A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
Select to expand quoteRoo said..Mark _australia said..
Cost. Foam makes new models easy to produce .. but slight tweaks for costly mould changes made it hard to have a range of hollow boards.
then labour cost maybe for more complex layup, trimming halves and then bonding halves properly.
I think foam sandwich is the best blend of cost vs durability vs ability to change shape if needed and that's why it's prevailed.
I've seen some great DIY hollow boards but I think the current mass production of them is a response to the trendiness of wing / DW and wanting to have something new that the other companies don't have. I hope it doesn't translate to $5000 windsurf boards soon.
Yes it was all about price. They were going to retail for USD$4000 back in 1991 (about $10000 today), the Japanese were snapping them up. They were too expensive to make. The best shaper and best windsurfer in the world were involved.
If I was too make a hollow board today it would be 3D printed and easily modified. I have plans for a basic monocoque that a number of different shapes can be fitted to. You could easily have 3 different slalom/speed boards using one monocoque.
I think some form of 3D printing/additive manufacturing is where this is going. Between foaming filaments, continuous fiber printers and the ability to put strength exactly where it's needed.
Maybe not this year, but likely within the decade.
Other food for thought:
The shape shifting molds used to make the newer laminate sails could possibly be a basis for making custom molded laminates for hollow boards.
Select to expand quoteTWCustom said..
A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
Never use 4 fins? You sir, are the devil.
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..TWCustom said..
A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
Never use 4 fins? You sir, are the devil.
Lol. I agree. love a quad..
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..Roo said..Mark _australia said..
Cost. Foam makes new models easy to produce .. but slight tweaks for costly mould changes made it hard to have a range of hollow boards.
then labour cost maybe for more complex layup, trimming halves and then bonding halves properly.
I think foam sandwich is the best blend of cost vs durability vs ability to change shape if needed and that's why it's prevailed.
I've seen some great DIY hollow boards but I think the current mass production of them is a response to the trendiness of wing / DW and wanting to have something new that the other companies don't have. I hope it doesn't translate to $5000 windsurf boards soon.
Yes it was all about price. They were going to retail for USD$4000 back in 1991 (about $10000 today), the Japanese were snapping them up. They were too expensive to make. The best shaper and best windsurfer in the world were involved.
If I was too make a hollow board today it would be 3D printed and easily modified. I have plans for a basic monocoque that a number of different shapes can be fitted to. You could easily have 3 different slalom/speed boards using one monocoque.
I think some form of 3D printing/additive manufacturing is where this is going. Between foaming filaments, continuous fiber printers and the ability to put strength exactly where it's needed.
Maybe not this year, but likely within the decade.
Other food for thought:
The shape shifting molds used to make the newer laminate sails could possibly be a basis for making custom molded laminates for hollow boards.
Agree, 3d printing is the future. I've just ordered some Lisa harness lines, they are using 3d printing for many components..
Select to expand quoteTWCustom said..
A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
Fantastic initiative regards buy back etc.. I'm a big believer in futures and fcs2 boxes also and agree, a lot of boards are over engineered.. I guess that came after years of boards falling apart.. to me that was technique and not materials. So over engineering occurred to make up for poor factory techniques.
i'm using particular additives in particular locations too.. this is a big part of building a strong board.
not a massive fan of flat foiled surfboard fins in windsurfer. however I'm spoilt for choice, between mark stone hand shaped fins and another local making g10 thinner foiled surfboard fins I have options. not as light as the skindog but nicer flex.. hard for me to compromise here.
would be interested to try foam core carbon custom fins for my boards so like the idea of the skindogs with some tweaks. Could hand shape myself in the garage..
fins seem to be an area of significant development in the industry.. I just picked up a cabon 34cm fin for my slalom kit and it weighs nothing, has a super thin foil.. looks awesome.. mostvmanufacturersxturning to ultra light plastics or carbon for fins to save weight and achieve faster thinner foils.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Cost. Foam makes new models easy to produce .. but slight tweaks for costly mould changes made it hard to have a range of hollow boards.
then labour cost maybe for more complex layup, trimming halves and then bonding halves properly.
I think foam sandwich is the best blend of cost vs durability vs ability to change shape if needed and that's why it's prevailed.
I've seen some great DIY hollow boards but I think the current mass production of them is a response to the trendiness of wing / DW and wanting to have something new that the other companies don't have. I hope it doesn't translate to $5000 windsurf boards soon.
One of the things I like most about building boards is the initial shaping of the foam.. yes I'm getting cnc blanks milled but there is something I enjoy about hand finishing the final shape.. a mix of art and maths. great stuff. Even prefer higher density foam as it's more workable. the lighter stuff is like butter..
''shaping a rail, standing back, looking, lifting the board feeling the weight and symmetry with the other rail.. Love that.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..Grantmac said..Roo said..Mark _australia said..
Cost. Foam makes new models easy to produce .. but slight tweaks for costly mould changes made it hard to have a range of hollow boards.
then labour cost maybe for more complex layup, trimming halves and then bonding halves properly.
I think foam sandwich is the best blend of cost vs durability vs ability to change shape if needed and that's why it's prevailed.
I've seen some great DIY hollow boards but I think the current mass production of them is a response to the trendiness of wing / DW and wanting to have something new that the other companies don't have. I hope it doesn't translate to $5000 windsurf boards soon.
Yes it was all about price. They were going to retail for USD$4000 back in 1991 (about $10000 today), the Japanese were snapping them up. They were too expensive to make. The best shaper and best windsurfer in the world were involved.
If I was too make a hollow board today it would be 3D printed and easily modified. I have plans for a basic monocoque that a number of different shapes can be fitted to. You could easily have 3 different slalom/speed boards using one monocoque.
I think some form of 3D printing/additive manufacturing is where this is going. Between foaming filaments, continuous fiber printers and the ability to put strength exactly where it's needed.
Maybe not this year, but likely within the decade.
Other food for thought:
The shape shifting molds used to make the newer laminate sails could possibly be a basis for making custom molded laminates for hollow boards.
Agree, 3d printing is the future. I've just ordered some Lisa harness lines, they are using 3d printing for many components..
Not future for all, in facts i see mechanical parts makers, that moved to 3D printing process" for everything", come back to cnc router for many builds because of strain failure. Layering additive process suffer from lake of homogeneity.
Select to expand quoteTWCustom said..
A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
You say brethable foam because you use ultralight really open between cells eps ?
Select to expand quotelemat said..TWCustom said..
A new board from us costs about 3200 USD. My idea is that a rich guy can purchase a new one when he wants by returning the old one and pay half price for the new board. Then we fix the old board and sell it for half price.
We can do this since carbon repairable an infinite number of times and the breathable foam always stays light. 2-300g extra for an 85L board when it is repaired the first time. Subsequent repairs/accidents ads no more weight in the foam. So the board lives forever. This is not some plan, we are doing it now.
For everyone else with traditional foam boards I suggest you drill holes. It is real easy and all boards both production and custom boards are over-engineered. Remember the holes are there also to make it possible at all to dry up the traditional foam. If you can save 200g, you want it. Strip paint and sand to carbon. Use epoxy+carbon powder instead. That is 150g. Replace all pads. That saves 100g. Use FCS II Skindog 18cm (7 inch) aircore fins always. They are US and superlight. If you can, replace thrusters with FCS/Future boxes. The white ones they are 20g and use aircore fins her too. Never use 4 fins. The FCS/Future box (yes two-brands-in-one) are strengthened with to 10mm divinicell plates, maybe 8cm across. These get very strong when glued in with microspheres reaching the top deck.
About the hip-harness. It costs nothing and the patent is there just to stop industry stealing it. So images of converted old harnesses on our old website does make me loose any sleep. All you need is a little rope and the longest harness lines you can find. Your old board and rig really improves. And remember, seat harnesses are really bad. The hook is actually still to high. It should point exactly to Trochanter Major. Google it and good luck.
We make light boards and go out with info so as to kill windfoiling and kiting. We really don't like them on our waves.
enjoy
// Thomas - from the other side
You say brethable foam because you use ultralight really open between cells eps ?
Well its not really open between the cells. Cells are just permeable and I can draw air or blow air from one airvent to another. We buy foam from VARTDAL in Norway, formerly known as GLAVA. I called the new owner and told him about our project. We bought our first batch from GLAVA. Four levels beneath the new owner finally gave me three blocks to a reasonable price because of the top guy. I reckon we need isolation in our houses and under roads a bit more than you do Down under but if you start investigating you perhaps will find the foam you want in Australia. 12.1kg/m3 density. It really changes everything under your feet and you feel like 16 years old again.
Lemat is in Europe but I'll let him chime in he has a lot of experience..
'in oz I can get multiple grades because of a flourishing surfboard industry. So I'm typically using recycled 13kg/m3 For laminated boards.. traditional layup it's on 24kg/m3 eps foam for a little more structure. For the record, I'm not a commercial shaper. I design and build my own boards so my output is not near someone doing this for a living. Not to say my designs are no good. As some collaborations have broken local records.
Select to expand quotelemat said..Gestalt said..Grantmac said..Roo said..Mark _australia said..
Cost. Foam makes new models easy to produce .. but slight tweaks for costly mould changes made it hard to have a range of hollow boards.
then labour cost maybe for more complex layup, trimming halves and then bonding halves properly.
I think foam sandwich is the best blend of cost vs durability vs ability to change shape if needed and that's why it's prevailed.
I've seen some great DIY hollow boards but I think the current mass production of them is a response to the trendiness of wing / DW and wanting to have something new that the other companies don't have. I hope it doesn't translate to $5000 windsurf boards soon.
Yes it was all about price. They were going to retail for USD$4000 back in 1991 (about $10000 today), the Japanese were snapping them up. They were too expensive to make. The best shaper and best windsurfer in the world were involved.
If I was too make a hollow board today it would be 3D printed and easily modified. I have plans for a basic monocoque that a number of different shapes can be fitted to. You could easily have 3 different slalom/speed boards using one monocoque.
I think some form of 3D printing/additive manufacturing is where this is going. Between foaming filaments, continuous fiber printers and the ability to put strength exactly where it's needed.
Maybe not this year, but likely within the decade.
Other food for thought:
The shape shifting molds used to make the newer laminate sails could possibly be a basis for making custom molded laminates for hollow boards.
Agree, 3d printing is the future. I've just ordered some Lisa harness lines, they are using 3d printing for many components..
Not future for all, in facts i see mechanical parts makers, that moved to 3D printing process" for everything", come back to cnc router for many builds because of strain failure. Layering additive process suffer from lake of homogeneity.
That's where the continuous fiber printing is a lot different. But the binding agents just aren't there yet I don't think. Plus it is very slow at this time.
