Well put. For me off the Porch is windsup
technique aside, on the snow is on the snow. Maybe even a kids saucer.

I think if you're rich and live where there is flat water deep enough, go for it.

For me the only flat water i sail in isn't deep enough so i bought a Raceboard, and i can sail back as long as the wind has a direction and there are ripples on the water, i personally think the new Windsurfer LT is a better option than a foil.

But i wouldn't say no to having a go if someone offered.

Grantmac said..

turns can be carved without losing energy.

Decades of striving to perfect energy conservation gone to waste! Turning a slapper requires more attention to fore and aft trim than turning a foil board. (Not that I can do it yet, I'm in theory mode). If trim is too far rearward or forward for a fraction of a second at any of a dozen stages during a slapper gybe, that's 2 to 3 knots lost never to be regained. It all adds up, you exit at a dribble wondering where exactly you went wrong.

Trim too far back on a foil, you rise, converting kinetic energy to potential energy, realising your mistake you trim forward and get it all back again. Too easy

P.C_simpson said..
I think if you're rich and live where there is flat water deep enough, go for it.

For me the only flat water i sail in isn't deep enough so i bought a Raceboard, and i can sail back as long as the wind has a direction and there are ripples on the water, i personally think the new Windsurfer LT is a better option than a foil.

But i wouldn't say no to having a go if someone offered.

You definitely need to try a foil

A foil is far cheaper than a bigger rig, LT, etc.
Especially with foils designed for powerbox boards of normal widths.

RichardG said..
I think foiling has potential and is fun but so far sadly we have not seen the development of foil racing in sailing clubs in WA. That is a concern and like kite foiling racing seems to be a minority pursuing it. If you are into racing every week in course racing fleets LT is more accessible and popular and has the only one design fleet of size. Foiling is not cheaper than the LT nor is it always functional to foil in lightwinds in my opinion when you are better off on a raceboard or LT. There are so many windsurfing options outside foiling during a good seabreeze many like to go wavesailing when they can or go for a blast on the water.

Fair enough but many people would find sailing an LT in lightwind as boring as bat ****. Seriously you can buy an alloy foil fit it to an old board well for under the price of an LT

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Fair enough but many people would find sailing an LT in lightwind as boring as bat ****. Seriously you can buy an alloy foil fit it to an old board well for under the price of an LT

RichardG said..
I think foiling has potential and is fun but so far sadly we have not seen the development of foil racing in sailing clubs in WA. That is a concern and like kite foiling racing seems to be a minority pursuing it. If you are into racing every week in course racing fleets LT is more accessible and popular and has the only one design fleet of size. Foiling is not cheaper than the LT nor is it always functional to foil in lightwinds in my opinion when you are better off on a raceboard or LT. There are so many windsurfing options outside foiling during a good seabreeze many like to go wavesailing when they can or go for a blast on the water.

Fair enough but many people would find sailing an LT in lightwind as boring as bat ****. Seriously you can buy an alloy foil fit it to an old board well for under the price of an LT

Many prefer to race in competitive fleets than to muck around with alloy gear as you say. In one design classes speed is relative. Many people find the up and down of repetitive sailing, without racing, boring too and many people would rather kitefoil than windsurf too. That doesn't mean either is bad. Whatever floats your boat I guess. I just don't see foiling being the panacea of any sailing class yet. A case in point will be to compare fleet sizes at the Adelaide LT nationals coming up in Jan. to the foiling nationals in Qld. around the same time.

The Wazsp class seems to be going gang busters

The wasp costs about $16000 AUS

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
The wasp costs about $16000 AUS

Relatively cheap to a new foiling Moth.

The foiling moths are in a league of their own.l have never sailed one, & it takes a long time to master a craft like that.Windfoiling is relatively cheap compared to them.

A fairer comparison would be to give it a year or to since the LT has been around for 3 years or so and the Olympic foil class has only been announced. You keep banging on about a cheap foiling one design class, it's never going to be super cheap because of the amount of carbon involved I'm making the foils. Yes you May have sold 300 plus LT,s but how many are actively racing ??, only got 22 or so for the SA states

Is there any chance you guys can read this threads heading please. Like some of the other interesting threads this one has descended into a Foiling versus LT debate.
Please start your own thread if you want to keep that debate going.

Once again Andy, great thread and good to read so many interesting perspectives.

Paducah said.


On a foil, it's about 15-25 knots lost that are never regained.

With a foil, a planing jibe is a jibe you messed up.

15 -25kts faster than this? We can't all be in your league, Antoine.

Not sure how the LT has made windsurfing a richer experience? It's a slightly re-imagined 40+ year old concept that is cheap and has attracted a lot of older windsurfers back to the sport. And fair play, that's great and more power to those who sail it but I dare say that a vast majority of people who foil have absolutely zero interest in sailing an LT. On the racing side of things, I personally race a windfoil because it's highly, technical in tuning terms, both foil and rig, requires a high degree of skill to be and the front of the fleet, is extremely fast and a large weight range can be competitive . A windfoil is very similar in speed to a moth, in some conditions they are faster, in some conditions we are faster, both are much faster than a wazp (which has alloy foils btw).

Still with racing, i'd also suggest that most people can jump on an LT and be semi competitive in racing terms. Yeah you're always going to have the outliers at the front but most could jump on and have some good racing. This doesn't necessarily apply to windfoiling but that's just the nature of high speed, highly technical classes...and maybe that puts some people off. Most of us in the Australian fleet thought we had it pretty sussed before the last Aus nationals....then the NZ'rs turned up and absolutely schooled us, it lifts everyone's game. Make no mistake though a casual free-racer who rocks up to the nationals etc will probably get lapped in a 20 min two lap race, the speed differential can be that high.

All that racing BS aside foil has just given a whole new avenue to the sport. I can foil from 6 kts, I come from a hardcore wave and freestyle background (both I still do) so previously I really only sailed if it was > 16kts. It's opened up a whole other world to those who weren't content to float around on raceboards/LT's etc when the wind didn't play the game. Foil in the waves, race foil, etc etc, lots of options, fairly cheap if you don't go down the racefoil path and buckets of fun. I would suggest that people who are so negative about it haven't actually ever tried it.

RichardG said..

Belly25 said..Then start your own thread asking if the LT has saved our sport or ruined it.
I may be wrong but I feel etiquette would dictate that you at least try and address the question stated in the thread title rather than banging on about how incredible the LT is. 9 references to the LT in your previous post comes across a bit heavy.

RichardG said..

Belly25 said..
Is there any chance you guys can read this threads heading please. Like some of the other interesting threads this one has descended into a Foiling versus LT debate.
Please start your own thread if you want to keep that debate going.

Once again Andy, great thread and good to read so many interesting perspectives.

The title of this thread does not limit the debate over whether or not foiling has ruined windsurfing. In my opinion foiling has not ruined windsurfing but made it a richer experience as has the LT.

Then start your own thread asking if the LT has saved our sport or ruined it.
I may be wrong but I feel etiquette would dictate that you at least try and address the question stated in the thread title rather than banging on about how incredible the LT is. 9 references to the LT in your previous post comes across a bit heavy.

I guess I could start a thread to that effect but there is no compulsion to do so. I don't think anyone is compelled to post nor are they constrained in the way they answer or respond to a thread as long as it relates to and is relevant to the subject matter as was my original post. This is a general topic in the general section so I am surprised by the impassioned reply from others. Thanks.

I give up

olskool said..
RichardG, The LT already has a 23 page thread in the general forum. RB or LT? Id choose the RB any day over LT.
FOILIN LOOKS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING. Another avenue to explore. Dont see many here at GB though.

I don't think foiling has ruined windsurfing. I have, among other windsurfing craft, two raceboards, a foiling set up and an unspeakable board the latter of which is the only "raceboard" in WA with active weekly club racing fleets. All are great and I don't disagree. I think foiling is still rising and I agree its different. I just don't see it as being the best thing yet but it is certainly a great development.