crazyjockey said...

I bought a new '09 JP FSW pro edition the other day. It was $1899, compared to the cost of the 2011 model which is $2899 or something.

When I got home I noticed the original price sticker on the side of the board - $2399. That's a 20% price increase in 2 years!

I bought the same board, 2 years ago when it was still a current season board for $2000, they were cheap back then!

Does anyone know how much markup retailers in Australia put on a board?

Given that a JP FSW costs $2899 this year, how much does the retailer pay per board? This kind of info would be handy when figuring out how much discount you could reasonably ask for.

http://www.news.com.au/business/retailers-call-for-gst-on-overseas-sales/comments-e6frfm1i-1225945906001

A very relevant article in the news today. Looking at the comments seems like most people are turning to buying items overseas as they are sick of getting ripped off by aussie retailers.

Maybe not 100% applicable to the windsurfing industry as its a bit of a niche market, but interesting none the less.

Question to people who advocate the 'buy local' stance, do you apply this to everything you buy?

Personally I'm more likely to try support the local retailers for windsurfing goods, as long as the price differential is reasonable, also most of the items are fairly large so the shipping does eat into cost a fair bit. But for things such as consumer electronics and bike parts, well I pretty well buy overseas. The delivery timeframes are short often 3-4days, and the savings are usually 30-40%, and half the time stuff isn't available locally anyway. Last time I bought a pair of oakley sunglasses, I got them for under half the price that the local sunglasses hut was charging for them from overseas, including postage.

Great thread, just read all the posts and perhaps we just need to bring all the thoughts together.
As I can see from the information provided, to get the price of boards down we need to increase the volume of boards purchased.
Could the windsurfing community of Australia unite and make an undertaking to purchase new equipment. This could be done by pre-order at the start of the season.
In addition to this an interest free plan of 24 months set up to cover those without the readies.
With up to a 50% discount from manufacturers, an undertaking from all of the retailers to sell the boards at 2/3 rrp would be required. This amount would ensure that the retailers can still operate within thier margins (and keep your local open)and that there is enough built into the price to cover the costs related to interest free payments. More importantly, some of the extra money would need to be spent on youth development programs and inexpensive windsurfing schools.
If the boards were done in one season and masts, booms, sails, and accessories the next to keep a flow of business going through the stores.
The flip side to this then would be that there would be an abundance of good quality second hand gear in the stores that the new-comers from the development programs could buy as entry level kit. The more people sailing, the larger the volume of gear purchased, the cheaper it becomes for the purchase of new gear and thus enticing more people into it.
If this idea were used, by the completion of the second cycle, 4 season old boards would almost be given away when purchasing a pair of boardshorts and that can only have benefits for the sport.
In addition, a spin off would be the professional development and career opportunites that come with proper development programs (instructors etc).
Just my 2 cents worth.

I love how some people here are saying Australian windsurf retailers are ripping them off yet they are all to happy to pay for overpriced groceries and plonk down $900,000 for a two bed room ****box in Sydney.

Bull**** or not, it's a fact that shops in Europe generally get a volume discount on their wholesale price. In some cases the discounts can be as high as 40%... of course to get that discount you need to load up on 200+ boards or sails. I don't believe any retailer in Australia is buying those sort of numbers from a single brand. I mean how many active windsurfers are there in Australia? 1,000? 2,000? Will they all buy new gear every season?

Also, the biggest cost for running a business is staff cost and rent (followed by inventory). Last I checked especially real estate in this country is about 30% overpriced compared to every single other market in the world.

ka43 said...

Agree with Dan on this one.
I owned a shop back in the late 80's just as the arse fell out of windsurfing and I certainly didnt make any money out of it. It was definitely for the love of the sport and knowing a few retailers these days it would be the same position.
The average punter has no idea of the costs etc involved in running a business where 90% of the product is imported, you buy off wholesalers and then try and make a profit on the mark-up.
I know things are different these days with a discount being the norm but for arguments sake you walked into Coles or Woolies, filled your trolley with the weeks shopping. Go through the register, total comes to $360. You say to the checkout person, "Could you do that for $290 and throw in some vouchers?"
They would either laugh or call security.
So everyone that walks into a windsurf shop these days EXPECTS a discount.
Spare a thought for the owner, they have to make a living like the rest of us.

It would make it eaiser for all the windsurfing retailers(and cheaper for the customer) if they pre order their gear.

Stehsegler I think you have got a few peoples point wrong here. I dont think anyone has had a go at retailers or claimed they are ripping us off, quite the opposite. I agree with most everything else you said though. If anyones having a dig at someone its the manufacturers or the importers. Ka 43 also has a point but I would like to go back to what I said about it all being really inefficent. I realise that windsurfing shop owners do it for the love of it and they prob make less than anyone.
I guess my issue is from a boatbuilders perspective, I have a pretty good understanding of the costs of making a board in a production factory in Asia and then I see the price tag and wonder where all that money is going? I once took my new board to work to do a small repair then a guy asked me how much it cost....they all pissed themselves laughing. A production board is basically the foam from your beanbag wrapped in 1950's technology. That sounds like a joke but it's really not. A few things have come along like carbon and kevlar but the total amount of cloth used is so small it would have very little effect on price.
Ka 43 I hear you on the discount thing and I hate it. I will never ask for discount in any kind of shop as I assume the shop owner has worked out the price he needs to charge to pay all his overheads and make the profit he wants. Often windsurfing shops offer discount without asking and thats fine by me. I know its a take it or leave it deal with new gear and in the last year I have bought 2 new boards. One full tote odds and one considerably discounted as it was last years model. I just cant help thinking I'm taking it in more ways than one when I pay that much.

Haircut said...

p.s it's already been esablished that some of the brands got their paint for free this year (i'll pay for some carbon, foam and epoxy resin thanks, but i'm not paying for some of those paint jobs!!)

especially when you have to fix a ding and match all those weird colours!
Plain white thanks

Maybe they should offer unpainted boards with DIY glue on pads for say $300 less?

Trouble is, that creates a base price problem that then pisses off nearly every other customer.
"What do you mean it doesn't come with a fin and foot-straps ?"
Kinda like the sticker price on a car, where the eventual price is 25% more than the sticker price. It's taken legislation to fix that one up. I'm not sure that's a good road for shops to go down.
A better one is the JP initiative this year with the gear trailer, and the lesson days. That has been sore lacking on an industry basis for a long time.
How do you get people interested in a complex sport without gear de-mysifycation and basic lessons.

Haircut said...

for the board i use 99% of the time, i'd be happy to buy without the fin and footstraps

Not sure that you can fairly compare a polyester surfboard to a windsurfer on price. The technology is worlds apart, and there is bugger all R&D in a surfboard.
Surf shops make little on boards too, and most don't even sell them at all, just the apparel.

ka43 said...

My point was to basically compare any type of purchase from any type of shop where in one you can demand a discount and in the other its just unheard of. I suppose I couldve used Hardly Normal or BJ hifi but we all know what those stores do. Its expected.
In hindsight I shouldve used the windsurf shop versus surf shop. Both personal entertainment but worlds apart in actual price you pay and how you go get that price.
Windsurfing is a bloody strange industry!!!!!!!

bullocks

been around windsurfing most of my 40 odd years and the only ones who ever made any money out of the sport were the best sailors in the 80's, Robbie, Anders, et al. the rest of us who have ever attempted the industry as a genuine source of income only ever make ends meet. Everybody wants F1 Tech but aren't willing to accept the responsibility for the fragility that comes with it, but most will accept lack of performance in Apple products, go figure. The tech in the latest generation boards is far from 'basically 50's' Fletchk, in fact it isn't that far removed from Americas Cup where I have made my living until the last cup, similar principles, engineering, materials. Those that mock the price have little understanding of the sport, I have made boards for many years and I'm more than willing to pay what ever it costs to support the local shops and keep them going so I can have options. I still play around at making boards but making boards is toxic and time consuming. Most shops have windsurfing gear as supplemental income as there is little margin in it and it doesn't exactly walk out the door like iphones. General living expenses have gone up a hell of a lot more than my annual windsurf spend and stop whining about the buck, wait till its back down to 50cents to the US, I suppose you'll have something to complain about then too. Have an OS holiday and bring some new kit back with you while the dollar is strong, problem solved... or take up golf or fishing, both equally as exciting as windsurfing I'm sure. Rant over

Uh, it's called irony dude.

Watto5 said...

Easy Brent, I agree with most of what you say but "golf or fishing, both equally as exciting as windsurfing" - now really.

KenHo said...

Uh, it's called irony dude.

Watto5 said...

Easy Brent, I agree with most of what you say but "golf or fishing, both equally as exciting as windsurfing" - now really.

Ahhh yes, now I see. Thanks a lot for that Ken. Truth be known I'm much better at sarcasm than irony, but really appreciate your insight.

FletchK, hope things go well for you OS, now is the time for all oz types to heading off with our dollar so strong, but a bad time to be earning $OS and bringing it back here. But never say for good, down under is a pretty good place at the end of the day

general info for those following this thread
50's tech is poly, chop and gel-coat. Todays windsurfers are light-years ahead of those surf board inspired days. OK, the tech isn't precisely AC or Volvo tech but I am in the industry now; supply and demand is all that needs to be said when it comes to price, we all need to make a living. Having visited a couple of factories that create todays mass market surf products, the tech is very high and the manufacturers are continually keeping up with the latest advancements that are applicable to their product and customers.
EPS has been used in AC boats in low load/rebound areas with great success, I've done it, you just can't cook it above 70c. Having made 100's of custom foam sandwich boards in the 90's and 3 hollow-prepreg boards to date for my own use, the EPS core of production boards is there for a very good reason, flotation when holed and great capacity to rebound to original form, oh and it kinda has a bit of shape to it also. Many timber veneers have properties that are in line with use and is a renewable resource, the weight/strength is as good as many man-made cores of equivalent thickness but like EPS cores, can't be cooked to any great degree.
I agree the tech race seems to be abating, more users are opting for lesser tech and gaining simplicity and durability, most have had enough of self exploding $1000+ masts for example.

jermaldan said...

The best way in my opinion is to grow the sport and creating a bigger market here in Australia. This could be be achieved if kids gear was sold at cost of below by manufacturers. In a sense this is future proofing their income stream.

If it was more affordable for juniors then there would be a bigger uptake in the sport. Or perhaps the manufacturers could give the local windsurf schools free kit, and sponsor/subsidize lessons for all. This way the cost of learning can decrease and there will be more people out there giving it a go.

The learn to windsurf series is a step in the right direction.

Coupled with some good media attention - prime time TV.