Armstrong Performance Mast Sizes

Oahuwaterwalker, have you been using the 50 or 60 cm fuse? The 50 makes such a huge difference in responsiveness.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

Windoc said..
Oahuwaterwalker, have you been using the 50 or 60 cm fuse? The 50 makes such a huge difference in responsiveness.

Windoc said..
Oahuwaterwalker, have you been using the 50 or 60 cm fuse? The 50 makes such a huge difference in responsiveness.

Thanks!

I've only used the 60.

How does the 50 impact getting on foil and glide?

Try the 50. It's incredible with the 935 and 795 (I didn't want to get the 795 but IMO it's a necessity for Hawaii's reef-laden winging spots). I was exclusively using the 60 with my old 85 since the pairing was too sensitive for my liking. My bread and butter was the 60 and 195 with one red shim--now it's the 50 and 195 with one blue shim, paired with either the 925 or 725 (I also have the 800 on order (side note: I think Armstrong will be releasing one or more tails to go with the new MA foils)). The 925 feels more like a 725, with the addition of so more maneuverability across the pitch and yaw axes. I've had maybe 8 sessions now from knee- to- head-high north shore Maui surf. The 60 will most likely remain as my go-to for overhead surf and flat water racing.

Note that the 8cm length difference between the 50 and 60-the 50 A+ is actually 52cm in length-requires more tail angle to compensate for the increase in pitch sensitivity that comes with the reduced leverage of having a shorter fuse-that is, to elicit the same sort of stability that comes with, in my experience, the 60 and one red shim. I have the 935 dialed-I just got the 795 so am still trying to figure out the mast position sweet spot on my 34L and 60L. FWIW, I immediately noticed that the 850mm difference between the 795 and 935 makes for a more connected experience, to the extent that the 795 is a bit more sensitive across all axes.

EDIT: Glide is a lot better. Pumping is more efficient, albeit with a higher loading cadence. Oskar J has good post on the FB group about pumping on the 50 for prone, which is still applicable for winging. With respect to getting on foil, I've found that the 50 requires a rapid burst of front-foot pumping/loading.

Had another session this morning with 3.6 wing, but decided to try the 725 again instead of the 525. Like my first session on the 935, I had a blast. I was quickly able to adapt to the turning and the glide was, again, exponentially better than before. I don't know why, but somehow the longer mast is making the 525 more difficult for me to manage. I felt like I was able to surf the 725 the way I can surf the 525 with the 85 mast. Go figure...

Paulweller and Windoc, I will definitely check out the 50cm fuse. I'm going to wait until after the MA800 comes in so that I'm only changing one thing at a time, but I'm pretty convinced that with the 725 and new mast would be a winner. Thanks for the tip.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..
Great review by Giampaolo:

Interesting that he seems to like the 85cm mast with the 525.
The part about inputs on all axis are more immediately felt on the foil itself rang true. Somewhat of a more demanding ride technique wise as a result. Will make better rider for sure.

My takeaway from this is the A+ 85 still turns better because it's a narrower chord but everything else is better on new masts ? Normally that change in rake angle on the new masts would make pumping harder ( nose higher) ,but I imagine the extra stiffness is more important here and compensates for that.From a purely prone perspective the new rake angle will improve late/ steeper takeoffs with less boosting and the extra stiffness improve pumping and control overall , the only question I have is the rail to rail turning effect of the longer chord and how much is that turning ability is reduced ?

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eppo said..

kobo said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
Great review by Giampaolo:

Interesting that he seems to like the 85cm mast with the 525.
The part about inputs on all axis are more immediately felt on the foil itself rang true. Somewhat of a more demanding ride technique wise as a result. Will make better rider for sure.

My takeaway from this is the A+ 85 still turns better because it's a narrower chord but everything else is better on new masts ? Normally that change in rake angle on the new masts would make pumping harder ( nose higher) ,but I imagine the extra stiffness is more important here and compensates for that.From a purely prone perspective the new rake angle will improve late/ steeper takeoffs with less boosting and the extra stiffness improve pumping and control overall , the only question I have is the rail to rail turning effect of the longer chord and how much is that turning ability is reduced ?

Well Ive not noticed this. If anything the turning is sharper as you can lay into it harder and sharper angles because it's so reliable and steady. That's on a 795 though. Depends on what you are looking for I suppose. You can keep that unpredictable weirdness on the old mast, don't want anything to do with it.

I just trying to find something wrong with it other than the price so I can be happy with my A+85 again ! I was perfectly happy with it before this came along ...maybe I should do what Armie does and not look at social media anymore

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kobo said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
Great review by Giampaolo:

Interesting that he seems to like the 85cm mast with the 525.
The part about inputs on all axis are more immediately felt on the foil itself rang true. Somewhat of a more demanding ride technique wise as a result. Will make better rider for sure.

My takeaway from this is the A+ 85 still turns better because it's a narrower chord but everything else is better on new masts ?

You have to keep in mind one more parameter: weight of rider. Where for lightweight guys some flex maybe good, for heavy people different story. I have no problem riding 85 A+ most of the time, but when it gets really choppy it become hard to control foil.

Any of you riding the 1125 on the new masts? I've been riding this foil on the A+85 with a 50 fuse (big improvement over the 60 fuse) and have things I love about it and other things I'm less enthused about (primarily higher riding speeds on SUP foil where the foil would resist changing direction and I'd get launched when the mast would spring back). To fund the new 93 I've sold the 85 as well as the 1125 reluctantly. MA1225 will replace it. Still, I imagine the 1125 will light up on the new masts!

I tried the 1325 on the new mast (935) yesterday and really enjoyed it winging. The wind was light and waves were small. It was much easier to control/turn. I had previously given up with it. 88kgs. 60 fuse and 195 tail. 75Arm board. Looking fwd to MA wings.

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NICKKernow said..
I tried the 1325 on the new mast (935) yesterday and really enjoyed it winging. The wind was light and waves were small. It was much easier to control/turn. I had previously given up with it. 88kgs. 60 fuse and 195 tail. 75Arm board. Looking fwd to MA wings.

Good to know. I had this question in mind. I've also given up on the HA 1325 (using 85A+ mast and 195 tail and 60 fuse). I felt it was riding me and not the other way around. I'm 82 kgs and my daily driver is the HA 925 and 1250 HS, occasionally for lighter wind days. The 1325 is now on the second-hand market, but not much interest.

I have the 935 HP mast and 800 MA on order so will certainly give the 1325 another go. Maybe it can become my light wind foil and replace the 1250. Or one of the MA foils will take over that role.

Time will tell.

No, still T30

Just listening to a podcast from unifoil designer who recommends not using the new stiffer unifoil Katana mast unless you are heavier rider or using bigger front wings. He says the Katana mast introduces more unnecessary drag ... interesting seeing the opposite appears to be the case with the new Armstrong mast, must be the foil section I assume.

First session with the 935 performance mast. Conditions were rough: 30 knots and 3 mt waves. Front wing 725.
Pros:
- almost impossible to breach
- More stable higher speed

Cons:
- I had a feeling it's less lively on turns when on top of a wave
- I also find more difficult to regain height when the foil is down under

i did not feel that it was faster through the water like MaF said.
I put the mast at the same position i had my old 85 mast but then i put 1,5 cm back and it felt better.
Consider that this is only my first experience,matbe that's why i did not get the WOW factor, for sure i need a couple of more sessions to dial and adjust to the new lenght but i'm wondering now if it was a wrong decision to buy the 935 instead of the 795.

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wingedsurfer said..
First session with the 935 performance mast. Conditions were rough: 30 knots and 3 mt waves. Front wing 725.
Pros:
- almost impossible to breach
- More stable higher speed

Cons:
- I had a feeling it's less lively on turns when on top of a wave
- I also find more difficult to regain height when the foil is down under

i did not feel that it was faster through the water like MaF said.
I put the mast at the same position i had my old 85 mast but then i put 1,5 cm back and it felt better.
Consider that this is only my first experience,matbe that's why i did not get the WOW factor, for sure i need a couple of more sessions to dial and adjust to the new lenght but i'm wondering now if it was a wrong decision to buy the 935 instead of the 795.

Listening to the Real review of the MA foils there was a point where Matt very briefly mentions something about width of the new mast impacting turning. When I heard this, I said to myself, "yep, I can feel that." After 4-5 sessions some high wind, some less wind, I've found I'm getting used to it and learning how to compensate to a point where my last session felt more "familiar" when surfing a wave. Also, when it came to being out on the windier days, there were certain aspects of performance improvements that were less perceptible compared to lighter, smaller chop days. My two most enjoyable sessions were in the 15-20kt range. In that wind, I could really experience the difference the 935 was making.

Based on the advice of others here, I'm thinking a 50cm fuse is in my future. I don't know about the rest of you, but as a gear tweaker. I find that there are a set of variables that are always at play with wing foiling. When you change/improve one factor, you have to be open to a change in another factor and possibly make even another change to find your new "balance" of what you like from your gear. I kinda enjoy this as its part of my curious nature, but I could see it driving others nuts, lol.

Happy holidays everyone!

Any lighter riders (I'm 67kgs) used the new masts yet? Is the stiffness and increased cord length making it stiffer to turn for those with less weight pushing into carves? Does the longer cord provide more efficient upwind performance? Any thoughts/suggestions on length for lighter wingers? Assuming the 935 gives more altitude and therefore more forgiving than the 795 but creates less breaching (esp if used with MA) is there a need to have that extra length? I understand there is a slight increase in rake in the performance masts and guess that the MA's account for this would that not mean that the MA's won't be so in tune with the standard 85 mast? Although shouldn't be too bad if mast plate and fuse are still parallel?

Im 65KGs for what it's worth. The 935 is great to have if you plan on racing your buddies or flying down big faces with double ups and rapid water height changes. My buddy who got the 795 just ended up in the urgent care to get his ribs checked after a high speed breach on a double up drop in - water collision. He sent me the cam rewind and the splash was double overhead! It's a give and take.

That all being said, I bet you Armie drops an 855 performance version.