These look wheely good....is there a problem?

> 10 years ago
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aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
11 May 2012 11:39pm
Why did I go down the route of building a 26" wheel yacht? At the Pacrim at Lake Lefroy in 2006 I was looking for a yacht design that looked different and the New Zealand yacht appeared light years ahead in looks to the wheel barrow yachts, They also preformed very well.
So I had to make a choice. If I was going to build a class5 would I build to an old design (nothing wrong with them) or be challenged by building to the newest design available. In the end I decided that if I was going to build a yacht that was going to cost no more but would take a bit of thinking/ research and experimentation it would have to be the FISLY5 and built to the latest rules at that time.

I know people for some reason look at it and think it would take a lot to build but in reality it is a very simple yacht that just looks different. The body is the only part that there is not a mold floating around for but it can be made of ply(like a couple of French yachts) or an under-slung seat like crazy Travs yacht ( I built that seat in 3 hours)

Cheers
Vic




ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
12 May 2012 8:31am


Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
12 May 2012 9:20am
Nice to see you back AD. Where the Hell you been? Talk to us about that beast of yours.. A little feed back on it would be luverly.
Ron
ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
12 May 2012 11:32am
Sorry, have been bizy making a new set of wheels (26") for someone. he only had 18"wheels. (for his class 5). Had a good sail the other weekend. top speed of 86.4Km/hr. Was good to get back on the sand. My yacht is going very very well.
havent broken anything. (touch wood). Me and the family are looking at moving
to Aus. (QLD)(yes will be bring all my landyacht stuff).
Clemco
Clemco
430 posts
430 posts
12 May 2012 3:10pm
Sorry to hear you are leaving our shores AD. Yes your C5 has some pretty good speed. Left me for dead last time you were over this way. We will miss you.
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
12 May 2012 5:18pm
OK AD! so the Kiwi's lose is our gain by the sound of it, mind you you'd probably be better off (Land Yacht wise) in Western Australia Nice big Salt PAns to sail
Ron
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
12 May 2012 8:12pm
ADlandyachts said...






Wow, now that is an impressive piece of kit

What brand of sail is that? It looks custom made for you, is it? That sail looks about as good as it's possible for a sail to look... set absolutely perfectly
ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
13 May 2012 9:07am
Cheers boys. The sail is a windward sail. Made in Auckland NZ.
I was not happy with only 5 batterns in sail. I have had three more batterns put in and done some more tuning. It is going alot better. I have also made another carbon pod and two more y frames and one steering head. Also have made double landyacht. (have it up to 71km/hr with two up). Will try and find some photos.
ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
13 May 2012 9:15am
Sail with 8 batterns in.
Flying along with Clem at Raglan at about 85km/hr

ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
13 May 2012 9:22am
Double yacht with class 5 specs.

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
13 May 2012 10:03am
^^^^That is really impressive. So simple.
ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
13 May 2012 5:29pm
It just a double one of these.
And comes apart very easy. held together with two pins.


Chook2
Chook2
WA
1249 posts
WA, 1249 posts
13 May 2012 6:55pm
Gee there has been some thought go into that design.

I am impressed how it breaks down for transport. 10/10.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
13 May 2012 9:36pm
Andy, you make sure you bring all that stuff with you when you come across the trench.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
13 May 2012 8:04pm
my flat26/50 got a real work out today,due to a tacticak error i had to sail off through some 1m high srub and wash outs , whilst tacking then manaaged a series of boucing slides at over 80 , but the wheel just didnt seem to care, everybody who sailed the yacht commented on how nice it felt under load, and the tyre wear was noticably less when packing up.
I wonder if the narrower bearing spacing is allowing the wheel to track easier over uneven ground. this week my 20x3.0 tyres should arrive so I hope to whip up a flat20/50
meanwhile at the tip I found a 16" bike with alloy rims and shwinn16x2.5tyres!
$15 well spent and the rims are off to be welded to test a flat16/50
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
14 May 2012 7:07pm
When googling for tyres 2 weeks ago i came across some 20x3.0 tyres called electra fatty-o's.As they were on clearance for $17 I bought 2.
the theory I was testing was that a 20" flat20/50 rim would give me a wider tyre without increasing the diameter too much. I could then fit a wider wheel into my existing front fork without having to make a new fork.
as a comparison I put a maxxis20x2.25 on a 32 and a 50mm rim to see the difference. all the measurements were with 45psi pressure.
the result was that the 50mm rim had slightly less diameter(4mm) but an increase in width of 6mm. the significant difference was that the wider rim has a less rounded sidewall, and that resulted in a stiffer tyre that would work as a back wheel. vindisdad has dug out a 20" rim from his class5 used at the '87 worlds and tells me it was 75mm wide, and a 2.25, the widest available at the time fitted fine.
heres the 2 tyres together


the 20x3.0 tyres arrived today and i was busting to fit one and see the difference.
the result was that I definitely wont fit this baby into my front fork its a monster!!!!!!!. what was noticable was the lack of side resistance. this tyre will defintely need a 75mm rim if used as a rear tyre.






i reckon it would be a cracker front wheel on a 5 over the rough and soft of walyungup, but probably not a performance improver on lefroy on the front..... .
I think i will be saving this one for a bike project or put it away for the day when super-super minis come into their own.
.
. well
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
16 May 2012 6:41pm
Great thread so far, has almost given me (and a few others I suspect/hope) the courage to have a go at a set of wheels. Has anyone got an image showing (or can explain) how the wheel disks meet the rim prior to glassing in the rim? Does the disk fit the rim exactly, therefore leading to allignment?

P.S. Can I ask these same questions for the Bearing seats, are they added during disk layup or after (I would assume through an accurately drilled hole)?

Im still trying to wrap my head around the steps and processes of building these things
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
16 May 2012 6:07pm
the construction sequence ive been using gives you a self aligning wheeel.
accuracy of say +/_ 2mm/
the mold disk is flat with a central 10mm hole and the nylon plug which will create the bearing housing and hold the aluminium centre spacer also has a 10mm hole .
the outer rim of the mold has been marked with a scored groove and with the new flat mold I simply hammer in a small nail at each spot where the spokes will go.
these locations are checked before glassing commences.

heres the mold disk . I will take a photo for you with the nylon mold insert and nails fitted.
the sequence of bulding is to lay up a first disk , which is the removed from the mold and put aside, then lay up a second disk , with the ally centre spacer attached. whilst still wet, a film of resin/cotton flock mix is pasted onto one surface of the rim, and then the rim is added to the mold.
THEN the rim is glassed into place
next the spokes have glass/flock pasted on the 2 flat surfaces,and are placed in the mold, some extra glass/flock around where the spokes meet the hub, and then glass/flock on the top surface of the rim
the first disk that was layed up is then pressed onto the rim /hub layup , a board place d on top and the whole shebang clamped down,
walk away and have a beer.
my little brain has been thinking about how an old bearing could be used to make a mold for the wheel , meaming that a nylon bush wouldnt be needed, so that may be my next little experiment
colk2004
colk2004
317 posts
317 posts
16 May 2012 9:18pm
Keep these little tips coming. I've got my 12 rims arriving on Saturday courtesy of the missus' fathers ahem 'courier service'. 2 Kenda Flames and tubes in the post (Ebay was my friend £40 inc P+P for the pair(s)), 4 bearings, some spindle spacers, and hub tube should I chicken out of the cast bearing housings. Just negotiating with East Coast Fibreglass Supplies over costs for resin, CSM, Diolen cloth and most importantly post! Just doing GRP repairs at the mo' and knocking up a spot welding nozzle to locate in the trough between the rims to get the wleds spot on without doing my usual chasing of metal

Cheers Col
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
16 May 2012 11:54pm
Paul,
Isn't the Nylon Bushing a Pufteenth smaller than the Bearings that fit into the final Rim, To create a slight interference fit??

I would imagine that an old bearing thoroughly cleaned and waxed with Bees Wax would release relatively easily with a little heat?? No??

I just don't feel right using Glass/Resin as a bearing holder.. Why can't an Alloy Hub Be glassed in to give a snugger fit?? I know under hard conditions Alloy can hammer out of round so why not Glass chip and shatter??
Ron

PS; What is with the editing of p o o f as in "Up in a **** of smoke??
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
17 May 2012 10:45am
Its really down to personal choice. Both method's work. I use 50mm odx6mm wall thickness aluminum tube for mine, I have never(to date) had a problem with the hub separating from the fiberglass(the hub is contained by warping in glass that bonds to the disc's) Paul's method does not require any lathe work mine does.
Cheers
vic
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
17 May 2012 5:55pm
That's fair enough then aus230.. It is odd how a person can get something stuck in mind and can't leave go of it, like a dog with a tasty bone.

One of these days I will build up the courage to " 'av a go."
Ron
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
17 May 2012 9:36pm
Nikrum said...

Paul,
Isn't the Nylon Bushing a Pufteenth smaller than the Bearings that fit into the final Rim, To create a slight interference fit??

I would imagine that an old bearing thoroughly cleaned and waxed with Bees Wax would release relatively easily with a little heat?? No??

I just don't feel right using Glass/Resin as a bearing holder.. Why can't an Alloy Hub Be glassed in to give a snugger fit?? I know under hard conditions Alloy can hammer out of round so why not Glass chip and shatter??
Ron

PS; What is with the editing of p o o f as in "Up in a **** of smoke??

your quite right ron, however i have found thatone of my bushes gives a tighter fit than the other.the housings Im making now have a ring of small ccarbon peices arranged around it that doesnt shrink as much as the earlier versions. I suspect that with this layup you could get away with using a bearing, but you would still need some kind of turned bush behind it.
the reason i didnt go with vics ally hub is that I have experienced ally rims that have gradually flogged out over time. , and only having very limited access to ally the right spec to make the housing, keep in mind that vic is getting away with a smaller bearing than me.
like vics, my system is working so I will stick with it.
i have started a new wheel(flat16/50) so Im taking photos of EVERY step to post as a lesson

Chook2
Chook2
WA
1249 posts
WA, 1249 posts
18 May 2012 9:17pm
Im taking photos of EVERY step to post as a lesson


That is fantastic, as I'm struggling to get my head round it as well.

A "wheel making 101", will be a big hit.

I follow this with great interest.

PS. What size rims do I need to round up to have ready.

Thanks, Chook
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
19 May 2012 10:16am
And So It Should Be Hiko.. Information, I believe, Does not belong to anyone in particular. That is the problem today "Stuff you Jack. I'm OK!" If we share our knowledge then when it comes to REINVENTION it shouldn't need to happen as quite often the big RE' will only lead up a blind ally. Then again if I Have a Failed Idea you may come along and say "Hey! You didn't do this or that" and take the idea in a new direction. The Web is a big Knowledge Bank and who are we to Squirrel away what we know only to waste future time??
"PUT it out there".
Ron
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
19 May 2012 6:56pm
Nikrum said...

Paul,
Isn't the Nylon Bushing a Pufteenth smaller than the Bearings that fit into the final Rim, To create a slight interference fit??

I would imagine that an old bearing thoroughly cleaned and waxed with Bees Wax would release relatively easily with a little heat?? No??

I just don't feel right using Glass/Resin as a bearing holder.. Why can't an Alloy Hub Be glassed in to give a snugger fit?? I know under hard conditions Alloy can hammer out of round so why not Glass chip and shatter??
Ron

PS; What is with the editing of p o o f as in "Up in a **** of smoke??

Because the saying is actually "Up in a puff of smoke!", you p**f
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
20 May 2012 1:03am
Nikrums post from the Flat rim build thread

Brilliant Paul,
I would suggest that if you even Fart you should post a pic' as it may have an integral use in later models (You know what I mean!) Keep to sequence and follow Desert Yanks method of Pictorial Explanation. This then should have a direct Link Post-it-note at the head of the page.
So when is the Big Exit Day for you?? (Europe)
Ron



Just did a little shift to allow the build thread to form as intended, a simple to follow procedure free of any distractions. Any questions/comments/discussions can be done outside that thread (at least until its run its course)
ADlandyachts
ADlandyachts
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
20 May 2012 8:40am
I am having a go at making some new 26" wheels that hope will be a very easy way to build them.
these to discs had from allow tread plate (that i laying around). These instead of
making fibreglass discs. will put progress photos as I go. hope to have wheel finished in a week.


gibberjoe
gibberjoe
SA
956 posts
SA, 956 posts
20 May 2012 8:58am

So...NZ is minus two man hole covers? Hope it dosn't sink!
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
20 May 2012 9:49am
Thanks for that Lachy, in the future if I feel the need to remark on PAuls Wheel thread I will PM him.. I am a bit of a reactionary and go with my immediate urges and I am getting a bit long in the tooth for change..
Ron



lachlan3556 said...

Nikrums post from the Flat rim build thread

Brilliant Paul,
I would suggest that if you even Fart you should post a pic' as it may have an integral use in later models (You know what I mean!) Keep to sequence and follow Desert Yanks method of Pictorial Explanation. This then should have a direct Link Post-it-note at the head of the page.
So when is the Big Exit Day for you?? (Europe)
Ron



Just did a little shift to allow the build thread to form as intended, a simple to follow procedure free of any distractions. Any questions/comments/discussions can be done outside that thread (at least until its run its course)


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