FormulaNova said..
Wow, something we agree on. Quickly, change your opinion!

Welcome to the alt-middle: we might mostly disagree but we don't change our opinions based on tribal allegiance

Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..
I find that when I am generally browsing the Times of Israel, something I do most days, that I take what they say and read through it. Sometimes the headlines are a bit different to the body of the article, such as in this case, but generally I find 'the Times' to be the best source of all news that I really want to know about in Israel.

It's not like some idiot sent me the link on Facebook or I googled it and didn't read through the article or anything.

I might have missed it, but as that was on the 5th of March, did they do an update after he received his second jab?

Oh hang on, I might have to cancel my subscription to the Times. They seem to be changing things as they go. Just the day before they reported that the visit was cancelled the visit due to concerns about political influence.

www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-ceo-postpones-israel-visit-amid-criticism-of-proximity-to-election/

Who am I to believe? I might have to check facebook again to see what I need to think.

A regular reader? I just googled and posted the first link that was related, trusting Google to not be promoting misinformation.

I read the article and posted it for details rather than a refutation; he and his entourage haven't had the second dose (huh?) so Israel's policy basically says they have to come back later.

You mean, updating the story as facts come in. Your bias is starting to show

So, why blindly post a link? It seems to be a strategy used by a lot of CT people. Are you really one of those? I didn't think you were.

Post a link and stand back. It may mean something, it may not, but I haven't stated an opinion, so I am all good...

In this particular case, you would think that someone would consider the ramifications of a CEO of a company that produces an important vaccine, not taking it. The board would either make him take it, cover it up, or even fake it. That sort of press does not help you sell vaccines, and in this case they are selling them to a country that wants even more from Pfizer.

The worry about political influence would make more sense, and possibly offering the excuse that 'I or my entourage have not had all their jabs and the waiting period' so that you don't offend the PM by talking about the potential political influence.

Sounds reasonable, and the sort of behavior you would expect from a professional CEO. Not getting the second shot, or letting the public know, is not.

FormulaNova said..
So, why blindly post a link? It seems to be a strategy used by a lot of CT people. Are you really one of those? I didn't think you were.

Post a link and stand back. It may mean something, it may not, but I haven't stated an opinion, so I am all good...

In this particular case, you would think that someone would consider the ramifications of a CEO of a company that produces an important vaccine, not taking it. The board would either make him take it, cover it up, or even fake it. That sort of press does not help you sell vaccines, and in this case they are selling them to a country that wants even more from Pfizer.

The worry about political influence would make more sense, and possibly offering the excuse that 'I or my entourage have not had all their jabs and the waiting period' so that you don't offend the PM by talking about the potential political influence.

Sounds reasonable, and the sort of behavior you would expect from a professional CEO. Not getting the second shot, or letting the public know, is not.

Huh? Someone said "back it up" to someone else so I found an article with information, read it so I wasn't posting blindly, then posted it here to show how easy it is to do without resorting to the dreary "show your sources". What's your problem there?

I think that's the point they were trying to make

... and yet, if he'd gotten both injections immediately, people would be whinging about privilege. The game is set up so you can't win.

JulianRoss said..

japie said..
What perplexes me the most is not the fact that there is no open debate on any of the arguments that run counter to the official narrative.

It's the fact that people are happy to accept the narrative and not question why there is no debate.

It is a fundamental principle in determining the truth.

Both in the legal system and in science.

Audi alteram partem

It's very simple. If the other side is denied the opportunity to present their case it is because the deniers are not confident that their narrative is sound.

Or
The counter arguments were held in appropriate settings where appropriately qualified people could put their case. Rather than a public slanging match where johhny one stars with no formal education past grade 3 starts espousing facts that only he knows.
One of the smartest antivaxxers knows how to cook a souffl?, which seems to add to his credibility in the antivaxxer world. Hew indicated in an interview that he was soooo smart and could prove them all wrong, that the government might cause an accident in which he 'disappeared.'
Appropriate discussions are held by people with higher degree qualifications, who do peer reviewed research, so their opinions are worth listening to.
FYI, youtube isn't a place for scientific peer review.

No YouTube is not a place for scientific peer review.

But I'm not referring to scientific peer review. I'm referring to expert opinions running counter to the official narrative about how Covid 19 should be managed.

Youtube, FB, Twitter et al are not a particularly good place for the counter argument to be broadcast as they have consistently and roundly censored any information which goes against the official narrative.

The official narrative is a closed shop.

It is not robust enough to weather criticism so the critics have to be censored.

bobajob said..

kiterboy said..

sgo said..

psychomub said..
Anyone who still thinks we aren't being deceived and lied to about covid...

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/twist-in-death-of-27yearold-covid19-patient-aude-alaskar/news-story/41af00b4dfc3eabdaaecb933402c9c93

This story started out as a perfectly healthy man who succumbed to the Rona, along with calls for everyone under 40 to be jabbed immediately.

So..it turns out he returned a negative C19 test the day before he died and had a history of heart conditions.

Still, he is listed as a Covid victim, and the headline still refers to him as a Covid patient despite the negative test.

The article you refer to says "his family" had a history of heart problems, no mention of his heart situation.
He would have had previous tests as positive, that's why he was being treated for covid. Your article also explains the negative result.
The story started out about a man with covid, not someone "perfectly healthy"

But you are right on one point, we are being "deceived and lied to"...

'Mr Alaskar was being followed up daily by nursing staff and had relatively mild symptoms until he "suddenly deteriorated" around lunchtime on Tuesday...'

Why do you suppose he was being cared for by nursing staff if he only had relatively mild symptoms?

"He was being cared for by southwestern Sydney Local Health District during his isolation period and he'd reached day 13," Dr Chant said on Wednesday."He was being followed up daily by nursing staff and suddenly deteriorated. He was being checked daily and he did complain of feeling a little fatigued but the deterioration happened suddenly, is my understanding."

Apparently he was in the care of the district and obviously was getting daily follow up checks while isolating at home(phone calls etc).

But as this is main stream media, shouldn't everyone be dismissing the article outright instead of arguing about it. I mean isn't the whole story fabricated?

So how many other otherwise fully healthy people are getting daily nursing follow ups when they are at home with mild symptoms?

eppo said..



I could be wrong above but thats my understanding thus far.

Yep - you're wrong

FormulaNova said..

sgo said..

psychomub said..
Anyone who still thinks we aren't being deceived and lied to about covid...

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/twist-in-death-of-27yearold-covid19-patient-aude-alaskar/news-story/41af00b4dfc3eabdaaecb933402c9c93

This story started out as a perfectly healthy man who succumbed to the Rona, along with calls for everyone under 40 to be jabbed immediately.

So..it turns out he returned a negative C19 test the day before he died and had a history of heart conditions.

Still, he is listed as a Covid victim, and the headline still refers to him as a Covid patient despite the negative test.

But you are right on one point, we are being "deceived and lied to"...

We are being lied to by the media and then told the truth by the same media?

Yes and No !
Its the journalists job to sell papers - NOTHING else matters !

Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..
So, why blindly post a link? It seems to be a strategy used by a lot of CT people. Are you really one of those? I didn't think you were.

Post a link and stand back. It may mean something, it may not, but I haven't stated an opinion, so I am all good...

In this particular case, you would think that someone would consider the ramifications of a CEO of a company that produces an important vaccine, not taking it. The board would either make him take it, cover it up, or even fake it. That sort of press does not help you sell vaccines, and in this case they are selling them to a country that wants even more from Pfizer.

The worry about political influence would make more sense, and possibly offering the excuse that 'I or my entourage have not had all their jabs and the waiting period' so that you don't offend the PM by talking about the potential political influence.

Sounds reasonable, and the sort of behavior you would expect from a professional CEO. Not getting the second shot, or letting the public know, is not.

Huh? Someone said "back it up" to someone else so I found an article with information, read it so I wasn't posting blindly, then posted it here to show how easy it is to do without resorting to the dreary "show your sources". What's your problem there?

I think that's the point they were trying to make

... and yet, if he'd gotten both injections immediately, people would be whinging about privilege. The game is set up so you can't win.

Sorry.

When I see a link just posted up there, I am used to the CT people that seem to think it stands for itself. I guess in this case I was wrong. A summary always helps though.

What's the problem here? I have heaps of problems! Listed alphabetically or by date? Significance to my health? Covid related?

Yeah, the CEO was saying that he wasn't eligible for the 2nd dose and didn't want to jump the queue. After reading a few articles on this, I suspect that it was more to do with the potential to be seem as a political tool, so they opted out with an excuse. (Good thing too as if the next PM didn't like them it would be awkward.)

It is annoying though when people add these sorts of things to their dossier of reasons why Covid is a hoax, but they don't bother to do any research at all, despite saying 'do you own research'. In this case, a quick look at it can tell you its more than 'didn't want to get the second jab'.

kiterboy said..

Can I have your foiling gear WHEN you catch Covid ?

FormulaNova said..

Main said..

FormulaNova said..

sgo said..

psychomub said..
Anyone who still thinks we aren't being deceived and lied to about covid...

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/twist-in-death-of-27yearold-covid19-patient-aude-alaskar/news-story/41af00b4dfc3eabdaaecb933402c9c93

This story started out as a perfectly healthy man who succumbed to the Rona, along with calls for everyone under 40 to be jabbed immediately.

So..it turns out he returned a negative C19 test the day before he died and had a history of heart conditions.

Still, he is listed as a Covid victim, and the headline still refers to him as a Covid patient despite the negative test.

But you are right on one point, we are being "deceived and lied to"...

We are being lied to by the media and then told the truth by the same media?

Yes and No !
Its the journalists job to sell papers - NOTHING else matters !

Too true. They should follow it up with a few articles of 'we were wrong' followed by 'we were right'. People would still read.

Im still stewing on the headlines of:

"Property Crash Looming - expect up to 50% depreciation"
and now its
"Boom Boom Boom - its gunna keep going up ! "

seriously these journos are a joke and never held to account.....

FormulaNova said..
Sorry.

When I see a link just posted up there, I am used to the CT people that seem to think it stands for itself. I guess in this case I was wrong. A summary always helps though.

What's the problem here? I have heaps of problems! Listed alphabetically or by date? Significance to my health? Covid related?

Yeah, the CEO was saying that he wasn't eligible for the 2nd dose and didn't want to jump the queue. After reading a few articles on this, I suspect that it was more to do with the potential to be seem as a political tool, so they opted out with an excuse. (Good thing too as if the next PM didn't like them it would be awkward.)

It is annoying though when people add these sorts of things to their dossier of reasons why Covid is a hoax, but they don't bother to do any research at all, despite saying 'do you own research'. In this case, a quick look at it can tell you its more than 'didn't want to get the second jab'.

No problem.

Took about 30 seconds to scan the article, it's its own summary!

How about by relevance

I figured that'd be the case, but it's still not the greatest optics.

Granted, but that's just how the world turns. I'd assumed the original guy who mentioned it did so with the intent to suggest that he had no jabs at all. As far as "do your research", I think there's a certain amount of due diligence that you do have to do. It's the extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence be supplied, but you're right in thinking that most people seem to have an opinion and haven't actually done THEIR research to back it up and make sure that it'll stick.

chrispy said..

kiterboy said..

bobajob said..

kiterboy said..

sgo said..

psychomub said..
Anyone who still thinks we aren't being deceived and lied to about covid...

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/twist-in-death-of-27yearold-covid19-patient-aude-alaskar/news-story/41af00b4dfc3eabdaaecb933402c9c93

This story started out as a perfectly healthy man who succumbed to the Rona, along with calls for everyone under 40 to be jabbed immediately.

So..it turns out he returned a negative C19 test the day before he died and had a history of heart conditions.

Still, he is listed as a Covid victim, and the headline still refers to him as a Covid patient despite the negative test.

The article you refer to says "his family" had a history of heart problems, no mention of his heart situation.
He would have had previous tests as positive, that's why he was being treated for covid. Your article also explains the negative result.
The story started out about a man with covid, not someone "perfectly healthy"

But you are right on one point, we are being "deceived and lied to"...

'Mr Alaskar was being followed up daily by nursing staff and had relatively mild symptoms until he "suddenly deteriorated" around lunchtime on Tuesday...'

Why do you suppose he was being cared for by nursing staff if he only had relatively mild symptoms?

"He was being cared for by southwestern Sydney Local Health District during his isolation period and he'd reached day 13," Dr Chant said on Wednesday."He was being followed up daily by nursing staff and suddenly deteriorated. He was being checked daily and he did complain of feeling a little fatigued but the deterioration happened suddenly, is my understanding."

Apparently he was in the care of the district and obviously was getting daily follow up checks while isolating at home(phone calls etc).

But as this is main stream media, shouldn't everyone be dismissing the article outright instead of arguing about it. I mean isn't the whole story fabricated?

So how many other otherwise fully healthy people are getting daily nursing follow ups when they are at home with mild symptoms?

I don't know , how about you tell us captain innuendo....or does that ruin your narrative,being able to make a statement without some facts to back it up

You do that so well boi

Oh boi oh boi oh boi. You clearly don't know much.
Have you found out what nurses are for yet?

Main said..

kiterboy said..

Can I have your foiling gear WHEN you catch Covid ?

The number of people that have fully recovered from Covid is in the very high millions, with the lack of robust seroprevalence data some epidemiologists are estimating it's already reached the low billions.

That means there is literally hundreds of millions of other people you could be asking for foiling gear

kiterboy said..

chrispy said..

kiterboy said..

bobajob said..

kiterboy said..

sgo said..

psychomub said..
Anyone who still thinks we aren't being deceived and lied to about covid...

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/twist-in-death-of-27yearold-covid19-patient-aude-alaskar/news-story/41af00b4dfc3eabdaaecb933402c9c93

This story started out as a perfectly healthy man who succumbed to the Rona, along with calls for everyone under 40 to be jabbed immediately.

So..it turns out he returned a negative C19 test the day before he died and had a history of heart conditions.

Still, he is listed as a Covid victim, and the headline still refers to him as a Covid patient despite the negative test.

The article you refer to says "his family" had a history of heart problems, no mention of his heart situation.
He would have had previous tests as positive, that's why he was being treated for covid. Your article also explains the negative result.
The story started out about a man with covid, not someone "perfectly healthy"

But you are right on one point, we are being "deceived and lied to"...

'Mr Alaskar was being followed up daily by nursing staff and had relatively mild symptoms until he "suddenly deteriorated" around lunchtime on Tuesday...'

Why do you suppose he was being cared for by nursing staff if he only had relatively mild symptoms?

"He was being cared for by southwestern Sydney Local Health District during his isolation period and he'd reached day 13," Dr Chant said on Wednesday."He was being followed up daily by nursing staff and suddenly deteriorated. He was being checked daily and he did complain of feeling a little fatigued but the deterioration happened suddenly, is my understanding."

Apparently he was in the care of the district and obviously was getting daily follow up checks while isolating at home(phone calls etc).

But as this is main stream media, shouldn't everyone be dismissing the article outright instead of arguing about it. I mean isn't the whole story fabricated?

So how many other otherwise fully healthy people are getting daily nursing follow ups when they are at home with mild symptoms?

I don't know , how about you tell us captain innuendo....or does that ruin your narrative,being able to make a statement without some facts to back it up

You do that so well boi

Oh boi oh boi oh boi. You clearly don't know much.
Have you found out what nurses are for yet?

Kiterfraud still has nothing

psychojoe said..

kiterboy said..

Main said..

kiterboy said..

Can I have your foiling gear WHEN you catch Covid ?

Why? I'll be busy using it.

If I say the same thing at the same time but using different words is it still a Jinx

No jinx, unless jinx means two idiots agreeing on the same thing using different words..(memes not included)