireglass wheels
back. so looks like I will be making some more allow wheels. (p.s. pretty cool
man hole covers). I even hit a rock on the beach. good test for wheel.

Having seen his style of building I would hazard a guess that all you see there is aluminium with stainless or monel fasteners and some non conductive grease at the fastenings.

That is the way I would do it using only home workshop gear and may I suggest a lot more easy-peasy than the way Paul is doing his.

Fibreglass is a great construction medium but for strength, accuracy and weight economy I would go with aluminium any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

VindisDad said...

Hi Cisco,
Yeah............but we proved that 'glass wheels faster by a substantial amount than same made in ally back in '87/'88. (20" wheels made for worlds at Lytham St Annes England)
There is a point to making them out of fibreglass!

Yep. If the experiment has been done and the point proven there can be no arguement. Certainly not from me. Cheers

Now here is another subject for discussion.
For my 10cents worth. We need to know the weight difference. The only reason I can think of for a velocity difference is Weight Disparity. Providing it is a given that all aspects other than materials is the same.
Ron