airsail said..

stoff said..
I'm not convinced we need the vaccine for everyone. The virus is behaving exactly as was predicted.
More contagious but less deadly strains are taking over.
Original strain had 1.9% mortality while delta is only 0.3%.Vaccinate the vulnerable and let it go.

Agree in the idea of opening up and let it run, once the ?% are vaccinated. What that % is no one knows, maybe around 60-70% once you remove children and antivax from the equation. There are already comments from those vaccinated as to why they need locking down and masks, increased pressure will be applied to the politicians to not lock down in the future as the vaccination rate increases.

ICU won't be over run with cases, children tend not to need ICU so it will only be the antivax needing it.

ICUs will then be free to be over run with regular seasonal flu cases as has been the case for decades.

Mr Milk said..
Where does that lower mortality rate come from? Doing a bit of Googling I can't find death rates, but plenty of claims that it produces more severe disease
eg

n the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention upgraded the Delta variant[/u] to a "variant of concern" earlier this week because of its increased transmissibility. New research suggested that the variant nearly doubles the risk of hospitalization compared to the previously dominant strain in the U.K.

Where are the claims that delta is more severe?
All that says is that more people are getting hospitalised, which is to be expected as it's more contagious.
The difference is they aren't dying at anywhere near the same rate.
The spin doctors will tell you it's because of the vaccines but this is being disingenuous as the numbers don't lie.
Look at the US (original strain) 1864 deaths per million vs India (delta) 287 deaths per million.

stoff said..

Mr Milk said..
Where does that lower mortality rate come from? Doing a bit of Googling I can't find death rates, but plenty of claims that it produces more severe disease
eg

n the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention upgraded the Delta variant[/u] to a "variant of concern" earlier this week because of its increased transmissibility. New research suggested that the variant nearly doubles the risk of hospitalization compared to the previously dominant strain in the U.K.

Where are the claims that delta is more severe?
All that says is that more people are getting hospitalised, which is to be expected as it's more contagious.
The difference is they aren't dying at anywhere near the same rate.
The spin doctors will tell you it's because of the vaccines but this is being disingenuous as the numbers don't lie.
Look at the US (original strain) 1864 deaths per million vs India (delta) 287 deaths per million.

If this is correct, does having one strain prevent you from catching the other strain, or does the first strain somehow get displaced because people are being treated for the more contagious version and therefore don't catch it?

I think for all of us no here to be safe and not to be feed all this wrong information, Laurie should only let people post who have had their jab and can show their health pass.

Can't quote any figures at all, but have just heard that Japan donated heaps of (unwanted) AZ stockpiles to Taiwan ( as China has limited the supply) and they have had lots of problems/deaths due to blood clots. Seems like that kind of news doesn't flow to Australia 'for some reason'.
If anyone can shed more light on that, I'd be very interested to hear it.

France donate about 500 000 doses of Astra Zeneca to Africa. Senegal I think.

Ian K said..

Buster fin said..
Can't quote any figures at all, but have just heard that Japan donated heaps of (unwanted) AZ stockpiles to Taiwan ( as China has limited the supply) and they have had lots of problems/deaths due to blood clots. Seems like that kind of news doesn't flow to Australia 'for some reason'.
If anyone can shed more light on that, I'd be very interested to hear it.

Why else would Japan have excess stocks? They are not far from the bottom on vaccination percentages. Put all their eggs in the wrong basket as well maybe?

Whoop, whoop!!!

Front of the queue baby!!! just look at all of those countries behind us... starting with New Zealand...

japie said..
There are. They are cheaper and demonstrably more effective and have been proven to have a remarkable safety record. The vaccines have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of people.

That's devastating! Have you got a source for that information?

FormulaNova said..

japie said..
There are. They are cheaper and demonstrably more effective and have been proven to have a remarkable safety record. The vaccines have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of people.

That's devastating! Have you got a source for that information?

www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-30th-june-2021

stoff said..

Mr Milk said..
Where does that lower mortality rate come from? Doing a bit of Googling I can't find death rates, but plenty of claims that it produces more severe disease
eg

n the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention upgraded the Delta variant[/u] to a "variant of concern" earlier this week because of its increased transmissibility. New research suggested that the variant nearly doubles the risk of hospitalization compared to the previously dominant strain in the U.K.

Where are the claims that delta is more severe?
All that says is that more people are getting hospitalised, which is to be expected as it's more contagious.
The difference is they aren't dying at anywhere near the same rate.
The spin doctors will tell you it's because of the vaccines but this is being disingenuous as the numbers don't lie.
Look at the US (original strain) 1864 deaths per million vs India (delta) 287 deaths per million.

I was just reading something on this that says that just because something is less deadly but is more contagious doesn't mean that it is less of a problem. It makes sense if you think about it. If something has half the mortality rate but spreads to 3 times the number of people, then the overall death rate is higher.

The idea that a virus becomes less deadly as it becomes more contagious is an appealing one, but it seems that this is not always the case, and is affected by a lot of factors.

I think the one thing about this pandemic is that we won't know the outcome before it happens, and anyone that says they predicted it is just guessing.

Ian K said..

FormulaNova said..

I think the one thing about this pandemic is that we won't know the outcome before it happens, and anyone that says they predicted it is just guessing.

The details are unknown but the big picture heading forward is that this time next year we'll all be back into our planet-trashing lifestyles as if nothing happened.

Some already are www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-01/wa-premier-angry-at-overseas-travellers-taking-european-holidays/100258744

They'll possibly be making your annual flu shot a cocktail but but other than that?

There was a guy in my cycling group that decided to go to Sweden and the UK for his daughter's 16th birthday. Hardly a good reason, but he has dual nationality so they couldn't stop him. I wonder if he decided to come back or stayed there.

It would take a fair bit of effort though by the sounds of it. I thought even getting flights was meant to be a challenge from some locations.

Reading up on the European experience, it sounds like having a vaccination passport is the only realistic way for people to travel. This also includes having previously had Covid, so presumably they need a recent test to test for antibodies. So even the unvaccinated can travel, they just have to have had Covid first, recently enough to have antibodies.

You can train to be a better windsurfer by practicing. Often.

You can train to lift heavy things by going to the gym.

You can train your brain to better at problem solving by repetition.

You can train your immune system to recognise things that ought not be there.

Jeepers, you can even train your dog to sit, stay, rollover, your parrot to talk, your horse to walk funny, your cat to. um. forget that one.

I'm sure I had a point, but I got distracted looking at stupid cat videos.

Pugwash said..
You can train to be a better windsurfer by practicing. Often.

You can train to lift heavy things by going to the gym.

You can train your brain to better at problem solving by repetition.

You can train your immune system to recognise things that ought not be there.

Jeepers, you can even train your dog to sit, stay, rollover, your parrot to talk, your horse to walk funny, your cat to. um. forget that one.

I'm sure I had a point, but I got distracted looking at stupid cat videos.

One of the mums at the school trained her cat to use the toilet, just can't flush it.

From the mRNA inventor .
Long but definitely worth a listen



news.yahoo.com/amphtml/single-most-qualified-mrna-expert-173600060.html

"Young adults in the prime of their lives are being forced to take the vaccine because Tony Fauci said that," he said, contending Malone's expertise makes him "the single most qualified" person to share information about the technology and warrants him "a right to speak."Malone clarified that he was not discouraging the use of the vaccine but was providing people with as much fair information as he could about their risks."This is a fundamental right having to do with clinical research ethics," he said. "And so, my concern is that I know that there are risks. But we don't have access to the data, and the data haven't been captured rigorously enough so that we can accurately assess those risks - and therefore . we don't really have the information that we need to make a reasonable decision."That's one of my other objections, is that we toss about these words, risk-benefit analysis, casually as if it's a very deep science. It's not. Normally, at this stage, the CDC [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] would have performed those risk-benefit analyses. They would be data-based and science-based. They're not right now," Malone said.Malone also said he has "a bias that the benefits probably don't outweigh the risks" for younger people who are being encouraged or required to take the vaccine."I can say that the risk-benefit ratio for those 18 and below doesn't justify vaccines, and there's a pretty good chance that it doesn't justify vaccination in these very young adults," he added.Malone discovered in-vitro and in-vivo RNA transfection when he was at the Salk Institute in 1988, and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

Buster fin said..
According to ABC news this arvo, one in every 529 USAmericans has died from Covid.
They are a big bodied nation, to be fair.

On those numbers, you'd have to guess that, on average, each American knows (knew?) two or three people who have died from Covid.