I have a major issue with the fact that the instructor base now take up the entire area along the water launching section making it near impossible to get out without having a near call with someone slamming their kite into the water less than 5 meters from you.

Surely we need some point where people can actually get out without having to worry about endangering their lives. I have no issue with the instructors (other than one who told off a mate of mine for riding out between two beginners where there was no where else to get out!) but I have a major issue when the instructors think they own the entire section of water at St Kilda and it doesn't allow people to launch and land.

koma said...

The issue is that the instructing area is upwind of the launch/land zone for the main beach. It's fair enough that instructors want to give their students as much downwind room to get the most out of their lessons, but i do agree it's become an issue when it's a challenge to get out through the gauntlet of bodydragging semi-out-of-control students.

I had an issue where after a rather crappy session i came in quite exhausted and wasn't paying attention to the 50m upwind/behind me and was almost collected by a a kamikaze bodydragger. The instructor then had the nerve to have a go at me for not getting out of his students way. In general i would agree, but when you let a student do a 50m kamikaze bodydrag and expect everyone else to just clear out of their way - i object. I don't have eyes in the back of my head.

The only thing i can suggest is that if you walk out to the sand spit just upwind of where the instructors usually are then you can go upwind of them and get out past them with minimal issues.

On Saturday they had the whole area covered from top to bottom. You couldn't even get out above them. Even at the top point of the spit where the kiddies pond started, they had two guys instructing. The top part of the spit should be out of bounds for instructors so people have space to launch and land. I'm pretty sure thats how the KBV had it in the old days.

superlizard said...

yeah that's boolsh1t...

me thinks the only way to fix all these issues , and there is more of them as more people keep joining the sport , is to form clubs at each major beach, and have club set some fair rules and regulations...

I thought that was what KBV did?

Is there a limit to how many instructors each school can have on the beach or is it a case of one school license = unlimited instructor licenses?

Perhaps it would be best to get one/some of the head instructors running the schools to comment on this. After all - we're not really wanting to just piss and moan all day long, we'd like to fix the problem for all kiters and beach users.

Kite Republic?
Katani?
GoKite?

Any other schools now teaching down there or is that it?

harry potter said...

It seems like there is a new one setting up each time I go past, there are 4 or 5 of those mini caravan things previous years maybe only one or two.

I've noticed that as well... but i was certain that the council governing the area had restricted the number of permits it was willing to offer for kite schools.
Not quite sure how they keep multiplying...

Don't go there. Problem solved!

Why do they need a beach and shallow water for learning though? They've got life jackets, so chuck them in a boat take them out into the bay somewhere and they could have plenty of room to learn. I'm pretty sure there's a group who do that in botany bay.

Harumaki said...

Saffer said...
Why Should 100 kiters submit to 10 people trying to learn? Surely the 10 can submit slightly, or enough to leave room so that the 100 can launch and land safely? Also, what about beginners who aren't doing lessons? Are they supposed to launch right at the bottom leaving themselves all of 20 metres before they have to walk up the beach? That doesn't make sense either!

When you learnt to kite I am sure you would have been aware of the more experienced lot and appreciated some clear space where you could learn without having to worry about them as well. Lets give the noobs a break and show them that we are a considerate bunch - i am fully supportive of getting the kiting schools to be more aware of the situation and seeing if there is a compromise - however as BMAC says problem is solved in the availlability of other locations - if you insist on the convenience of St Kilda then you have to tolerate that it is Melbourne's only true learning beach too!!!!

Mate you are full of it, sorry there is no such thing as a LEARNING BEACH!
The beach is where mad and crazy dollar hungry kite destructors teach people how to behave badly with kites.
The only place to learn to kite is in the water get them in boats like the guys in Sydney do.
its all about money down in melbourne and someone is going to get hurt then there will be bans.

Reducing the number of people that can be taught at one time can cause other issues in whyalla we are limited on how much room we have and the instructor tries to stay up wind of the main kitting zone but with only one instructor there is 4 or 5 other learners that have got there own gear and really want a lessson but cant get one so they get out there on there own thay dont know the right of way rules and can slam there kites in the water at any moment and really block the beach and make it hard for experienced ridders to ride in the same area especially when launching or landing. My fear is that if kiteboarding gets that popular and there is more issues like this it will become regulated by a higher authority and we will require a licence to kite, i can only see a nother 3 years and a lot of beach closures before this happens.IMO

If you dont like the idea of this than try to give these learners a break get out of there road and kite in a safer area to try and prevent and incidents or accidents from happening. There are people that will be reading this thread that probaly want kiteboarding band from that beach and all you are doing is giveing them amunition against you. Try not to mention particular sites as a problem but try and address the issue as a whole as the same thing happens every where. Im glad im not trying to learn to kite at the moment there is so much more to worry about. All i had to worry about was hurting myself in the begining.

It sure is crazy down there.

To me it seems like the schools should be restricted with the amount of water lessons they give at any one time.Maybe the council can help us or the schools could agree.

I think two per school would be fair.This on an average day would give the schools 20% of people on the water.

At the moment it is both dangerous and chaotic for everyone

We as riders and paying members of KBV need KBV to set the guidelines on this.and we as riders can keep an eye on it.

The beach is for everyone not just for commercial money grabbers

Matt Jones said...

I understand all the comments made but there are some seriously foolish comments being made!

Well if you understood the comments you wouldn't think they were foolish. I dont think you understand what we are talking about at all.

Matt Jones said...

The schools have worked together and designed a circular pattern for students/instructors to work in just like a holding pattern for aircraft and it works well. Any new riders who have completed their lessons and are now on their own can fall into this routine easily.

Ya, we have noticed, you have a circular pattern where between all the schools you take up the entire length of the beach from the spit down to where the shrubs are at the northern end of the beach. It may work well for students and instructors but there is no mention of the general kiting public there.

Matt Jones said...

What all kiters should be doing when they setup or have landed is place kites at the sides or back of the beach and pull their lines in behind their kites. This prevents people tripping over lines and kites crashing into unattended kites taking up the entire beach.

I agree with this, but it isnt what we are talking about here. Do you actually understand what we are talking about.

Matt Jones said...

If there are experienced kiters who dont have the ability to enter or depart the area then they dont know how to kite and should probably come for lessons!

No, sorry, i know how to kite, but having to pass through a continuous line of instructors and students crashing their kites is a danger. There is usually about 30m between each lesson, therefore unless i pass within 5 meters of the lesson downwind of me (in which case the instructor will usually have a go at me for coming to close and i have to have my kite at 12 to get past the students kite, also usually at 12), i have to pass within 25m of the lesson upwind.... ie the strike zone for a student crashing the kite.... do you not understand this? If not i think you need to open your eyes a little.

Matt Jones said...

If you are such a hot shot then kite in the kiddie pool and setup on the pier road side as no students are on that side.

Now your just being a smartass, i dont think anyone here has posted, "oh, im a hot shot get out of my way kooks".... did they?

Matt Jones said...

I am always available to discuss issues at St kilda or else where so come and introduce yourself or be a chicken **** and abuse me under a sign in forum name!!!! Good kiting to all and have a great safe Merry Xmas.

So far you are the only person abusing others here mate. we have just been discussing the obvious issue of way to many lessons taking up the entire beach. I dont think anyone has even mentioned Matt Jones or any of the schools in a bad way, but you come on here and say: we cannot kite and need lessons, if you a hotshot kite in the kiddie pool and call us chicken **** for mystery abuse. Its all very confusing and slightly agressive, frankly i dont understand what your beef is.

We just want to get onto the water without having to navigate crashing kites, kites sitting at 12 and instructors yelling at us for coming to close when there really isnt any other option.

Next time you post have a read of what people have written, then read what you have written then pause and just think for a moment about how that is actually coming across. Im quite surprised with that attitude that the council/powers that be have actually let you run a school down there.... i for sure know that if someone asks me where to get lessons, i will definitely tell them where NOT to get lessons from.


PS: Rhys Benbow - fat bastard with a Black 14m 09 Havoc and Gold 9m 07 Waroo, PM me for my phone number if you really want to have a chat.

And your full post just for reference.

Matt Jones said...

Hi guys. To those who dont know me I own Melb Kite Academy and I have been in St kilda for more than a decade. I understand all the comments made but there are some seriously foolish comments being made! So far this season I have not seen as many kites in the air as in previous seasons but Im certain it will increase. St kilda numbers plateaued around 3 years ago and as new members to the beach join then others move on which is a natural accurance. The city of port phillip has assigned 3 permits for schools and a certain amount of instructors which is being adhered to and these a for Go kIte, Republic and myself. Any other group teaching is not allowed and should be reported to the authorities so these are the groups that create the problem. The schools have worked together and designed a circular pattern for students/instructors to work in just like a holding pattern for aircraft and it works well. Any new riders who have completed their lessons and are now on their own can fall into this routine easily. If there are experienced kiters who dont have the ability to enter or depart the area then they dont know how to kite and should probably come for lessons! You all need to be aware that if it was'nt for certain school owners that have protected the sport and have worked with councils over many years then kiting would have been banned many years ago. I do agree that there are some instructors with bad attitudes and there certainly some kiters with bad attitudes however these are minorities and everyone else works really well together. What all kiters should be doing when they setup or have landed is place kites at the sides or back of the beach and pull their lines in behind their kites. This prevents people tripping over lines and kites crashing into unattended kites taking up the entire beach. All kiters should get to know the schools and especially the owners or head instructors so make an effort as we all do for you and assist you all in launching and landing and other assistance. If you are such a hot shot then kite in the kiddie pool and setup on the pier road side as no students are on that side. I am always available to discuss issues at St kilda or else where so come and introduce yourself or be a chicken **** and abuse me under a sign in forum name!!!! Good kiting to all and have a great safe Merry Xmas.

Personally I have always tried to avoid StK for just this reason. I have lost count of the amount of incidents I have seen there and, sorry to the schools, most of the incidents are caused by learners.

But hey, we all had to learn and hands up who has never done something stupid and nearly collected another rider. So whenever I am at StK I just accept that I can’t just grab my kite and immediately set out on the water like at other places. Instead I just have to be a little more patient and aware of what’s going on around me.

Lets be honest guys if we take a little more notice, rather than being wrapped up in our own little world it is pretty easy to spot a learner setting of on a carnage charge across the beach.

Guys have got to learn, schools have to do business and we have all got to look after each other.

Happy holidays guys.

I was a beginner/student trying to learn in St Kilda about a year ago. I honestly found it a frightening (and a few times near impossible) area to learn in. It was generally difficult to get anything out of my lessons because of the number of people crammed into that little space on a good day.

I tried to practice on my own a couple of times as well but gave up from fear of injuring another rider and probably never would have kited again had I not moved to QLD.

I wouldn't be surprised if numorous other learners have walked away from the sport after their lessons for the same reasons.

I don't know for sure, but there must be other areas in Melbourne either better suited for learning or as well positioned for experienced kiters.

I've got a few mates to teach over summer. Sounds like St Kilda will be perfect! We'll fit right in.

Guys my comments are general and not directed at anyone individual. There is a reference to 100 kiters and 10 students......hmmm when was this? The largest amount of kite counted at anyone time is 84 and that was last season and things worked well. As I previously said there are some instructors with bad attitudes and there are certainly some kiters with equally bad attitudes however if kiters adhere to the rules and kite a distance from shore then that stops a huge amount of the problem. Many kiters are guilty of coming in and enjoying the very shallow water at speed even though we all know this is not allowed and if students are having lessons then instructors have a duty of care and will protest to the kiters concerned. however I definately see your point in departing and returning to the shore and you are all entitled to have a clear way. I know as far as my instructors are concerned they will always stop the students when it is safe to do so and allow kiters through but as someone mentioned kiters must also and more so be aware of students.
As far as your the comments regarding refering people for lessons to other schools then that is your choice.
I wish everyone a safe and fantastic New Year and Merry Xmas.

I think it's just a fact of life.

Our local beach used to be quiet, maximum 10 kiters, you knew everyone and everyone knew you. Now you go for a kite, there's people everywhere, newbies who have no idea and no manners body dragging through the crowd on the waters edge out of control.

I tend you agree, learners should be off somewhere lese learning how to ride first, then, when they are capable of controlling their kite and board, can ride with confidence and stay upwind, venture out onto the more popular beaches with the general crew.

We in Adelaide are lucky in the amount of beach space we have which has heaps of less populated beaches that are wide and great for learners, intructors and the like.

I've seen so many accidents and near misses in the last few weeks it's amazing someone hasn't been seriously hurt, both fellow kiters and the general public. I think instructors have a responsibility to tell thier students where they should be kiting until they have sufficient skills, confidence and knowledge to be able to kite safely with other kiters and the general public.

I'm no angel, I've had my fair share of close calls and been the un-suspecting victim of a few as well so don't think I'm prfeaching here by any means.

After all, it's only going to take one bad accident to have it banned from Adelaide's shore lines and moved to a remote location 50 klms from town. This doesn't bother me though apart from it's a pain in the arse to drive further. I have a fuel card that will take me as far as I want to go and a job that gives me some flexibility as when I can go. I just feel for the guys who knock off at 5.30 sharp and not be able to go for a kite after work as they have to drive so far.

We have some good instructors here in Adelaide and we have some bad ones as well., Thankfully, the bad ones aren't doing a lot of teaching and the good ones do it in the right spots so well done to those guys.

It's still a common sense issue and I think it does come down to the instructors pointing thier students in the right direction and making sure they are wary of what's going on and the best way to approach things. After all, being the instructor or 'guru' your student is going to listen to you. Some self regulation doesn't go astray either but in a nice way.

If there are people teaching at St Kilda who shouldn't be, tell them to piss off. Don't be scared of hurting someones feelings because if they are genuine and want to do the right thing then they wil get the appropriate permits to do so. Sit down with the ones who are doing the right thing and work out a plan to make sure everyone is happy!

Sit around a table, talk, put in some guidelines, agree on some self regulation and away you go.

I guess the questions everyone has to ask is-

' What would happen if St Kilda was a banned kiting area'?

If you don't like the answer then something needs to be done.