Harrow said...
How often would there NOT be a shark within 2km radius when you are surfing? I'm guessing only about 50% of the time?

I have no idea, what do the fishermen reckon?

7-15 years ago i often targeted sharks / mulloway from the beaches / reefs around Perth after tripod fishing trigg point got boring and let me tell you it was hard work and we never saw sharks along the reef and beaches. That's fishing 7-10 times a week regardless of the weather or season. There have been countless reports of shark activity in that same stretch in the last few months.

I landed a solid 5 footer in front of Cleggies / Yello, another couple of smaller whalers at Brighton and at one stage small hammerheads (30-60cm) were thick and taking mulies at Swanbourne drain but that was it. Nowhere near as many salmon compared to this year but the reefs were still full of yellow eye and sea mullet and now you could float a fresh fish head under a balloon and be hooked up within a couple of hours i think.

Well over here in NSW the lifeguard can actually fine you although they never do as they get paid by the state government to lifeguard not write up fines. We have council rangers for that who are paid a commission for the privilage of catching you in an unpaid beach spot.
I think the bondi lifeguards can fine you for staying out in the water. There you are likely to be on camera as well.
I currently stay up the north coast of NSW and we dont have lifesavers or beach inspectors. Your free to go out whenever you like, monster swells, with the sharks,stingers no flags so you can ride your board when ever you want. So how have surfers and swimmers fared in the area.

Three helicopter rescues in the last 6 months, 2 fatality from drowning, when a man tried to save his son and one fell into the water. The surrounding unpatrolled beaches have betwen 6 and 10 fatalities.
The volunteer patrolled beach, none.
I have helped in 2 rescues at the beach myself during summer when surfers have ventured out too far.

The beach holds 3-5 surf contests a year. We have lots of sharks, the whites are on the increase. When someone has the good grace to volunteer to protect your friends, kids and loved ones who cant swim and surf like a seasoned surfer, give them the curtesy of swimming in.

I often get called in when swimming with my nephews at bondi, (happened 10-15 times now) when I bodysurf out to the surf peak. Its mushy and weak between the flags. Every time I have swum in the lifesavers will come up, apoligise for asking me to come in as they can see i am a competent swimmer but point out that the backpackers and tourists cant read the surf like me and will follow me out. I never have been met with a harsh word or attitude and let me tell you I dont think its ever been all time when I have been out swimming at bondi. When I come down on a saturday and the same people are putting in free time teaching my nephews in nippers and joking around in their spare time I apreciate what they do.

Just a question on this day was the surf all time. Was it worth staying out. I have been lucky to surf some of NSW best spots with a group of friends 15 years ago when we would catch any wave that we wanted. If it was pumping the whole town would be on it and i had some epic sessions. If the waves were 6-8ft perfect barrels with double ups then I would be as annoyed as anything if I got snaked or dropped in on.

I would pay the fine, then donate the same amount to the surfclub with the beach inspector. Give someone else good karma. Add arseholes really cant handle when you do this reverse psychology stuff.
But myself down for doing a season as a volunteer lifeguard and then see the event from both perspectives.

jbshack said...

mitchupc said..

jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??

It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.

How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.

SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..

Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out

Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?

Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.

And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?

Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.

Unbelievable, some of you clowns.

Should have just punched the cant

lesson learnt . $250 fine for being an idiot and going back to your car lol . should have just gone for a walk along the beach or something . THEN gone back to your car .

kiterboy said..

jbshack said...

mitchupc said..

jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??

It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.

How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.

SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..

Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out

Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?

Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.

And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?

Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.

Unbelievable, some of you clowns.

You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..

By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"

busterwa said..

jbshack said..

busterwa said..


You could probably say the sharks were always there just didn't have the internet and tec to share the sighting Mabe its just the shark sightings that have increased.
In my opinion
a lot of the sighting are relatively insignificant for example a 2.5 metre shark unknow species Its a sighting To me that's not a risk? Its the 4m +you don't see that's the risk.

But when they sound the alarm, they don't use different alarms for a 4mtr Great White or a 2mtr bronzy, so how are supposed to know

What if someone rang in a alarm to SLSWA reporting a 4 mtr, should they not clear the beach, until they have a positive measurement

Its not really that hard to obey beach warnings is it

I was just questioning some of there reports. A lot of the reports there are public species unidentified. Most of the sharks reported sighting are under 3 metres? I understand the warnings but a 2-3.5 metres shark in an area would be a low risk even if it was a white or a tiger. To many bull**** spotting's of the uneducated public.

I understand the point you were making, but my point was that a few of the reports during the same period were actually of large Great Whites, especially at Trigg, Over 3.5 m. The issue as has been presented in this thread is people no longer will take a shark sighting as serous threat, because of so many reports about small bronze whalers.

SO Mitchupc gets a shark warning to get out of the water, and then assumes its just a small bronze but it could in fact be a large great white.

Thats the problem with the helicopter service. Why not use the loud hailers or a light system on the bottom that flashes with any real threat. Theres nothing more unsettling then have a chopper hover near you, do circles and then fly off.. Leaving you wondering just what they were looking at

Also Mitchupc id been glad you got the warning to get out. When the last attack occurred of Mindarie i was surfing with others less than 1 km away. We also saw a chopper circling and wondered what was happening. Our council took over 1.5 hours to come and clear our beach

jbshack said..

mitchupc said..
Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar to my run in with the local council...
Prior to this i honestly thought us surfers could only be advised/warned but not forced to leave the water by law..

So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches) i was surfing with 3 others when the beach shark alarm was sounded, (the channel 7 chopper was hovering over the water a couple km up the coast at mettams pool) so i figured i was obviously in no imminent danger and decided to stay out. A beach inspector then showed up in his car advising there was a shark up the coast and that the beach was closed so any surfers must exit the water (over his loudspeaker).
The other surfers then paddled to a peak down the beach and i headed in to an inside reform bank that was breaking onto the sand (i surely thought i could surf the shorey until they reopened the beach). After surfing a few waves onto the sand i was then told by the beach inspector over his loudspeaker that he would call the police if i didnt get out and said i was going to be fined. As soon as i exit the water the beach inspector is in wait and stands tall over me telling me that "im not going anywhere" and presents a $250 fine form and asks for my details. I argue that a shark down the coast is obviously not an imminent threat and that the idea of being fined for something like this is just ridiculous especially as there was still other surfers in the water down the beach. I declined giving my details to write up the fine and started walking back to my car. (i figured that the beach inspector may have realised the stupidness of the situation as initially he didnt follow me). Anyway as i am driving off i see him in the carpark with phone ready snapping a pic of my number plate. $250 fine in the mail 2 weeks later.....just wow.

Has anybody else had a similar situation? Wondering whether or not i should lodge an appeal (anybody out there with some legal background that could help?) I Can put up some pics of the fine if needed

Cheers :)

Going back to your first post. SO you saw a media helicopter filming in the distance. But there were actually days when simultaneous alarms of a small shark at Toms whilst another shark alarm of a Great White between Scarbs and Trigg. The truth is you didn't know what size the shark alarm was for, why not learn from the experience, the beach inspectors are simply doing a job, if you had actually been attacked and died, that inspector would be drawn over the coals for not doing his job correctly. Im fairy sure his heart would have been racing, he would have been emotional worried for peoples safety and then to have people ignore his constant, simple warning maybe he took offence and thought he would teach you a lesson, seems he has at least done a service by getting people talking about the problem.

SO a pat on the back for him IMHO

Stupidity is on your part. I missed a plane check in the other day by 2 minutes.. I was annoyed, really cranky but still it was my problem, i caused the issue and sucked it up and paid the extra $300 for the next flight.

Not going to bother replying to you again, but if this inspector is so "emotional worried for peoples safety" he wouldn't be up off the beach in the carpark chasing a number plate pic whilst there is an apparently imminent shark threat in the water...

mitchupc said..

jbshack said..

mitchupc said..
Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar to my run in with the local council...
Prior to this i honestly thought us surfers could only be advised/warned but not forced to leave the water by law..

So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches) i was surfing with 3 others when the beach shark alarm was sounded, (the channel 7 chopper was hovering over the water a couple km up the coast at mettams pool) so i figured i was obviously in no imminent danger and decided to stay out. A beach inspector then showed up in his car advising there was a shark up the coast and that the beach was closed so any surfers must exit the water (over his loudspeaker).
The other surfers then paddled to a peak down the beach and i headed in to an inside reform bank that was breaking onto the sand (i surely thought i could surf the shorey until they reopened the beach). After surfing a few waves onto the sand i was then told by the beach inspector over his loudspeaker that he would call the police if i didnt get out and said i was going to be fined. As soon as i exit the water the beach inspector is in wait and stands tall over me telling me that "im not going anywhere" and presents a $250 fine form and asks for my details. I argue that a shark down the coast is obviously not an imminent threat and that the idea of being fined for something like this is just ridiculous especially as there was still other surfers in the water down the beach. I declined giving my details to write up the fine and started walking back to my car. (i figured that the beach inspector may have realised the stupidness of the situation as initially he didnt follow me). Anyway as i am driving off i see him in the carpark with phone ready snapping a pic of my number plate. $250 fine in the mail 2 weeks later.....just wow.

Has anybody else had a similar situation? Wondering whether or not i should lodge an appeal (anybody out there with some legal background that could help?) I Can put up some pics of the fine if needed

Cheers :)

Going back to your first post. SO you saw a media helicopter filming in the distance. But there were actually days when simultaneous alarms of a small shark at Toms whilst another shark alarm of a Great White between Scarbs and Trigg. The truth is you didn't know what size the shark alarm was for, why not learn from the experience, the beach inspectors are simply doing a job, if you had actually been attacked and died, that inspector would be drawn over the coals for not doing his job correctly. Im fairy sure his heart would have been racing, he would have been emotional worried for peoples safety and then to have people ignore his constant, simple warning maybe he took offence and thought he would teach you a lesson, seems he has at least done a service by getting people talking about the problem.

SO a pat on the back for him IMHO

Stupidity is on your part. I missed a plane check in the other day by 2 minutes.. I was annoyed, really cranky but still it was my problem, i caused the issue and sucked it up and paid the extra $300 for the next flight.

Not going to bother replying to you again, but if this inspector is so "emotional worried for peoples safety" he wouldn't be up off the beach in the carpark chasing a number plate pic whilst there is an apparently imminent shark threat in the water...

How many other people were in the water?

evlPanda said..

Harrow said..
What's next, ban motorbikes when it is raining?

There are drunk people in town. Potential violence. Everyone out or a $250 fine.

are drunk people chewing peoples legs off? thats terrible.

Lucky down at Yallingup we never see City Rangers
Sounds like revenue raising simular to parking fines...fine the sharks for overcrowding

kiterboy said..

jbshack said...

kiterboy said..

jbshack said...

mitchupc said..

jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??

It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.

How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.

SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..

Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out

Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?

Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.

And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?

Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.

Unbelievable, some of you clowns.

You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..

By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"

Ah, I see you have moronic skills at reading too.
I spose I should have known from your moronic spelling skills, moron.
Telling him to 'except' the fine. Idiot.

The point I'm making is that moronic 'up-the-arse-takers', like yourself are more than happy to give up your freedoms and bend over, all because some moron (sic) in authority has decided that you are not adult enough to use your own judgement and take your own personal risks.
And more than just that, you are more than happy to advocate others should be bending over too.
It's people like you, with your pussy-assed attitudes, is why our personal freedoms are being eroded more and more everyday.

And you call me an idiot. Laughable.

P.S.- sorry for using big words, let me know how you go understanding the point. I'm happy to break it down into monosylabic words for you.

You're so smart, you should go next door and agree with the guy who got caught drunk driving twice over the legal limit and tell him to fight the charges, how dare those pesky authorities put out laws to protect the overtly stupid.. You'd make the ideal spokesman for that group..

I really don't see how it's morally justifiable issuing a fine to someone when it's only themselves they're going to hurt.

A drunk driver/speeder etc has a great deal of potential to injure someone else, hence a penalty makes sense. Someone deciding to stay out surfing after a shark alarm is only turning themselves into more of a target.

As for others ignoring warnings etc because so and so didn't go in, how many people do you know that would honestly stay in the water after hearing word of a shark?

It's ridiculous, because by issuing fines for this sort of issue they're also broadcasting that they're responsible for safety of beach users, and increasing the chance of litigation against themselves if someone gets taken by a shark they miss.

If they leave it at a stern talking to about not following directions that are in the interests of someones safety, then they remain as an organisation that does their best to keep people safe at the beach.

If they run around handing out fines for not "following orders" then suddenly they've become much more than that.

SO the argument for some is that a surfer staying in the water after a shark alarm, and then being told to get out by local authorities is that "He is not hurting anyone else other than himself"..."Surely its his choice"

So a question to those that say this is fine.. If a shark swims up and bites his leg off, who will have to swim out, paddle out and risk their own loves to retrieve him What about the family and others on the beach that witness the attack, that stuff will upset people more than some could imagine . What about the cost of the ambulance and emergency surgery and then the on going to cost to the state to help re-habilite and eventually possibly a pension to look after the person for his life time Who will bear those costs.. I think when you add them up, you'll soon see he is hurting/risking more than his own life.
(For the record i have no problem with paying these out of my taxes, but i find it rude when people say I'm not hurting anyone else, and turn their noses up to a warning..)

All the comparisons to stupid laws, well thats a different argument. Don't like the law, than move somewhere else, or do something about trying to change them. So many people sit and whine that they don't like something and do nothing to try and change that situation..

Thanks Mitchupc for raising this topic, at least now people have a good idea that next time a shark warning is sounded, they should get the hell out of the water, and if they don't, expect a $250 fine possibly..

jbshack said...
SO the argument for some is that a surfer staying in the water after a shark alarm, and then being told to get out by local authorities is that "He is not hurting anyone else other than himself"..."Surely its his choice"

So a question to those that say this is fine.. If a shark swims up and bites his leg off, who will have to swim out, paddle out and risk their own loves to retrieve him What about the family and others on the beach that witness the attack, that stuff will upset people more than some could imagine . What about the cost of the ambulance and emergency surgery and then the on going to cost to the state to help re-habilite and eventually possibly a pension to look after the person for his life time Who will bear those costs.. I think when you add them up, you'll soon see he is hurting/risking more than his own life.
(For the record i have no problem with paying these out of my taxes, but i find it rude when people say I'm not hurting anyone else, and turn their noses up to a warning..)

All the comparisons to stupid laws, well thats a different argument. Don't like the law, than move somewhere else, or do something about trying to change them. So many people sit and whine that they don't like something and do nothing to try and change that situation..

Thanks Mitchupc for raising this topic, at least now people have a good idea that next time a shark warning is sounded, they should get the hell out of the water, and if they don't, expect a $250 fine possibly..

Spoken like a true obedient citizen.

It'll be interesting to see where you draw the line in how far they erode your personal freedoms.

Wait, what am I thinking? You happily give up your rights at the drop of a hat.

Seeking approval from 'authorities' isn't the way to go, cause you didn't get it from your daddy.

Many studies show that people of low intellect are much more likely to unquestionably give up their rights, just cause they were told to by 'authority' figures.