Ron, it seems like I am living closer to that edge. I work on live 33kv power lines etc. Have forcefully removed the fingers of both hands (for some reason they sewed them back on so i could have another go ). Does Darwins theory take into account the remedial effects of surgery? I have "flown" a landyacht at least 9 mtrs in the air(not intentionally mind you)waking several hours later. My claim to fame is 5 seconds on the "Getaway" tv series sailing on two wheels whilst playing "oh when the saints" on a pocket trumpet at the same time.
Wayne

Sorry about this Blake (It was your Thread in the first place[}:)])

Testpilot1
[}:)][}:)] It looks like that and Miscreant Behavior goes with that name Wayne. I own it as a second half. Evidently Stat's has it that people with that name have a very large %% in the Criminal System. I guess we have been Astute in keeping our miscreant behavior below the Radar..
Ron WW

Bitten but only learned to be a little more careful. I could reiterate a couple of close goes I've had and all.

That pic of the plume from the top really shows what clem was saying some time ago about removing the rowlock and holding the boom across to get more efficiency out of the sail.

aus230 said...

I had an outing with the maxxis miracle front tyre, It sure held on a lot better than the hookworm, actuary griped so much that it tore my front end apart. Oh well back to the drawing board to add a bit of strength in this area.
Cheers
aus230

Wow What a gripper!!!

a couple more interesting photos...Plume With bike shock front and front spar attached at two points, one under the mast and one inside the body. The connection below the mast on this one and on the newest Airtracks, looks delicate, almost fragile. it is a little difficult to figure out where the solid connection is. Looks like very little resistance to side forces. I'm off this week so I will try to model the various frames I see in these photos.

I think you may be able to see part of the solid connection in the Grey plume that is laying on its side

Model of the Rocket type setup, about which I have tons of questions. Mostly, "whats the point of the extra complication?" On my boat at least, there is no adjustment and little suspension movement (at the base of the mast step) I would think there is more suspension from the bending of the aluminum front tube than from the tiny amount of vertical movement allowed by the 'U' shaped strap and rubber pad that locates the front tube. There would seem to be some isolation of the mast's twisting on the main frame from the steering. Maybe someone who talks to Bill and could ask what he had in mind (Unless it is a trade secret).



Also since you guys are a day ahead of us... Merry Christmas!

Picking up landsailers from the edges of my photos. I think I heard this style called "Glenn" at some point. I changed the front wheel to 16in bicycle, with bike style steering. The switch to 16 inch was to get the headset lower and make the front tubes hit the 'Y' in a way that looked right. The transparency worked this time on the seat, so you can see the chassis without me deleting the seat. From the 2010 worlds it looked like lots of people were using very similar Seagul sails and wheels. What an opportunity for comparing styles.
Blake


Ron,
I wish class 5 allowed carbon masts (and other tubes). They are commonly available and really cheap, at least used, thanks to all the sailboarders who have to have the newest stuff every year.

I've been researching the wheel building forums (AUS 230)...like someone commented "sounds easier than it probably is." has anyone built wheels without splitting the mountain bike rim? Wrapping the glass around the bead? were the original molds plaster?
I'm using the NZ sulky wheels and so far no problems (we usually don't run in really hot places in the summer, because it often isn't windy) their 26inch ones might work, but they aren't mountain bike 26, so tires are nearly impossible here.

Is my "Rocket" really a "Gecko?" (I'm one of the guys who got the ones going to the US.)

It was really interesting to read what led up to AUS 230's spectacular crash...being 10 inches too far back would really cause havoc; even a couple of inches makes a difference.

The more I read old forums the more I hope I'm not making you guys rehash old concepts.

My next project is to glass a headrest onto the Rocket/Gecko. My temporary, taped-on one made a huge difference in comfort; I think I sail better when I'm not fighting to hold my head up. That has been my only issue with the Rocket/Gecko--I got spoiled because the US fed 5 was so comfortable--maybe I can hang one of those seats under the Rocket/Gecko's frame there are yotts that use that body and I think I know who has the mold.

Landyacht, "the difference in a flying class 5 is incredible." do you mean the bike style front doesn't work when the yacht lifts a wheel? Or that it doesn't work going fast?
My Fed 5 had a 16 inch front wheel...worked fine; most of the Plumes, but not the Airtracks have small (16in) wheels too.
Blake

The 26"plug was made from plaster. The wheels are easy to make especially using the mountain bike rims tacked together. The main thing to watch is that the center bolt on
the gig is set square to the gig board and the edges of the disc are supported equally around the edges before gluing to the rim. I have used the centers out of my wrecked plastic wheels but maybe clem or hiko can post a plan of their centers

Merry Xmas to all

aus230

I agree with you AUS230 a locked Thread on Wheel Construction would be a great thing with lots of photos and diagrams etc. If you guys can make like we don't have a clew/clue.
Ron

Hiko,
We asked Bill and he told us they were "Rockets," I'll bet there is more history behind them than we, across the ocean, will ever know. I'm not sure I even want to know about "Mad Mike."
The style of steering thing has been an active discussion and fabrication project ever since the first Fed 5s were built here by S&R Marine. I think there have been a lot of incorrect conclusions drawn that have led people away from flop over style fronts.
It started when the original US Feds were built with flop over steering, but someone got it wrong, probably someone adjusted something to fix some issue and forgot about trail. They all came out of the "Factory" with a little lead, which nobody noticed in mild-condition testing (it was a well-proven design after all). They were then unleashed on the unsuspecting landsailing public at Ivanpah for a ridiculously cheap price..$1500 I think, all-up.(sarcastic there...they were anything but the unsuspecting public, centuries of combined sailing experience) They sold a bunch, and then the wind started to blow and the gymnastics began. They were absolutely diabolical on a fast reach. Once an oscillation began, it just got worse and worse until the powered-up spin started and people let go of the main sending the spin into a third dimension. About 1/4 of them changed hands at a discount that first week and flop over steering (and class 5 boats) got a bad name. Before I bought mine, most of the owners discovered the lead and bent or otherwise changed the angle of the forks getting close to zero trail. They were still twitchy at speed, but not undrivable (we also learned that sheeting out when things got wild just made them wilder--still hard not to do even knowing). So the Feds changed hands until most were owned by folks who liked or at least could deal with the exciting handling. The cut and weld that had adjusted the trail on mine failed spectacularly one and I ended up building a new front from parts. I read a lot about steering geometry, particularly in bicycles since I'm a cyclist and so much is published about that and built a new lay-over front, totally in the same concept as the original but with slightly different geometry. I settled on about 1/2 inch of trail, thinking that some trail would at least give the steering a slight self centering tendency. As far as I'm concerned it worked great. It didn't totally overcome all the less-attractive handling characteristics of a boat with very little weight on the front wheel, but I didn't feel like I was fighting it all the time on a reach (I found the less I drove, the more I just let it run, the faster it went--I was a happy camper).
Not everyone was so happy. I guy named Terry built a few bicycle-style fronts, darn similar to the set-up on my first landsailer on page one of this thread , and people put them on their Fed 5s. (picture below) Everyone who has done that swears by them and fully believes that getting rid or the flop-over steering is what caused the improvement. I'm skeptical. Terry builds a extremely solid product and got the geometry right, but in the spirit of "It is almost impossible to only change one thing," I think changes other than steering style were thrown into the mix. The whole set up is heavier and the front spar/strut/tube is a lot longer and has a bend, which makes if more flexible. I think most of the described steering improvement comes from those two things (weight and suspension)...it is so hard to know and without some really scientific test like the one Nikrum talks about with the racing wheelchairs (oops it was Gizmo). It is really frustrating not to have either the sailing time, the design time or the engineering background to really test this stuff beyond "seat of the pants" impressions. Plus, a better sailor often beats a faster boat, which distorts the whole already complicated equation. Sorry this turned into kind of a rant.
Blake

With aeach of my yachts - LLM, both Promo's & the three seater I have found that judicial use of body weight(sliding body forward/backward and side to side) turning becomes easier. Some times witn my LLM i actually have to sit up to get enough weight onto my front wheel, if it is blowing real hard on salt.

a couple of Duncan Harrison shots from Belgium...Dave Gluek,
Rocket class 5. These are stills from HD video. The camera is duct taped to the base of the mast.

Francoise Papon also sent me the same, it is the first version of the devil yacht, I built mine close to the plans but also carried over some of the NZ yachts ideas that I liked on my first class5
Cheers
aus230