Camels view (i doubt anyone agree's)

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:23pm
Hamsta said...

Leave the sharks alone. If I get nibbled by a shark I will have to accept that I chose to enter their domain. I accept that I do not have 'control' over the situation.Yes, it could be viewed as gambling with life, but realistically we all do this, to varying degrees, every time we venture outside the front door. I am not making light of the pain suffered by those who have lost someone because of an attack or have been injured by a shark, but at the end of the day we all have a pretty simple choice. Surf and accept the risk/relinquish control or don't surf and retain control/find something else as a means of keeping fit etc. I don't get how surfers, kitesurfers, wind surfers, SUP riders, wave skiers, swimmers, and anyone else I've missed seems to believe that it is their 'right' to be able to surf without a twitching asshole and demand that the Government take action. Kind of like an ugly form of localism.
If it is that scary, don't go in the water. Either accept that the danger exists or don't and behave/adapt accordingly. I cannot speak for others, but I honestly get more angry at the attitudes of people in the water on some of the better days.
The good thing about SB is that everyone can put forward an opinion, even if it is 'WWWWWrrroooonggggg'


Just out of curiousity and sorry to go off topic but what are your thoughts on when Crocs, Dingo's, Bears, Lions etc attack and seriously maim or kill people.
Leave them be or look for the culprit?
Serious question BTW.
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:27pm
subasurf said...

It's protected in Australia, NZ, US, South Africa, Namibia and a few other places.

Also rbl, I wasn't posting that link in response to your comment, just a coincidence.
I am very opposed to the shark netting program over east and in south africa. This isn't just because of my interest in protecting sharks, but also in my interest in protecting everything in the ocean. The real kicker for me with shark nets is the fact that so many sharks are caught on their way out of the netted area, which shows how ineffective they are at protecting swimmers by forming a barrier.

You're right that it's only 'useful' function is the passive culling of large sharks...along with anything else that gets caught in them.

It's a ridiculous method of protecting people and has no place in WA, or anywhere in the world.


I agree. I dont think shark nets are the answer here in WA. They wouldn't have aided in the prevention of the majority of attacks that have occured.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:33pm
SP said...

jbshack said...

subasurf said...

www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/occasional_publications/fop108.pdf

A paper outlying the implications of netting beaches in West Australia.


Read that this morning Suba.
I'd like to point out point 5 and 6 on the Executive summary.

Localised fishing was shown to have reduced greatly after a few years around netted areas. SO that means even less fish stock.

Also note page 12 shows nearly 4000 animals killed for only 100 off those being Great Whites. This being just for NSW nets for a period.

Page ten then talks about the effectiveness of Performance and Impacts and opens another can of worms. Were would people suggest we net in WA

I will say i'm not super excited about the idea of surfing with baited Drums and hooks floating around me either

I'd prefer the Millions spent on this was used to build a few more artificial reefs


JB, our nets are not to specifically catch whites, if you read some more you would understand that overhere even though we have had whites attacks in the last 5 years, as well as more attacks it is not often Whites. It's more likely to be a Bull or something. And the nets are designed to break they swimming patterns, so on the 4000.... Whalers, Makos, Tigers... All ****in nasty in my book.... Do I think the by catch is good. Course not, by no reduction programme besides targeted line fishing and killing them will avoid by catch, it is virtually impossible.

And if the by catch can be sold it is. I believe.

and Suba the swimming out is not valid, they don't ever claim to make a barrier, They can turn around 2 and come back after cruising through.


Here's a rundown on the NSW programme from the people who run it.

www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/208319/FR24-shark-meshing.pdf









Yeah i'm aware of that. The report is in reference as to how it will effect or could be implemented in WA. Conclusions have been drawn from NSW, QLD and a few other places. A further interesting point is that the number of captures of GW over the period didn't change, but the by catch of others species did. Leaving them a assumption that the local fishery of other species had been reduced.
They also talk about the net and drum system is designed for local Shark populations and in WA we have a migratory system so it also may not be a good comparison for WA. Other than to reduce localised fish stock.

Oh and i think you'll find Suba's reference to sharks getting caught on the way out to sea is that the public believe that netted beaches mean that the sharks are netted out completely. So simply a placebo effect is created.

My question is having read the report im curous to know were the people who support netting, baited drum lines, were would you install them
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:37pm
rbl said...

just give fisheries more power then, leave them protected so the average punter can't have a go and give fisheries a licience to kill if need be.

ultimately the stocks of all fish need to be managed by them. If not the gw will just starve to death or kill humans as a last resort.

Fisheries should have the power to keep things in balance

surely you shark lovers don't want them to starve.




If you read the report you'd see it going to cost nearly a million bucks just to ask permision to change the law for us to do so..18 months and they may not agree to it still.

They say that when the QLD and NSW systems were originally set up no one carred about the by catch, effect on the system so to re implement today it probably wouldn't be viable.
subasurf
subasurf
WA
2154 posts
WA, 2154 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:42pm
jbshack said...

Oh and i think you'll find Suba's reference to sharks getting caught on the way out to sea is that the public believe that netted beaches mean that the sharks are netted out completely. So simply a placebo effect is created.



Exactly. I think many people would be less supportive of the destructive use of nets if they were actually given the real story. People tend to think shark nets act as a barrier between them and the sharks and they like the idea of that, despite the negative outcomes. Inform them that about 80% (can't remember the exact figure so take it lightly) of sharks caught in nets were on the INSIDE and the public start questioning the viability of nets. All of a sudden the tremendous environmental cost of the program is questionable given the ineffectiveness of the nets to truly protect swimmers.
SP
SP
10982 posts
SP SP
10982 posts
4 Sep 2012 2:56pm
jbshack said...

SP said...

jbshack said...

subasurf said...

www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/occasional_publications/fop108.pdf

A paper outlying the implications of netting beaches in West Australia.


Read that this morning Suba.
I'd like to point out point 5 and 6 on the Executive summary.

Localised fishing was shown to have reduced greatly after a few years around netted areas. SO that means even less fish stock.

Also note page 12 shows nearly 4000 animals killed for only 100 off those being Great Whites. This being just for NSW nets for a period.

Page ten then talks about the effectiveness of Performance and Impacts and opens another can of worms. Were would people suggest we net in WA

I will say i'm not super excited about the idea of surfing with baited Drums and hooks floating around me either

I'd prefer the Millions spent on this was used to build a few more artificial reefs


JB, our nets are not to specifically catch whites, if you read some more you would understand that overhere even though we have had whites attacks in the last 5 years, as well as more attacks it is not often Whites. It's more likely to be a Bull or something. And the nets are designed to break they swimming patterns, so on the 4000.... Whalers, Makos, Tigers... All ****in nasty in my book.... Do I think the by catch is good. Course not, by no reduction programme besides targeted line fishing and killing them will avoid by catch, it is virtually impossible.

And if the by catch can be sold it is. I believe.

and Suba the swimming out is not valid, they don't ever claim to make a barrier, They can turn around 2 and come back after cruising through.


Here's a rundown on the NSW programme from the people who run it.

www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/208319/FR24-shark-meshing.pdf









Yeah i'm aware of that. The report is in reference as to how it will effect or could be implemented in WA. Conclusions have been drawn from NSW, QLD and a few other places. A further interesting point is that the number of captures of GW over the period didn't change, but the by catch of others species did. Leaving them a assumption that the local fishery of other species had been reduced.

that's a big conclusion for you to draw of no data, i can make one two....the conclusion could be also be drawn that they have worked, however Whites have stayed steady cause they continue to come in close to shore, or the fact we had professional fishing for many years which has been reduced over the previous 10-15 years and we now have more baitfish and actually species that never really turned up here before now here.....or a myriad of other local factors

They also talk about the net and drum system is designed for local Shark populations and in WA we have a migratory system so it also may not be a good comparison for WA. Other than to reduce localised fish stock.

Oh and i think you'll find Suba's reference to sharks getting caught on the way out to sea is that the public believe that netted beaches mean that the sharks are netted out completely. So simply a placebo effect is created.

no one over here believes they are a barrier, they are not. People still get attacked over here JB, FFS....
They never have been and not designed to be a barrier that is completely impractical, they aren't even they're all year around or in the same spot for extended periods of times.
.

My question is having read the report im curous to know were the people who support netting, baited drum lines, were would you install them



Bolded text above

And.... Nsw haven't had a fatal since they were put in. So..... The only conclusion is by the standard used in probability and statistic here is they work...

But I agree WA has a completely different shark issue to over here and the method used here may not necessarily work over there. And it may not be the best method but it is the method that the people with education and experience as well as public safety in mind have chosen to use on this side of the country. And I'm not educated enough to argue.

Suba, it's 40% I think or that what it said in the link I posted up. And why does it matter? they don't swim in a straight line, they swim in and out, if the net is 60 metres long and the beach Is a few k's there is a better than average chance they could be caught on either side as the nets don't stop the baitfish going in and out.

Again, no one over here thinks there a barrier, it is a protection mechanism, it is not failsafe, that may be the perception in WA but not here, that is why they still have shark alarms in the surf clubs and aerial patrols etc....
Rufuss
Rufuss
7 posts
7 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:16pm
If the nets take out the large predators (like GWS and other man eaters) then there will be less around, it's a "claytons" cull in effect. So while it might not be effective in the way most people may think, it could reduce attacks all around the state by reducing numbers, assuming they're transient, which the tagging seems to indicate.

Obviously there's a host of other issues around it but it could be a way the authorities deal with a "cull" without having to do a cull. Personally, I'm not into netting but it seems it could be used by authorities in this way to avoid a public back lash on culling by "smokie".
Mask
Mask
WA
293 posts
WA, 293 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:27pm
subasurf said...

jbshack said...

Oh and i think you'll find Suba's reference to sharks getting caught on the way out to sea is that the public believe that netted beaches mean that the sharks are netted out completely. So simply a placebo effect is created.



Exactly. I think many people would be less supportive of the destructive use of nets if they were actually given the real story. People tend to think shark nets act as a barrier between them and the sharks and they like the idea of that, despite the negative outcomes. Inform them that about 80% (can't remember the exact figure so take it lightly) of sharks caught in nets were on the INSIDE and the public start questioning the viability of nets. All of a sudden the tremendous environmental cost of the program is questionable given the ineffectiveness of the nets to truly protect swimmers.


You guys are dreaming.("experts" or not) Shark nets are extremely effective in protecting swimmers by reducing the numbers of sharks in popular swimming areas. That said they do have signifcant bycatch and probably are not the best way to go in WA.
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:32pm
( . Y . )
SP
SP
10982 posts
SP SP
10982 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:38pm
doggie said...

( . Y . )


Don't like fake ones....

Here some real ones

Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:50pm
SP said...

doggie said...

( . Y . )


Don't like fake ones....

Here some real ones




My favourite type of pointers...
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 3:55pm
Woodo said...

Hamsta said...

Leave the sharks alone. If I get nibbled by a shark I will have to accept that I chose to enter their domain. I accept that I do not have 'control' over the situation.Yes, it could be viewed as gambling with life, but realistically we all do this, to varying degrees, every time we venture outside the front door. I am not making light of the pain suffered by those who have lost someone because of an attack or have been injured by a shark, but at the end of the day we all have a pretty simple choice. Surf and accept the risk/relinquish control or don't surf and retain control/find something else as a means of keeping fit etc. I don't get how surfers, kitesurfers, wind surfers, SUP riders, wave skiers, swimmers, and anyone else I've missed seems to believe that it is their 'right' to be able to surf without a twitching asshole and demand that the Government take action. Kind of like an ugly form of localism.
If it is that scary, don't go in the water. Either accept that the danger exists or don't and behave/adapt accordingly. I cannot speak for others, but I honestly get more angry at the attitudes of people in the water on some of the better days.
The good thing about SB is that everyone can put forward an opinion, even if it is 'WWWWWrrroooonggggg'


Just out of curiousity and sorry to go off topic but what are your thoughts on when Crocs, Dingo's, Bears, Lions etc attack and seriously maim or kill people.
Leave them be or look for the culprit?
Serious question BTW.


Crocs are not really as problematic as they are capable of breading at a fast rate. So Croc numbers are already being controlled effectively.
Dingos i don't know anything about.
Bears and Lions sadly are in a spot were their habitat is land locked (development) and there areas are under more and more threat and being reduced daily. So you tend to have a control area and sadly they get killed if they attack humans. But having said that there numbers are reduced significantly and there existence is a given. Once there habitate is gone so are they. Soon the only place you will ever see them is in zoos.

Sharks are a little different as we have the worlds oceans are all connected.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:04pm
SP and MAsk did you even read the report that Suba put up

What i have posted it exactly from that. The conclusion that was drawn was not by me SP, it was from Associate Professor Daryl McPhee. A report prepaired for Department of Fisheries Western Australia. Through Bond University.

soleman
soleman
WA
280 posts
WA, 280 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:07pm
SP said...

doggie said...

( . Y . )


Don't like fake ones....

Here some real ones




Stops an arguement pretty quickly, boobies are an amazing thing!!
soleman
soleman
WA
280 posts
WA, 280 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:08pm
jbshack said...

SP and MAsk did you even read the report that Suba put up

What i have posted it exactly from that. The conclusion that was drawn was not by me SP, it was from Associate Professor Daryl McPhee. A report prepaired for Department of Fisheries Western Australia. Through Bond University.




Where is Bond uni? i haven't read that article yet.
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:16pm
jbshack said...

Woodo said...

Hamsta said...

Leave the sharks alone. If I get nibbled by a shark I will have to accept that I chose to enter their domain. I accept that I do not have 'control' over the situation.Yes, it could be viewed as gambling with life, but realistically we all do this, to varying degrees, every time we venture outside the front door. I am not making light of the pain suffered by those who have lost someone because of an attack or have been injured by a shark, but at the end of the day we all have a pretty simple choice. Surf and accept the risk/relinquish control or don't surf and retain control/find something else as a means of keeping fit etc. I don't get how surfers, kitesurfers, wind surfers, SUP riders, wave skiers, swimmers, and anyone else I've missed seems to believe that it is their 'right' to be able to surf without a twitching asshole and demand that the Government take action. Kind of like an ugly form of localism.
If it is that scary, don't go in the water. Either accept that the danger exists or don't and behave/adapt accordingly. I cannot speak for others, but I honestly get more angry at the attitudes of people in the water on some of the better days.
The good thing about SB is that everyone can put forward an opinion, even if it is 'WWWWWrrroooonggggg'


Just out of curiousity and sorry to go off topic but what are your thoughts on when Crocs, Dingo's, Bears, Lions etc attack and seriously maim or kill people.
Leave them be or look for the culprit?
Serious question BTW.


Crocs are not really as problematic as they are capable of breading at a fast rate. So Croc numbers are already being controlled effectively.
Dingos i don't know anything about.
Bears and Lions sadly are in a spot were their habitat is land locked (development) and there areas are under more and more threat and being reduced daily. So you tend to have a control area and sadly they get killed if they attack humans. But having said that there numbers are reduced significantly and there existence is a given. Once there habitate is gone so are they. Soon the only place you will ever see them is in zoos.

Sharks are a little different as we have the worlds oceans are all connected.


So what's your answer to my question JB?
soleman
soleman
WA
280 posts
WA, 280 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:21pm
Woodo i reckon that is the best way to put an animal vs man question into perspective, my answer is destroy the animal that harms the human
kwalkington
kwalkington
WA
87 posts
WA, 87 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:31pm
JB your the king of seabreeze. suba your his queen, no one could ever out discuss either of you.

don't think anyone is actually pro nets but interesting the east states seem to keep how problamatic they are pretty quite.

can't see that actually knocking off a couple of whites to even the numbers is a bad thing if done by the water police etc properly. otherwise you will just get randoms doing it anyway. Better to be in a controlled approved method.

if to scared to go in for a surf in WA could actually go to bali for a surf cheaper than rotto or dunsborough anyway

flame away you location name haters and jaws lovers
Woodo
Woodo
WA
792 posts
WA, 792 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:43pm
soleman said...

Woodo i reckon that is the best way to put an animal vs man question into perspective, my answer is destroy the animal that harms the human


It happens with almost every other animal throughout the world. I just can't understand why the white shark should be any different to these other animals.

If the GWS is definitly an endagered species my opinions would be different I assure you, and that goes for killing any other species that is endagered for that matter.

If someone can give me ACTUAL FACTUAL evidence that they are an endagered species with the risk of becoming extinct or their population level is at a critically low level then prove it to me and I will gladly rethink my whole approach to the situation that we are currently seeing.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 4:46pm

Bolded text above

And.... Nsw haven't had a fatal since they were put in. So..... The only conclusion is by the standard used in probability and statistic here is they work...




A direct quote from the report. Page ten.

Effectiveness of Methods for Shark Hazard Mitigation
Shark control programs are generally considered to have improved the safety of people in the water.
The main lines of evidence that support this assertion are comparison of shark attacks before and after
implementation of shark control measures, and comparisons at locations with and without such
measures. Shark mesh nets do not create a physical barrier to sharks; rather, they affect the local and
potentially overall abundance of shark species responsible for attacks on humans. In effect, the logic is
the less large sharks that are present, all things being equal, the less chance of an attack occurring.
Approximately 40% of shark entanglements occur on the beach side of the nets, because sharks are
able to swim over and around the nets. Shark attacks are however, recorded from beaches where
shark nets are deployed (Green et al., 2009; Cliff and Dudley, 2011). Prior to their installation, there
were 37 shark attacks (18 fatal) at NSW beaches and following installation there were 23 (1 fatal)
(Green et al., 2009). The rate of fatalities is highly unlikely to be a result of meshing activities, but is
likely to be a function of improved beach front response time and first aid procedures.
bakesy
bakesy
WA
682 posts
WA, 682 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:00pm
according to Norman Moore there is no "silver bullet", so now we are hunting werewolves. To use this analogy maybe we need to look for the "garlic', "holy water" or "cross" to keep the mythological monsters at bay.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:04pm
Woodo said...

soleman said...

Woodo i reckon that is the best way to put an animal vs man question into perspective, my answer is destroy the animal that harms the human


It happens with almost every other animal throughout the world. I just can't understand why the white shark should be any different to these other animals.

If the GWS is definitly an endagered species my opinions would be different I assure you, and that goes for killing any other species that is endagered for that matter.

If someone can give me ACTUAL FACTUAL evidence that they are an endagered species with the risk of becoming extinct or their population level is at a critically low level then prove it to me and I will gladly rethink my whole approach to the situation that we are currently seeing.


There seems to be three schools of thought. Or argument in this case. The first is just people who want to flame anyone who is different to them, to argue for there side by just attacking people. That's called Bullying.

The second is the group who want proof of the numbers. Even though the pro's are saying there numbers are at decline. Even you Woodo are saying you want evidence of how many there are? Well you wont get a actual exact count but the experts are saying at best (all be it with a estimated/calculated guess) that they are at critical levels.

Then there is the third group like me who say well i'm prepared to air on the side of what the experts are saying and i can see that although it would be horrible to get attacked or eaten i think the risk is still worth it for me to surf. I don't want to change the ocean onto something its not. I'm keen to live in harmony with it and ill take the risk. Its really not as high as the media has everyone thinking.

I started again in this thread as i was keen to see what people thought of the WA government commissioned report that was realised today. I even asked a question on how do you think we can cull and by that, were would you put nets, drums? and no one has even bothered to respond. Just the usual its crap, you're wrong, you think you own the forum. The stupid type of reply that makes me wonder why i tried to think anyone else has a answer. Beyond the word Cull you'll need to start thinking a little harder.

If any of you actually did bother you would see there is a section asking for your response to the report. The government want to hear what you have to say, luckily they don't read these forums so if you want to knock out my replies than you'll need to do so on there website
soleman
soleman
WA
280 posts
WA, 280 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:20pm
about the only time the government has asked the public to comment on anything of major public interest. close to an election maybe. I haven't reponded as i have not had enough time to have a good read yet. Will do though. "(all be it with a estimated/calculated guess)" estimated the key word here by the way jbs, not sure if you have much contact with commercial fishos but they know the ocean better than anyone as they are out there nearly everyday. Ask them their thoughts, you may actually be suprised.
Zuke
Zuke
901 posts
901 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:39pm
There are a few options:

1. Do nothing and hope the problem goes away. Maybe it's a spike, a couple of bad luck years.

2. Tag and monitor and collect data to establish scientific facts. But for how long?

3. Thin them out. But how many and which ones?

4. More arial patrols. Makes the sheep feel better.

5. Nets. Even the report from over East says " The rate of fatalities is highly unlikely to be a result of meshing activities, but is likely to be a function of improved beach front response time and first aid procedures."

It's a hard one.

I've read conflicting so called "statements" from commercial operators. Some say the GW numbers are critically endangered and others say the numbers have exploded.

I'd like to hear directly from the commercial fisherman, which is it please?



Hamsta
Hamsta
505 posts
505 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:47pm
Woodo said...

Hamsta said...

Leave the sharks alone. If I get nibbled by a shark I will have to accept that I chose to enter their domain. I accept that I do not have 'control' over the situation.Yes, it could be viewed as gambling with life, but realistically we all do this, to varying degrees, every time we venture outside the front door. I am not making light of the pain suffered by those who have lost someone because of an attack or have been injured by a shark, but at the end of the day we all have a pretty simple choice. Surf and accept the risk/relinquish control or don't surf and retain control/find something else as a means of keeping fit etc. I don't get how surfers, kitesurfers, wind surfers, SUP riders, wave skiers, swimmers, and anyone else I've missed seems to believe that it is their 'right' to be able to surf without a twitching asshole and demand that the Government take action. Kind of like an ugly form of localism.
If it is that scary, don't go in the water. Either accept that the danger exists or don't and behave/adapt accordingly. I cannot speak for others, but I honestly get more angry at the attitudes of people in the water on some of the better days.
The good thing about SB is that everyone can put forward an opinion, even if it is 'WWWWWrrroooonggggg'


Just out of curiousity and sorry to go off topic but what are your thoughts on when Crocs, Dingo's, Bears, Lions etc attack and seriously maim or kill people.
Leave them be or look for the culprit?
Serious question BTW.


Crocs. There is also evidence that Crocs have taken people, some who were tourists and others who were intoxicated and those who were right place/wrong time. Crocs lifecycle is different to sharks (shorter) and they have eggs with a relatively high rate of survival.

Dingos. I think that the rouge Dingos could be captured and released away from areas popular with tourists etc. Educating people who may come into contact with Dingos may/may not work as some people would still like to feed them etc.

Bears. Apart from the 'piddling and stinking' variety that gets high on leaves, we don't have Bears here (although Wombats look a bit like a Bear that never learnt to walk and they can be aggressive little fu%&ers) In Canada and the US, Bears that become overly agressive are either moved or shot, which is a shame as it is typically the pressure put on their habitat by humans that causes interactions and sometimes aggression. I'm no Bear expert but I do know quite a few Canadian folk who are outdoorsy types and are pretty astute regarding Bears. (yeah, I know, weak anectdotal evidence)

Lions. MMMMmmmmm. Again, I suspect that it is the pressure being put on their habitat that causes the interactions that lead to fatalities.

Hippos. Fark me these things can be sociopathic and I am so glad they don't live in the oceans. Again, the pressure put on their habitat by 'progress' is why I suspect Hippos come into contact with humans. Either that or they are just evil mutherf(^*rs who suffer constantly from the pain of projectile diarrhea.

The one common link between Man v's Wild is that Man has usually f*(cked something up somewhere that has lead to an imbalance which has further compounded the problem of interaction in non controllled environment ie. Man outside cage and animal inside cage.

Only my opinion and I am not offering empirical support for what I am typing. I'm not a vegetarian, nor a vegan, I simply hold animals in pretty high regard, like most people. EDIT I figure my dietry habits come at the expense of animals (bacon especially) so perhaps I am 'compensating' for that with my views regarding sharks.
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:49pm
Zuke said...

There are a few options:

1. Do nothing and hope the problem goes away. Maybe it's a spike, a couple of bad luck years.

2. Tag and monitor and collect data to establish scientific facts. But for how long?

3. Thin them out. But how many and which ones?

4. More arial patrols. Makes the sheep feel better.

5. Nets. Even the report from over East says " The rate of fatalities is highly unlikely to be a result of meshing activities, but is likely to be a function of improved beach front response time and first aid procedures."

It's a hard one.

I've read conflicting so called "statements" from commercial operators. Some say the GW numbers are critically endangered and others say the numbers have exploded.

I'd like to hear directly from the commercial fisherman, which is it please?






I think 2 & 3. Catch two, tag one and "thin out" the other one.

One idea that I thought was good, drag dead whales out to sea and let them feast on them and tag away as they do it. Then put more of those sounder things the yellow bouys along the coast and track the hell out of them. Then make a website that gives you live readings.

Big ask I know.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:49pm
soleman said...

about the only time the government has asked the public to comment on anything of major public interest. close to an election maybe. I haven't reponded as i have not had enough time to have a good read yet. Will do though. "(all be it with a estimated/calculated guess)" estimated the key word here by the way jbs, not sure if you have much contact with commercial fishos but they know the ocean better than anyone as they are out there nearly everyday. Ask them their thoughts, you may actually be suprised.


I do and i have..

For what its worth I believe that the Ocean is out of balance. Im not sure on the answer but i think it best left alone as much as possible. Honestly the threat of being killed by a Shark is still so low its just plain ridiculous to even argue it. IMHO

I love the ocean. If i was a hiker and my wilderness areas were being destroyed I'd be just upset. Honestly i'm surprised that people don't seem to care about her. I'd prefer to walk away from the water for the right reasons than destroy it for my own selfish gain

Oh and wanting to spend millions and millions of dollars on making people feel safer were that money could be channelled to fight child hood cancer, or feeding the third world children is selfish in my eyes.
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:51pm
jbshack said...

soleman said...

about the only time the government has asked the public to comment on anything of major public interest. close to an election maybe. I haven't reponded as i have not had enough time to have a good read yet. Will do though. "(all be it with a estimated/calculated guess)" estimated the key word here by the way jbs, not sure if you have much contact with commercial fishos but they know the ocean better than anyone as they are out there nearly everyday. Ask them their thoughts, you may actually be suprised.


I do and i have..

For what its worth I believe that the Ocean is out of balance. Im not sure on the answer but i think it best left alone as much as possible. Honestly the threat of being killed by a Shark is still so low its just plain ridiculous to even argue it. IMHO

I love the ocean. If i was a hiker and my wilderness areas were being destroyed I'd be just upset. Honestly i'm surprised that people don't seem to care about her. I'd prefer to walk away from the water for the right reasons than destroy it for my own selfish gain

Oh and wanting to spend millions and millions of dollars on making people feel safer were that money could be channelled to fight child hood cancer, or feeding the third world children is selfish in my eyes.


Have you done any work today JB
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:52pm


I'd like to hear directly from the commercial fisherman, which is it please?



People i know will say that the big sharks have followed there boats for years. But seem to be a little more keen for a free hand out these days.
jbshack
jbshack
WA
6913 posts
WA, 6913 posts
4 Sep 2012 5:55pm
doggie said...

jbshack said...

soleman said...

about the only time the government has asked the public to comment on anything of major public interest. close to an election maybe. I haven't reponded as i have not had enough time to have a good read yet. Will do though. "(all be it with a estimated/calculated guess)" estimated the key word here by the way jbs, not sure if you have much contact with commercial fishos but they know the ocean better than anyone as they are out there nearly everyday. Ask them their thoughts, you may actually be suprised.


I do and i have..

For what its worth I believe that the Ocean is out of balance. Im not sure on the answer but i think it best left alone as much as possible. Honestly the threat of being killed by a Shark is still so low its just plain ridiculous to even argue it. IMHO

I love the ocean. If i was a hiker and my wilderness areas were being destroyed I'd be just upset. Honestly i'm surprised that people don't seem to care about her. I'd prefer to walk away from the water for the right reasons than destroy it for my own selfish gain

Oh and wanting to spend millions and millions of dollars on making people feel safer were that money could be channelled to fight child hood cancer, or feeding the third world children is selfish in my eyes.


Have you done any work today JB


Just , even sold a boat..
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply

Return To Classic site 😭
Or... let us know if a problem, so we can tweak! 😅