Well I'm clearly not in their demographic or world.. lol.

on the duotone website it actually says that their custom boards achieve better strength to weight ratio than generic construction. to that point they took their custom stuff away from cobra and built a new factory. Says it all.

From what I understand the proto / team rider boards from cobra are cnc milled so would fit what duotone refer to as semi custom. They only use this for small runs.

all other boards are molded. Sometimes 2 molds are used.. one for the foam and one for after the laminate. this is done to reduce costs. So in a nutshell all the boards being mass produced by cobra are molded and that process impacts strength to weigh ratio.

sounds like you may have got the lighter custom version which are pro models.

The thing about using a third party fabricator is you are kinda locked into their way of producing products. can't say I really know why duotone started their own thing however ai says it was so they could explore advanced construction techniques and technologies..

From ai..
Duotone started their own factory to gain complete control over product quality, R&D, and manufacturing technology, specifically to maintain high standards and pioneer new, innovative materials like
SLS (Strong Light Superior) and D/LAB. By moving to their own production facilities, the brand, under the Boards & More group, aimed to:
Ensure Quality Control: By controlling the entire process, they guarantee that every product meets their strict, high-end standards.
Accelerate Innovation: Owning the factory allows them to rapidly implement new ideas, such as specialized materials, that cannot be done with third-party manufacturers.
Maintain Sustainability Standards: They can directly manage the implementation of eco-friendly materials and reduce their environmental impact through their "Concept Blue" initiative.
Develop Proprietary Techniques: The factory specializes in specific, advanced techniques needed for creating high-performance gear, such as specialized layup techniques, which the brand argues requires up to 30% more work.

Me again.. as a side note. Having seen some boards here and there being repaired that came from cobra it's usually dry spots and excess bog I see. Sometimes it's layup but there has been some very public comments from starboard about materials being blamed when it was construction issues.

lemat said..
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.

Definitely more profit for them.. that's a good thing if it allows them to do things better.

if I was in Europe I'd just get flikka boards. cheaper than duotone, custom and clearly fantastic designs. I've bought some of their fins and really like them.

lemat said..

Gestalt said..

lemat said..
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.

Definitely more profit for them.. that's a good thing if it allows them to do things better.

if I was in Europe I'd just get flikka boards. cheaper than duotone, custom and clearly fantastic designs. I've bought some of their fins and really like them.

And many others, puls, mojo, rico composites, pc2, cs boards, bubblecustomboards etc... many custom board builder cheaper than normal shop prices. But nobody pay normal prices always discount. Guys want to pay brand that well scored in review...paid by brand

Enjoyed the links.. thx.

I thought about doing it in large area from mast track to nose then realised it is a massive fk around to lose maybe 100g. That then requires some filler if the pvc bags down unevenly (almost certain) so I discounted the idea quite quickly.
removing from inside a finished board sounds better

Hollow boards come back. See more and more hollow wood DIY board here. And now Cobra offer hollow build so all "good" brands add hollow boards to their catalogs mostly for big sup and bigger foil boards. Need good waterproofing check. Personaly i still like more bet on foam to stay above water since i see the Salomon blue board of my friend going mid water after a powerful wave impact while we surf outside.

Gestalt said..

lemat said..
Hollow boards come back. See more and more hollow wood DIY board here. And now Cobra offer hollow build so all "good" brands add hollow boards to their catalogs mostly for big sup and bigger foil boards. Need good waterproofing check. Personaly i still like more bet on foam to stay above water since i see the Salomon blue board of my friend going mid water after a powerful wave impact while we surf outside.

Yeah if punctured hollow boards loose flotation. But sealed removing foam just removes weight as the air which provides the volume doesn't change much.

For sure. If well made, with care, hollow board could be really good. At lake i windsurf there is guys with an old airinside board, he say he have a cup of water in each session, never find intake, not a real problem, he open the plug and let water go out like guys with hollow D2. Sometimes i think to build my next hybrid board like hollow wood but with foam with fiber panels. Then i think to my friend with is Salomon...

Sorry, I'm still struggling with what this lot do.

resetting other people's designs, in some cases to become another already known design and call it their own ingenuity, in other cases to dodgy something up for a perceived benefit?


Thats all I'm seeing on their blank website.

515 said..
I would like to boards go away from EPS which sucks water to closed cell foam.
Hollow boards have a place for race boards.
Been more into winging and a few companies have closed cell foam such as Appletree and PPC.
Talking to a PPC board rider that their hollow race wing boards have a bulkhead, so they don't sink!

Also seen some home builds using Extruded polystyrene, and on the topic of "gassing" reply comment is that pin holes are your friend.

Some of the shapers I know are pointing to a full hd foam wrap as the waterproof layer as most damage doesn't puncture the laminate core. the xps issue is the weight.. maybe removing foam could help but I'd imagine to do this each void would need to connect to the next void so air could move around or you get pockets that expand differently..

I had some Issues with balsa which I put down to pockets of air expanding. fortunately it happened prior to final glassing schedule so I could fix the issues when they happened. but it made the timeframes longer on the build.

regards weight.. have built boards with 24kg/m3 eps which is similar to the 28kg/m3 xps. I didn't use a laminate on those builds because it was similar density to mal surfboards and old school windsurfing boards. That works pretty well and was much cheaper and easier to build.. so basically the higher density foam does the job with normal 2x 6oz or 3x glassing schedule over

Footstrap plugs getting evolution. Will use these on my next build because it ditches the silly screw issues. First photo from sanded. not sure how the Flikka ones work in the second image.. does anyone know.. are they held in by the sandwich?

corrosion and stuck/broken screws with the finer threads and metal to metal contact?

AI.Dave said..
corrosion and stuck/broken screws with the finer threads and metal to metal contact?

It depends on the type of stainless steel screw being used with the brass. both brass (sanded) and titanium (Flikka) are excellent in saltwater environments. I specify lights for coastal architecture and use a local company that specialises in brass fittings which offer good warranty.everything else just falls off the buildings.

titanium is even better..

the issue is galvanic corrosion between the stainless steel and brass insert.. marine grade 316 is ok but the brass will corrode over time. I think Flikka uses all titanium so that's not going to experience galvanic corrosion. You don't want to use titanium with brass. Flikka also use titanium because it's light.

got me thinking whether brass screws for the brass inserts would be strong enough.

Edit..looks like m6 brass screws are available with hex head. Maybe with deox r81 anti seize.

We use 12.1kg/m3 foam. Lets water out and easy to check if air tight. Cylinder holes in standard boards makes it possible to dry the board (and save weight). Doing that to three Pyramids now. One is custom "superlight" and should get back to factory condition, but lighter.

Brent in Qld said..

Gestalt said..
Footstrap plugs getting evolution. Will use these on my next build because it ditches the silly screw issues. First photo from sanded. not sure how the Flikka ones work in the second image.. does anyone know.. are they held in by the sandwich?

The welded plate things have been around for a while. Big Head fittings or similar are used extensively in the marine game. Technifast in the UK also do a really good range. I'd assume those square corners in the image would be rounded off prior to installation. Rules of point loading 101...

The Bigheads are normally placed into the laminate late-ish during the construction sequence and mostly used on parts created from female moulds. As example, if the top of the Bighead is to be flush with the exterior of the finished job, you de-core and bring the inside and outside skins together in the local area while the part's in the mould. Next there's local reinforcement placed in way of the Bighead then it's glued into place. Lastly its bonded over with a cover laminate. Structural laminating complete at this stage. Once the part is released the service hole is opened and lightly re-taped using a bottom tap to clean out any glue. Finally its countersunk to keep the laminate back from the edge entry so you get metal on metal threading.

Guess you can tell I've done 1000s of these... Mostly on high performance yachts and anything pre-preg.

www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/bighead-inserts-and-fasteners?srsltid=AfmBOoq8oGZHhsFmTW4PCGs8EF_L4ZS2OQArpqEtFvddcFebwtwd1esQ

Awesome thx. I had to google a lot of your post.. have not heard of these thing previously.

'I'm wondering how to prevent the penetration from leaking when footstrap loads happen. Trying to think it through. Would bonding to the hd foam inserts be enough.. Flikka have made it work so it's doable for windsurfing.

If you're worried about dissimilar metals sh!tting themselves, a couple of drops of Duralac works a treat. Even use it when putting similar metals together in a salty environment. Helps hold the nuts/bolts in place and can always get the buggers undone.
www.amisales.com.au/how-to-prevent-galvanic-corrosion