sirgallivant said..
As the occasion requires, l might perch on the seat or somewhere comfy according to wind and water.
Because l sail single handed most of the time l use the auto pilot a lot. After balancing the sails to my best knowledge l flick on the ST 2000 and l might be on the bow or up at the mast or below at the chart table while the auto pilot drives the boat. I do not race. It is pure fun, l am seeking enjoyment not glory.

Hi Sirgallivant

The reason i asked is because when you look at the photo the bar looks like it would get in the way of your legs if you were sitting on the cockpit seat

Regards Don

Don l do not sit on the cockpit seat behind the traveller at all, l am way too tall for that, l perch on the c o r n e r seat up high hence the tiller extension! From that siting position the cross member is a brilliant foot support.
The corner seat is hard to see on the foto as it is in level with the eye. Occasionally l sit on the coaming but it is hard on the butt.
The pic explains it better.

(Looks like we managed to hijack this thread! Sorry!

It made sense in a seaway, but not at anchor with the love of your life.

My layout allowed me to have saloon berths (that is, it had long berths that ran through the saloon and became vee berths forward) but I've modified it so you have a double vee berth in the bow separated by a bulkhead, two comfortable sitting/reclining spots in the saloon, and the two quarter berths aft. Offshore you have the option of slinging a pipe cot over the galley/seat area in the saloon, but for overnighters you normally only have one person in a quarter berth. The high cabin top means you can sleep on the windward side with your legs over the rail comparatively comfortably......

I understand the interest in the open plan layout, but when living aboard it drove me nuts. I think in the long term humans need a change of scenery, and a separate cabin provides that.

This is another not insignificant use of that bar, Donk!
Again, a picture tells a thousand words. That is 50 litre diesel in those jerrys.

That settee/bunk layout is excellent. The modern vessels double quarter berth is about the only set up that would be better.

Ramona said..
That settee/bunk layout is excellent. The modern vessels double quarter berth is about the only set up that would be better.

Thanks. The stbd quarter berth in that pic is full of junk. It is actually large enough to be used as a double.

However, it is still only a 30 footer. Though there is the physical capability of berthing 7 people, I will leave that to the people smugglers.

I would not consider overnight cruising with more than 4 people aboard. It would be ideal for a young family (2 adults and 2 children say up to mid teens) as a travelling home.

cisco said..

Ramona said..
That settee/bunk layout is excellent. The modern vessels double quarter berth is about the only set up that would be better.

Thanks. The stbd quarter berth in that pic is full of junk. It is actually large enough to be used as a double.

However, it is still only a 30 footer. Though there is the physical capability of berthing 7 people, I will leave that to the people smugglers.

I would not consider overnight cruising with more than 4 people aboard. It would be ideal for a young family (2 adults and 2 children say up to mid teens) as a travelling home.

I'm with Cisco, but maybe more so.

Cruising with four on anything under 34 ft is a challenge. We often had two adults and two young teenagers (12-14) on MB for a few days in Broken Bay and that was OK. I couldn't see me trying it offshore nor for more than a week or so.

Offshore passages with three onboard is crowded on a 34ft boat. You need more personal space to move around when the boat is moving a lot. Overnight with most crew in their bunk it isn't an issue. During the day with everybody up it is. With four onboard it would be quite frustrating.

IMHO you need a 38ft or better to cruise with 4. Room for a couple of cabins or similar. My sister's Valiant 40 comes to mind as a good size for 3 or 4, but better with two.

Racing is different. Off watch crew are out of the way in their bunk. Maximising boat speed and the urge to beat that bastard just on the horizon means you accept discomfort. And races are usually only a day to a few days.

Any more than 4 adults in the cockpit on mine when day sailing starts to get a bit squashy

Regards Don

Well here's a ladies land yacht for you Cisco



I found this tonight

samsturdy said..

Gotta love it HG.

Cisco......you forgot the Santana 28. The best 28footer EVER made.

Hey samsturdy.........I found this on sailboat data but it is an American yacht and probably not the boat you are referring to.

sailboatdata.com/sailboat/santana-28

I have looked up a few of the brokerage sites and have not been able to find a listing on one. With the name Santana it will likely be built by Northshore Yachts.

Do you have any pics or specs you can post up??

The Santana 28 we have here is not the US Santana 28. Our one is the earlier Gary Mull designed Santana 27, with a foot of reverse transom added to make it 28' long.

We also have the Santana 22, which is their Santana 22. We also have a Santana 30, the Doug Peterson half tonner known in the UK as the Contention 30, but it's completely different to the US Santana 30 which is a Shad Turner design. And to make it all very simple we have the US Santana 20, another Shad Turner design, but the copy we have here is called the Crossfire 20. All very clear....not.

The 22 and 28 were built by Gordon Woods who had a company called Santana Yachts, I think. The Crossfire 20 copy was made by an ex Californian whose factory burned down, perhaps because Santana found out that he had flop-moulded their design. I think NS built a couple of S30s but that was all.


PS for 25-30 footers I'd throw in the Noelex 30 (a trailable boat that can do the Sydney-Hobart, although she's closer to 31'); the stunning one-off 27 JOG racer/cruiser State of the Ark; Bonbridge 27; Spencer Serendipity 28 (there are a lot of slow ones with idiosyncratic interiors around, though); the Young 88 (space, pace, and room, but I'm not 100% sure whether she is a great offshore boat for her size if the conditions get truly scary), and some others I'll remember later. The Endeavour 26 is not a boat I've sailed on, but it seems to be a fine all-rounder. There are some lovely little 27-28 foot Knoop and Superstition designs down in Tassy that are like baby half tonners - fast, solid, safe and roomy. The Seaway 25 is a good combination of trailability, offshoreability, raceability and cruisability.

There is no problem whatsoever with the right lift keel boat IMHO, and the safety and comfort of a good outboard can rival a diesel in many ways. One of the tiny number (I think it's just two) of older half tonners that have sunk off Oz was sunk when her prop got stuck on something and cracked the hull. Many other boats have fouled their inboard prop while trying to recover MOBs or after losing rigs and therefore become disabled. I've never heard of any of the numerous outboard-powered offshore boats being lost directly or indirectly because of the engine.

At 28' and over 2 tonnes my boat is at the top end of the size range for an outboard and so far I haven't seen any conditions in which the 9.8 Tohatsu couldn't drive the boat efficiently.

Hi Chris and Cisco.....yes that is my boat. Thanks for the info Chris. It's a beautiful boat
and I'm very pleased with her.

Hi everyone,
First time poster and responder... A great forum.
Holland 25 & Holland 30 are totally different boats. I sailed my '30 'Screw Loose' back from from PNG, a trip few '25 owners would contemplate. The '25 looks a bit like an inverted flying saucer, no hull depth, whereas the '30 has significantly greater hull depth.
Tophats have a solid red wine glass hull profile and I've sailed em solo and with others along the NSW coast confidently. Start with a Toppy!

The Top Hat was my first yacht. Its the pick of the bunch. Some have circumnavigated.
I used to race on a Holland 25, it never felt safe when the wind was 25knots and over. You would have to have lots of sailing dinghy experience to contemplate owning one!

Here you go for a Top Hat, just listed...go to Facebook then Top Hat Yachts and see this....

For sale. Great little boat. 8 hp in well. Metho stove. Toilet. Auto tiller. 4 headsails. $6500. Dolans bay port hacking.

Look under name of Mark Fretwell.