Its obvious now looking at other country's and how they are moving forwards and reopening, that if you dont have the jab and your health pass you wont be able to fly, go to bands or festivals, NYE party's, footy/cricket games, RSL/Bowls clubs, old age homes, restaurants, well.... anywhere really that there is groups of people.
But that might suit most antvaxers/conspiracy types.......think they like being home alone all day searching on the internet for fake news.

They should also have the few antivax crew to have a card saying that they have chosen NOT to have the jab.
So if it came to the doctors decision, if there was only one bed left in ICU and there was 2 people needing it, one after an accident and one who has covid and chose not to get the jab, the doctor could give the bed to the person who had the accident, not the antivaxer.
Would only be fair and the antivaxer should sign a form agreeing to being last to receive medical treatment if they become ill from covid, as this is their decision.

Interesting vid Gboots. Gives you lots to think about!
Interesting what he says about Ivermectin. The Moderna vaccine has 5 times the dose of Pfizer!
He sort of skips people between 18 and 75. Just says its a bit vague in the middle.
At one brief point he does say its highly effective at keeping people out of hospital.
Not saying its not real but thats exactly the sort of thing I am dubious about on the Internet. Bad sound, weird background noise. Dodgy pic with delays in the sound.
I would want to do a lot of research into things he is saying before just believing it is real.
But yes I believe we are controlled by the Internet, big pharma companies etc.
There is no way my wife and I have intention of vaccinating our girls,12 and 15.
I would say in France we were given pretty good warning about possible side effects. It is optional. You just won't be able to do much if you are not vaccinated.
I would say most people I know are vaccinated now. Most didn't have side effects, Yet! Only time will tell.

psychojoe said..

Macroscien said..

Gboots said..
and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

I don't want to carry or spread bad news , but probably we don't need to wait another 20 years to learn about side effects of mRNA vaccine...benefit vs risk balance may not be then such obvious as now proclaimed. For example moderately pulmonary problems vs long term /chronic autoimmune muscle inflammation ( heart including) can be only statistically evaluated in the years to come..

Anyway in this moment in time that is not science vs virus but rather social engineering vs epidemic.Vaccination is promoted not because people are dying but because hospitals are overloaded, and medical system could not cope, quarantine system doesn't work, mask on other protection not applied.Vaccination may sees like panaceum for all those social problems, much easier to apply then proper social engineered structure and structures. My long term vision for healthy society is avoidance of all microbial life entirely. But obviously could be applied only to newly created human colonies in outer space ( outside Earth future colonies -where all humans and animal, plants could be kept completely free of bacteria and viruses.

You'll be making a rather antisocial planet, Macro. Microbe deprived mice lacked social capacity but it became normal after normalisation of the gut microbiome.

Agreed. I think humans need bacteria don't they?

Maybe we could send all the anti vaxers and un vaccinated to a large island somewhere.
We just need to find a big island where most of the population aren't vaccinated yet.

tarquin1 said..
...You just won't be able to do much if you are not vaccinated....

This point keeps being made.

But why would it be true ? Is there any other vaccine for which the unvaccinated are banned from doing something ?

Yellow Fever is the only one I can think of, and that is a not quite the same "unvaccinated exclusion" as what is being suggested.

Vaccines in Australia are recorded through the National Immunisation Program. Kids get a little card in a book thingy when they are born and every vaccine recommended and administered is recorded. So record keeping of vaccine administration is nothing new. Some register of who has had Covid vax seems nothing from the normal, especially if it is all run through the same NIP.

But - a quick check shows that by the time a kid is four they should have had around 40 vaccines (some are combined and some are boosters, but still 40 different vaccines).

I'd suggest few diseases and virus' on that list are worse than Covid-19. You can argue about what is worse but I'm not sure many could be called more pleasant.

Yet nobody is excluded from anything if they aren't vaccinated. So why would this vaccine, to prevent a disease that is no worse than some others, be treated differently ?

www.health.gov.au/health-topics/immunisation/immunisation-throughout-life/national-immunisation-program-schedule

Ian K said..

Buster fin said..
According to ABC news this arvo, one in every 529 USAmericans has died from Covid.
They are a big bodied nation, to be fair.

Well if the average lifespan of an American is about 80 you're going to have to lose about 7 in 529 each year anyway. What did the other 6 die of?

Heart disease and Cancer were numbers 1 and 2 for deaths in USA 2020, Covid was third (counting Covid as contributing cause of death, but not counting cases where Covid was only an underlying factor) Preliminary data from CDC

But for some reason, there are people who don't trust these sources of data.

Wonder who they trust?

And while I am on it ... this as well.

Front page news at ABC at the moment :

Sydney aged care COVID-19 outbreak spreads, three residents test positive
The daughter of an elderly man who tested positive for COVID-19 in a Sydney aged care home says unvaccinated staff who brought the virus in are "a disgrace".
The three people are aged in their 80s and 90s.While all had been given COVID-19 jabs, the same cannot be said for the staff

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-04/nsw-covid-19-aged-care-outbreak-spreads-three-infected/100266238


The vaccine doesn't stop you catching, carrying or passing on a virus.

It just means you already have antibodies in your system before you catch it. So your body fights the virus from the start and your symptoms are less (or zero). You would also potentially carry the virus for less time, but this story appears to be today's shock-jock news from all media outlets.

"Its the governments fault the workers were unvaccinated and if they had been vaccinated they wouldn't have passed covid on".

Both points are 100% bollocks. But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

The point that society should have those multiple choices open:
1. Astra
or 2. Pfizer
or even another bunch of vaccines
or nothing at all.
Ideally equally spread
In the case of mishap (unintended consequences of experimental vaccines - or any other medication at all ) the
part of population could be spared to allow, humanity persist, regrow.
In the case we apply something lethal after years to absolute majority , we could simply extinguish whole human race.
I am not saying that mRNA is lethal, but it is too early to say what will be side effect in 10 years, even now applying every year booster ritual. so the best we could do is minimize the risk by multiple methods and vaccines from different manufactures.What is Chinese Vac and similar older technology vaccines are only 50% effective , but without long term side effects , but mRNA kill all in 10 years from now? Or vice verse?

tarquin1 said..
Maybe we could send all the anti vaxers and un vaccinated to a large island somewhere.
We just need to find a big island where most of the population aren't vaccinated yet.

Hey! I see where you are going with that but Europe is not an island

Madagascar?

I sort of agree. Send the antivaxxers to a remote city in the middle of Aus somewhere. Leave them there with their non-vaccines and have international travel opened up to that location. They will be immune in time and be free to have a Covid passport.

Carantoc said..
....
The vaccine doesn't stop you catching, carrying or passing on a virus.

It just means you already have antibodies in your system before you catch it. So your body fights the virus from the start and your symptoms are less (or zero). You would also potentially carry the virus for less time, but this story appears to be today's shock-jock news from all media outlets.
.

Would you agree that if you show no symptoms from the virus, i.e.no coughing or sneezing, that your chances of passing it on are almost zero?

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

Macroscien said..

Gboots said..
and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

I don't want to carry or spread bad news , but probably we don't need to wait another 20 years to learn about side effects of mRNA vaccine...benefit vs risk balance may not be then such obvious as now proclaimed. For example moderately pulmonary problems vs long term /chronic autoimmune muscle inflammation ( heart including) can be only statistically evaluated in the years to come..

Anyway in this moment in time that is not science vs virus but rather social engineering vs epidemic.Vaccination is promoted not because people are dying but because hospitals are overloaded, and medical system could not cope, quarantine system doesn't work, mask on other protection not applied.Vaccination may sees like panaceum for all those social problems, much easier to apply then proper social engineered structure and structures. My long term vision for healthy society is avoidance of all microbial life entirely. But obviously could be applied only to newly created human colonies in outer space ( outside Earth future colonies -where all humans and animal, plants could be kept completely free of bacteria and viruses.

You'll be making a rather antisocial planet, Macro. Microbe deprived mice lacked social capacity but it became normal after normalisation of the gut microbiome.

Agreed. I think humans need bacteria don't they?

possibly the only bacteria humans needs is mitochondria that is already assimilated into our human genome. All he rest could go finishing.Obviously in other sterile worlds, not here on dirty Earth , when one bacteria is good because protect you from another that is bad.So they do kill each other.By analogy possibly world could be free of armed forces if only nations stop attacking each other. Get rid of police forces when people stop doing violent crimes.

Are you sure about that? I think a simple google search will tell you otherwise. We have evolved with bacteria and we seem to rely on them and some rely solely on us too.

fine, I challenge you now to find a single example where bacteria is needed for human to live,
and we all going to die when this bacteria goes on the strike, doesn't provide us anymore.
Google that !

Mr Milk said..
Lactobacillus
Try to live without cheese

actually you are interested in the product - cheese- not the the bacteria itself.
same we could say about beer- product seems to be nice,, but the "bacteria" that did it may go fishing after job well made.
bread - could be made by yeast but few chemicals could do the sponge as well

yep, one may say that human life without beer is impossible, but that is no longer true too ...



www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0740002017302952

Sorry to talk about the vaccine again. If the Moderna is 5 times stronger. Does that mean its telling your body to make 5 times more spike protein than the Pfizer?

Unless you live in a cold climate And leave it outside ?????

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

Macroscien said..

Gboots said..
and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

I don't want to carry or spread bad news , but probably we don't need to wait another 20 years to learn about side effects of mRNA vaccine...benefit vs risk balance may not be then such obvious as now proclaimed. For example moderately pulmonary problems vs long term /chronic autoimmune muscle inflammation ( heart including) can be only statistically evaluated in the years to come..

Anyway in this moment in time that is not science vs virus but rather social engineering vs epidemic.Vaccination is promoted not because people are dying but because hospitals are overloaded, and medical system could not cope, quarantine system doesn't work, mask on other protection not applied.Vaccination may sees like panaceum for all those social problems, much easier to apply then proper social engineered structure and structures. My long term vision for healthy society is avoidance of all microbial life entirely. But obviously could be applied only to newly created human colonies in outer space ( outside Earth future colonies -where all humans and animal, plants could be kept completely free of bacteria and viruses.

You'll be making a rather antisocial planet, Macro. Microbe deprived mice lacked social capacity but it became normal after normalisation of the gut microbiome.

Agreed. I think humans need bacteria don't they?

possibly the only bacteria humans needs is mitochondria that is already assimilated into our human genome. All he rest could go finishing.Obviously in other sterile worlds, not here on dirty Earth , when one bacteria is good because protect you from another that is bad.So they do kill each other.By analogy possibly world could be free of armed forces if only nations stop attacking each other. Get rid of police forces when people stop doing violent crimes.

Are you sure about that? I think a simple google search will tell you otherwise. We have evolved with bacteria and we seem to rely on them and some rely solely on us too.

fine, I challenge you now to find a single example where bacteria is needed for human to live,
and we all going to die when this bacteria goes on the strike, doesn't provide us anymore.
Google that !

You are going off on a tangent, but here on earth we live with bacteria. There seems to be an interaction with bacteria and our body that has evolved and allowed us to eat a lot of things that otherwise might be a problem for us.

Sure, I am sure a bacteria free person can live somewhere, fed fluids via a tube and protected from anything in the environment. Sounds wonderful and something we should aspire to.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3337124/#:~:text=The%20gut%20microbiota%20that%20resides,dysregulation%2C%20leading%20to%20autoimmune%20disorders.