At nearly $3K a board I find it hard to justify a new one, let alone alone convincing the trouble and strife. However, in order to have a decent selection of old models or second hand boards I would think we need a decent turnover of new boards.

$3000 for a new board, yep I'm guilty. For that new board it costs me about $8.22 per day...is it worth it, yes it is....I spend twice that on lunch.

Well done Dr J, it's been a while since we've had an interesting forum debate....I'll see you on the weekend when you pick up your new $3000 JP Superlight...I bet it's worth the money, a none stop planing summer...let's hope they live up to the hype

Probably if you worked out the price of boards compared to average incomes, they are much cheaper than when windsurfing was a much bigger sport. So I don't think price in itself is stopping people from windsurfing.

You see people spend a lot more on their sport than what it would cost you to have a full quiver of gear. I'm not sure how much a ski boat would cost but I'm sure it would be enough to pay for a few boards and rigs along with an old van to carry it all around in.

jh2703 said...

Well done Dr J, it's been a while since we've had an interesting forum debate....I'll see you on the weekend when you pick up your new $3000 JP Superlight...I bet it's worth the money, a none stop planing summer...let's hope they live up to the hype

Shush dont tell everyone...... But yeah you are right no excuses this year, I will see you on Saturday.

@ Flipper4444 .... its not the shops mate, they are given a list price and a small margin, and as mentioned they rarely actually ask for the list price, or at least do their best to see that you get a deal of some sort.

and yes I am guilty of buying a new board every year, well for the last four seasons anyway, but only because I have been increasing my quiver from none to some. and generally have sold my boards once they are a couple of years old and I have outgrown them.

and yes I have been having a gripe.... but the supply to Australia is the controlling factor, dont let anyone tell you it is demand, demand is a function of price and price is a function of supply... if you control supply you control the price, and this is not just on new gear, it drives up the price of old gear as well .... across the 'board' (no pun intended).

If the market in australia is small ... then the manufacturers need to look to the future and try and stimulate newcomers and stimulate sales by lowering prices, and actively competing for our business, pumping resources in to youth programmes etc .... The RYA inthe UK has a massive youth program is there anything even closely similar to that here?

Supply is key... this year as I understand it if you see me on my JP Super Light Wind planning in 8 knots of wind (yeah yeah wishful thinking) and decide you want one..... good luck with that, I hope you find one?

fletchk said...

This is still better than my assignment

lol, I might have some old text books in the loft you can have.

Lucky for us the newly formed government will be stepping in to help out...



Sorry I'm really bored and there is crap on telly.

Ha,ha thats funny as, love that video mate! i think that windsurf crisis video would have to be the best ever well done!

KenHo said...

J Guys that buy custom boards still need all the other bits and bobs too and who would know what custom board to order if they had not tried a bunch of production boards first to develop their skill, and to know what board is what ?

They still have to buy a board or a series of boards to develop their skill. The argument I'm creating is how much can one afford to reach that skill level? I am sure there are people in the local sailboard shaping industry, albeit a tiny one, who do know their stuff and have the knowledge to craft a board to suit a person's aspirations. It's no different to a big name board brand salesman flogging a production board, the key here for both parties is to listen to the customer and make the correct recommendations.

There are 2 types of custom board customers;

1) Those who have the sailing skill to know if a production model doesn't suit them and want one made that does, and/or wants a cheaper buying experience for the same result.

2) Those who don't care about the brand and have a board made to perform reasonably well for their skill level at the shaper's recommendations and at an affordable price.

Any of the above customers can have a choice in what materials are used to make their board which is reflected in the final price. The key here is the buyer can decide on how much money they can afford or want to spend.

It's a similar theory to the old days but in those days the big European names were still far behind in using the best materials for rigidity and custom boards were superior in design, performance and at a lower price. Times have changed, production boards have caught up decades ago which made custom boards look expensive and performed just as well. But it seems the tables are turning as far as price is concerned.

If one wants to save weight and have the best materials money can buy and pay for it in a production board they can easily buy one from big name Brand X. The others can look at a local custom made board for a considerable saving that can be spent on a new dream sail. That's not to say the locally built board is inferior, it can just be made cheaper and perform competitively.

The only people who will not benefit from this scenario, and who I doubt would care due to our low volumes, are the big name board makers. If they see they are losing sales they will respond by reviewing their mark-ups which will force them to be price competitive or change their marketing strategy and offer better value.

The above is only a hypothesis, but I've noticed that the custom board market in Oz is quiet and is not promoted enough to be taken as a serious option. Now is the time for them to strike! If the local sailboard shops are smart they should offer this custom service as an alternative....just like the good old days.

windsurfers.....they get the wind for free and they want everything else for nothing!

Ok so now I have my distinction mark back from and assignment on rice in Sri Lanka I feel qualified to pass judgement on the windsurfing industry.
It all comes down to price elasticity. I would say that new gear prices are relatively in-elastic. If the price goes up by 10% the sales wouldnt change much, even 20% prob wouldnt make much change. People who want a new board are going to buy it if they can and in a country as rich as ours thats not out of the reach of lot of people. The rrp of gear is cheaper overseas just because our disposable income is higher. In other words we are getting ripped off. Dont get me wrong I'm not having a go at the LWS but instead the manufacturers. It's a total revenue and demand curve thing. Increase the price 10% and you will loose a few customers but on the whole the total revenue increases for less output. Good business on thier part while we get bent over paying $3000 for $200 worth of materials and even less of labour. I doubt the windsurfering brands are making heaps of money and I'm sure the owners dont drive datsuns but are not Bill Gates either.
And this is where I will start shooting from the hip with ill informed guess' feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
If the rrp for a new board is $3000 AUD I would love to put it on the lawn next to a cheap new hatchback and ask the manufacturers to explain. At $12000 including all the fancy car things like an internal combustion engine it makes the board look a bit pricy. There can only be a few explanations for this, the board is made using similar technology to the space shuttle (not the case) or the manufacturing process, distribution and marketing of the board is really inefficient. This becomes obvious when small local manufacturers can be cost competitive in NZ and Aus with all the associated higher business costs of manufacturing here while still making a superior product.
Enough complaining how could we change it. We could all agree on one of those dont buy petrol for a day type deals that will force the manufacturers to sort it out. If everyone didnt buy a new board for a year it would get the point across. I think this is stupid and would really only send the local shops broke. Second option might be to organise our own shipment from the cheapest country in a 20ft container. Prob would work out cheaper but again would send the LWS broke. So I guess the best option would be to support local manufacturers.

jh2703 said...

Lucky for us the newly formed government will be stepping in to help out...

Sorry I'm really bored and there is crap on telly.

Classic!

I bought a new '09 JP FSW pro edition the other day. It was $1899, compared to the cost of the 2011 model which is $2899 or something.

When I got home I noticed the original price sticker on the side of the board - $2399. That's a 20% price increase in 2 years!

Nearly all windsurfing brands deal in Euros. The gear itself doesn't come out of Europe, but the brands charge for the products in Euros (not USD, so the strength of the AUD against the USD is irrelevant, and if you look up the AUD vs EUR trend over a year or two, we're not that much better off).

The next thing is shops/importers usually take the 'conservative' road around the AUD/EUR exchange rate. If you are given a 90 day account and you are worried the AUD might drop against the EUR in 3 months time, you might just tack on a few extra cents to the exchange rate to cover your bases right? Fair enough.

The price discounts for volume orders are simply astounding. It can even be up to a 50% discount on massive orders (ie, +2,000 items over a year) which Australian importers/shops will simply never see as most of them do sail orders of 50-100 or so and boards even less.

Also from what I've seen, freight seems cheaper to Europe because at the ports in Australia they make up so many bogus fees. When I've shipped things to Europe I've just paid VAT and one handling fee on top of the freight. Shipping back to Australia there is handling fees, administration fees, loading fees, guy standing at a desk fees, GST, import, stamping a piece of paper fees, holding fees ... blah blah. And then of course the freight companies give large discount for massive volumes. There are distributors in Europe who order 5,000 boards a season. I don't think the entire Australian windsurfing industry would order that in a year ??

So yes, the prices around the World are going to be MUCH cheaper than Australia and that's probably not going to change. The thing is when you pay a little more and buy one from an Aussie shop, they'll look after you when your board delams or you break a batten and need a new tip section. Good luck with that when you bought it from warehouse sale in Germany.

i bought a new 88 litre Anders Brindall slalom board the other week for $250 from Windforce.

had been in shop since 2004 and they wanted to get rid of it quick. it had a

scratch or two on it otherwise perfect cond.

it sails great,new gear especially these short/wide boards are no better,it's all in

the mind. i do agree sails have improved a lot in feel and performance.