Hi Col,
Strongly suggest you go for at least 20mm bearings as minimum when going to 26" wheels - Vic has already broken an axle & I have heard that the french yachts used to regularly break their axles when they were mounted by axle bolt thread being on the inside.
!7mm axles would probably be worse risk than poor glass layup!

Have a go at making hub, as per my blurb on page 1 of this thread. You'll be surprised at how simple it is. You don't have to have the perfect press fit for the bearing - a good close fit will do & then when you fit the bearing merely wax it & put a good wipe of resin in the housing before assembly. If you do this with care after you have joined the wheel sides you can true the wheel up a bit further as well.

The 17mm spindles are from the motorbike wheels I'm currently using but they go through a long spindle tube on the axle mounts so the thread on the end is holding a nut in tension no shear forces - and made from high tensile stock. But I'm lucky that the airfield is 'active'... as an airfield and as a motorsport venue so fairly well maintained but I've had to go off road a few times to lose speed to let planes land and I'm surprised I haven't bent a spindle yet.
These wheels will be 'proof of concept' and the 2nd set are already sketched up as having 20mm spindles. Learning from the 'Test Bed' and trying hard to not make mistakes with the next one (Test Bed 2).
I'm glad you guys are here to help as so far I've not met anyone in the UK that's not going for 'over the counter' stuff. They've got to be out there though

Thanks Col

Col,
Keep in mind that Push Bike and Motor Bike Axles are designed about being suspended both ends Land-yachts on the other hand have their axles at one and placing a double load on that fixing angled wheels no doubt place other forces on that ens as well. Then you have the fact that High Tensile Axles either or they aren't (They Snap rather than bend) Hence we never used them in Hang Gliders as it was better to have a bent bolt then to have a broken one . That is why everyone is touting 20mm or better. Do you have access to a lathe? A heavy walled piece of Ally Pipe can be machined to suit your bearings ans the outside can be grooved and or Knurled then the process used on the rims is used during construction. At one point I was thinking of casting Allow Hubs specially for the purpose. WHY????? I think Paul used hubs of this style.
Ron

These spindles are normalised and tempered and run through Class IV fit thick wall spacers - they might be skinny but they've got all the help they can get. Ex engineer, ex race mechanic, no money, time and effort available Also helps having a Chief Metallurgist as a father They've survived been airborne at just short of 40mph (actually the landing afterwards) so they'll do till the new yacht and wheels appear with 20mm home engineered spindles!

Yep. Lathe in shed - knurling that dia will be tricky I was just going to get the mule skinner on them but I'm now thinking along Vics lines as we're looking at 52mm width across the rims. I'll get there.... and if I don't I'll try again

Cheers Col

The main reason that I stuck with the 5/8" axle was that the sulky hubs that I was using only took 40mm od bearings. Unfortunately up to now I have used the same bearings in all my wheels. But I have now obtained 40mm od x 3/4"id which will allow me to go to 3/4" axles and still use the same wheels.

The problem with breaking axles took a while to understand, what I found was that I had not allowed the axle thread to fit far enough into the axle retainer and the flexing of the axle worked on the thread section of the bolt.(allowing for the thread cut the axle was only 1/2" thick at that point).

I have now made my axle retainer longer so that the bolt has a hole that is 1"long at the dia. of the bolt before it enters the thread area,the pressure is now working on the bolt and not the thread. I have had no problems since doing this.But if I break another axle I will go straight to a 3/4".

Heart attack, Paul I had a look at those Fat Larry tires the must be made of gold or something $160 each to much for a poor pensioner


Cheers
Vic

These 26" wheels are made in California for Land Yachts

That looks like a fabulously hard flat beach.......
Yachts appear to have stiff masts & some look very light on the front end!

they are made by Frank Marsh for Air Track America.
They are intended for tires Surly 4.7.

Cheers
aus230

All ready thinking of how I would going about making one,3 rims to make one wheel. The tire price is scaring me off though the cheapest 4" tire that I can find so far is $70

OK Paul, I understand that.. Why, then is that a better method than turning a wheel center/hub out of Ally??
Ron

vic is in the situation where the bearing and shaft size is determined bythe availablity of a suitable sized ally from which to machine the housing.where-as with a resin/composite bearing housing YOU decide the bearing size to suit that you want , machine 1 nylon molding bush , and off you go. If the ally/glass combo if out in the mold thats that, in a composite mold you can rout the housing and rebuild it .
you could even have a big inner bearing and a tiny outer..................
If you had to pay for every ally wheel housing it could get expensive. keep in mind that vic has cut up his old wheels to salvage the housings for the next generation of wheels, whereas bill and I can just lay up another.
this would explain the pile of wheel experiments piled up in my shed AFTER the yachts have left for france. this weekend will be a flat 50mm/20" AND a little experiment to graft a 5speed derailuer hub into a flat50/20

desertyank said...

aus230 said...



These 26" wheels are made in California for Land Yachts

I did a bit of checking on these beauties and they are $350.00 per wheel so a set would cost $700.00 plus shipping. That's US $ and shipping from California.

One has to look at Land Yachting or any sport for that matter in a relative way. One can go down the local Tip and pick up a bunch of junk and build a Land Yacht which a lot do as their Wallets don't lead to a fortune, therefore for them it is a cheap sport.. But then again if I'd won the 70mil' the other night I could afford to go buy Green Bird and Land Yachting would be a cheap sport for me.. It is All Relative to the individual. Let us not get too hung up on Costs as we all tend to purchase that which we can afford.. Just because one can afford a Green Bird doesn't make them a better sailor, just a richer one.

The main thing with this forum is that no matter what we've written we should be there for each other when advice is needed. Our Credo should be to encourage and improve the sport for all to enjoy..
Ron
PS; As for the $70mil' I didn't win it but paradoxically I did win $70 Better'n a pock in the eye with a burnt stick, I guess.

Gizmo said...

Big fancy wheels look nice BUT please don't kill the sport by making it prohibitive either financially or technically for the average weekend sailor or newbie to the sport. Can we afford the idealistic dreams for some? Or restrict and put off newcomers to land sailing?

Just an observation, this forum has had very few new people discussing the sport since the conversation has turned to making your own wheels, and it also seems a few of the long time members are posting considerably less these days..... coincidence?

i have to completely disagree with you gizm.
last week we had 2 new members, from europe, who didnt just want to talk landyachts, they had built 4 beauties, 2 of them LLM's no less.
people use the forum differently.
members come and go as they build or as they sail , or want to improve their machines.
talking wheels and the relative cost of buying v's building is a topic that needs discussing. the high cost of doing this is one of the reasons,IMHO, that sailing stalled in Aus back in the early nineties. here we have a chance to revitalize things.
cols efforts in the UK are a great inspiration to me.
If you recall he basically got told , go buy a yacht, salvaged a wreck , got it sailing, and looking good( good enough to feature twice in the clubs new website), and now hes looking to tune up ,in the same budget way.
perhaps participation is down due to seasonal fluctuations like end of sailing season, , perhaps our small group of personal trolls are have a nap..
.....or only reading every post we put up.

WOW everyone seems so defensive.... I was only expressing an observation and a personal opinion.
I acknowledge your right to an opinion..... would only seem fair that mine is equally respected tho....I didnt come down in the last shower of rain and have seen things come and go before.

Well when I got into landsailing 20yrs ago I would have loved to have a something like this forum to tune into for this type of information. Information was scarce back then. I was lucky to befriend an experienced NZ landsailor to call for advice. Thank you 307.
I am blown away by the input that has been put on here, and I will always give back when I feel I have something worthwhile to contribute.
Wheels are a major performance factor for a landyacht, equally as important as sail size. Yes it is about time class5 set a standard, diameter and weight. Gismo you worry about the cost of wheels. Well the know-how is free and cheep on this site if you have the passion to do it. Class5 landsailing is a very cheep sport to get into, even on a international level if you don't mind getting your hands dirty. Look at what Paul Day has done for less than a couple grand and a lot of passion. Go Paul !!!! If you wanted to sail Blokart competitively even on a local level you would have to spend at least $6000 for all the gear. So I wouldn't knock the cost of $700 for a set of good wheels. If you cant afford it you now know how to make them yourself. It's better than sitting on the beach waiting for the wind to get over 10knts when you could be sailing in 5.