SP said..

I think u missed the point JB.

Great posts Legion.

I don't think i missed it at all. When i started at maybe 13 i knew my place, but i didn't have older guys trying to take my gear of me..Ive seen this kind of behaviour and frankly its often not about teaching a "nice cuddly" lesson that Legion is now trying to paint. Its more about stupid guys who think they are better then others and they have right of way. Localism is often just about forming a small gang, for want of a better word, to try and get seniority over a spot.. Its about making fun at someone else's expense. Wait for it, its called Bullying..

All spots i surf can be localised, most spots are busy, its just how it is.

But maybe your right in one point SP. I don't surf to justify how good i am, i don't surf to prove anything. I surf to have a good time. That can come in a vary of ways. I can comfortably say though, it wouldn't come from sitting back and watching a junior get hassled..So if that attitude makes me a Adult beginner, thats your call, but i can guarantee i won't have any issue catching waves were eve i paddle out if i want some..Even Disney Land

Legion,
Are you on the woof or what ?
Those posts are very long

I got a bit off track there in response to jb's moral outrage, sorry. Potential new cause, jb? The Plight of Australian Grommets?

The point is (as it relates to some posts in this thread, but not the OPs), sometimes the hierarchy at breaks isn't determined by what happened in the last 10 minutes, it's determined by what happened in the last 10 years. Who grew up with who, who was above/below who at school, who was part of a team with who competing in a boardriders comp back in '93. If you want to push in to that hierarchy or even worse push in front of that hierarchy, it's difficult and bound to end in frustration for someone. It's like that at some of the dinky little breaks I surf, let alone at some of the big-name breaks Australia and worldwide.

This is what I was trying to illustrate to new suppers, that without an awareness of some particular spots, sometimes the unspoken rules are very complex and it's not as simple as it seems. You can't just expect equal footing (or worse! better footing) with everyone else.

On these points I know Nick disagrees chrispy, but it's still the way it is. Applies to almost everyone.

Beer ..... I want to blog about beer ..... gettin' some nice waves this weekend too ..... smoking hot Goldie Gals also ..... not much else is all that interesting ..... oh scooping Lotto is cool

Lacey ... where's that bloody ex-Prez

Well everything you have said is how I grew up....then sadly,like the rest of the world,civil libertarians and do gooders have ****ed up the systems....

I still think nick would agree

Legion said..

jbshack said..

I don't think i missed it at all. When i started at maybe 13 i knew my place, but i didn't have older guys trying to take my gear of me..Ive seen this kind of behaviour and frankly its often not about teaching a "nice cuddly" lesson that Legion is now trying to paint. Its more about stupid guys who think they are better then others and they have right of way. Localism is often just about forming a small gang, for want of a better word, to try and get seniority over a spot.. Its about making fun at someone else's expense. Wait for it, its called Bullying..

Just wait until I tell you about what goes on to apprentice tradies. You're going to have a heart attack or maybe a stroke ...

Try to concentrate on the Plight of the Grommets after the Drum Lines. We'll do Apprentices next year.

This bloke is living in the dark ages, now he's suggesting that apprentice abuse. Is still the norm !

I rest my case !

SandS said..
This bloke is living in the dark ages, now he's suggesting that apprentice abuse. Is still the norm !

Is it not? I don't know, I'm not a tradie. But I was a labourer once upon a time and was used to not getting all the cushy jobs, for sure. Longest hours, dirtiest jobs on the crew. You know, that hierarchy thing again. Maybe I should go back to labouring if things have changed.

I would put money on if I asked young grommie whether his feewings were hurt by the nasty buwwying, he'd say "nah, I'm right" and secretly be pretty damn stoked at being accepted into the group.

Maybe I'm the naive one in this new age world and dinosaurs like me and a few others are a dying breed. I was still glad to see it that day though.

As I said, others also got feewings hurt by being dropped in on. Two or three people intentionally dropping in on many, many waves. Guys pushing each other off their boards and tipping each other up. There were tears and screams of indignation and outrage all up and down the beach.

Grommie got tipped off a couple of times, board stolen and pushed away once or twice, he stole the thief's board briefly, dropped in on many times. He definitely got it the worst of everyone but how naive of me, I somehow missed his bawling and crying (but didn't fail to notice everyone else crying and stamping their feet).

Read the first sentence of that paragraph again. Is that bullying? What about the previous paragraph, when everyone was doing the same to everyone else? Is that different? Why? If he took it in good humour, does that change the outcome?

I kind of feel sorry for you, jb. Friends and mates play pranks on each other, all the time. You obviously missed out on all that. grommie was being included.

At no stage was he physically hurt or in danger. I feel like some kind of touchy-feely tree-hugger even having to explain this to the PC brigade.

Air80 said..
put some math into it on average the period of waves is every 7-10 seconds = 6 waves a minute, 360 waves an hour 10 hrs of daylight = 3600 waves a day ---- at one break.........

I want to surf where you surf. Around here, I'd put it closer to a decent three wave set every five minutes on an average day, or about a tenth of the amount of waves of your spot. 30 guys out, that's 12 waves every day if you surf all day. Or if you surf for an hour, about 1.2 waves an hour. It's better on the days with only 20 out, you get 1.8 waves an hour. I'm moving though - where do you live?

Legion said..

SandS said..
This bloke is living in the dark ages, now he's suggesting that apprentice abuse. Is still the norm !

Is it not? I don't know, I'm not a tradie. But I was a labourer once upon a time and was used to not getting all the cushy jobs, for sure. Longest hours, dirtiest jobs on the crew. You know, that hierarchy thing again. Maybe I should go back to labouring if things have changed.

I would put money on if I asked young grommie whether his feewings were hurt by the nasty buwwying, he'd say "nah, I'm right" and secretly be pretty damn stoked at being accepted into the group.

Maybe I'm the naive one in this new age world and dinosaurs like me and a few others are a dying breed. I was still glad to see it that day though.

As I said, others also got feewings hurt by being dropped in on. Two or three people intentionally dropping in on many, many waves. Guys pushing each other off their boards and tipping each other up. There were tears and screams of indignation and outrage all up and down the beach.

Grommie got tipped off a couple of times, board stolen and pushed away once or twice, he stole the thief's board briefly, dropped in on many times. He definitely got it the worst of everyone but how naive of me, I somehow missed his bawling and crying (but didn't fail to notice everyone else crying and stamping their feet).

Read the first sentence of that paragraph again. Is that bullying? What about the previous paragraph, when everyone was doing the same to everyone else? Is that different? Why? If he took it in good humour, does that change the outcome?

I kind of feel sorry for you, jb. Friends and mates play pranks on each other, all the time. You obviously missed out on all that. grommie was being included.

At no stage was he physically hurt or in danger. I feel like some kind of touchy-feely tree-hugger even having to explain this to the PC brigade.

Yes you are a dinosaur, and as for a dying bread, thank god for that..

I Wont continue on here, because this thread was started to help a guy who is getting verbal abuse by some grumpy old dinosaurs in the surf. But if you wanted to start another thread about just what bullying is mate id be glad to hear, how its okay for a pack of blokes to pick on individual and what makes that okay

I come from the bully era - surf and trade and that's what it was even back then - bullying by bully boys . There no other explanation for it. Im done

Geez, three pages and only a handful of smart-rse one-liners.....the boys are right about the bullying and carry on in the water being too old school. But that's what I grew up with too, and I'd have to generally agree with Legion about the order in the lineup that ensued (save for the paranoid fool who occupies almost every lineup) and the issue of the mature-age learner not understanding the concept of apprenticeship or their own danger potential in the water. I agree to a point with Air80, but there needs to be some order in the water commensurate with familiarity with the break, ability and whether its your turn. Given that beginners don't often understand these things, I wonder what other options there are for some sort of order. You only have to surf Torquay point in Xmas holidays to see how pear-shaped and dangerous it can get with loads of beginners in the water.

Since the incident in question (which I can handle, it's just that my wit failed me miserably), i was talking to one of the boys and he told me that the bloke in question moved down from melbourne about 5 years ago and must have had something happen with sups as he apparently orders every supper in! Funny that I surf out there a lot and have never seen him. And he's no dinosaur, more like mid-40s......ooops showing my age there. I surf all the name breaks around Torquay and rarely get hassled, and have even had the good old boys ask me to have a word with the greedy sups in the water. If you pay respect, wait your turn and don't blow set waves things are generally ok, plus if you call people into sets/let them know one is coming it keeps everyone on side too.

Anyway, I was after your wit, folks.......c'mon c'mon.

macs said..

i agree gizzie....say hi to guy for me ...

Am sure guy must be okay......haven't really noticed him lately.
Still see "pipe fins" advertised occasionally on trade me

This topic has become so diverse I suspect I can sneak my favourite Gidget surfing vid in

I think the point you guys are missing that Legion is trying get across is , the Sup has taken out the crawl before you walk phase in surfing which is causing all the problems. Anyone that is half decent on a shortboard has put years into it to get to that stage , along the way they learn the rules & respect code that goes with it. But the Sup has enabled punters to get into the line up in just months or weeks. I'm talking about Sup riders who have never surfed before and all of a sudden they are in the line up oblivious to who is surfing around them. It's the new breed of Sup Super Kooks that is blowing it for the seasoned Suppers.

The second phase of the SSK is he gets better , grows horns and starts catching everything burning even more surfers and cleaning them up when he gets caught in front of them. Phase 3 is worst they worst when they start backing themselves beyond their ability taking off out wide and not making the take off and landing on them as they duck dive. It's up to us (seasoned Suppers) to go over to these guys and sit down and tune them on what's right and wrong.

Might seem a bit harsh but that's reality. I'm so sick of pulling up to a carpark or paddling out and copping stink eye before I have even caught a wave but that's why it is. Teach respect and show respect and things will change and if it's a super crowded spot go somewhere else , that's the best part of being on a Sup we can surf anything and let the shortboard floxum drop in on each other in peace.

Peace Out

colas said..

Legion said..

When you were at school, do you reckon the year 8s had the same rights as the year 12s?

Yes, and it is what is called civilization. What did you learn in school?
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

Dear Colas sorry to tall you this , don't need to go to school to know the surfing rules.
Pyros told the truth about the second form

I think im going to get some SSK t-shrts made for when I surf