niaychi said...
Iam not stirring the pot as usual,i asked a question regarding wheels you now tell me that a blokart is elligable to compete with other mini yachts in breach of the mini rules,so by your answer i can use blokart wheels on my mini

Yes you can use blokart wheels and be within the rule.

I think some are being a tad pedantic here.

Seems to me that the general intent of the rule is that it is inclusive of all mini yachts provided:-


Any fully assembled sand yacht wheel footprint fits inside a loop of rope 5.6m long, and the maximum wheel size is 4.00 x 8,(wheelbarrow style), and it has a tubular / circular mast without wing sections.

Now that is pretty easy to understand. It says "wheelbarrow style" not "off a wheelbarrow" so it would suggest an "off the shelf" wheel is what is desired.

If you got a set of rims turned up from Titanium I think that would fall outside the intent of the rule.

Now that we have the wheels sorted what part of the yachtdoes "without wing sections" refer to

I'm just waiting for someone to ask the questions....
"Is a mini yacht sailing on salt, mud, grass, gravel, asphalt or concrete still a mini yacht?"
or "Must mini yacht races always be held on sand?"
or "Is a sand yacht different from a land yacht?"

Sometimes I just wonder....

Hmmm, Interesting !

@ Gizmo , yes I would also call it a mini no matter how big the sail was or how small the wheels were once it fitted the 5.6m loop of rope and it could even be sailing on water or ice for all we care LoL, , its still a mini on any surface and if it works on your chosen surface you can race them on any surface you like !

@ desertyank - Test Pilot 1, yes wing section refers to the mast AND Sail ( eg class Standart type sails with wing shaped formers inserted not allowed).

@ Nikrum, Cisco , landyacht, niaychi and everyone else

The wheels !
Firstly , some clarity , there was a slight "lost in translation" and " lost in local terminology " in the written version of the rule and this will be clarified officialy next opportunity but everyone is complying with the original intent of the rule . ie, The max wheel size is actually intended as the the max TYRE size of 400x8. as commonly sold into Europe . This size is that of what is traditionally called a wheel barrow tyre in most countries.

The Wheel can be made of anything you like but a preference is for the plastic barrow type wheel to be used, so make em in titanium if you like but dont exceed the tyre size ! If the max of 400 x 8.00 tyre size is too big for you well then feel free to use smaller Blokart type size wheels and tyres or go smaller again if you like, just not bigger !.

When not racing or competing with other miniyachts (which includes Blokart and X-Sails which are now miniyachts by virtue of this rule etc etc ) use whatever wheel and tyre you want - eg Bigfoots for all terrain etc

@ Cisco, Nikrum - Clarity on the 5.6m rope rule - 5.6m is 5.6m and not 5.62 - the rope loop can only be 5.6m so no stretching allowed obviously.

The rule is also having some clarity included on the measurement by rope loop but it is being respected as intended by all at present.
The rule will have the following added,

'The rope must lie on the ground. The touching part of the tyres on the ground must fit inside the rope '

Other proposal formulated at the FISLY meeting of 22.01.2011:
' wheel size is maximum 400x8' is to be changed to 'the tyre size' .

You can put whatever pressure you want into your tyres of up to this size and yes it will change the profile and foot print of the miniyacht but if it! fits inside that loop of rope 5.6m long on the ground its ok .


Remember that common sense should always prevail and the KISS approach is paramount to having fun.

All inclusive is the intent , get people out sailing and progressing is the intent and I take responsibility for the rule being so simple. I was the proposer of this rule to the FISLY council and one of the people who pushed for this recognition for miniyachts for years and years recognising that it is the way to introduce new people to the sport.
There are always minor language and local interpretation dificulties in any multi lingual and multi national organisations - hence the wee tweaks to the rule as outlined above.

Hope this helps and this debate is brilliant as it tells me the rule is a success and doing as I intended and hoped it would, as I said above.

Keep asking but do more telling others !

So go forth and KISS

Cheers

Alan ( now a FISLY Vice President !)

Alan,
Thanks for the clarifications.
Yup! Forums is Great Mate, they is the stuff what keeps the Grey Matter functioning..

I agree with you on the Fun thing BUT! There are those that get very serious about their fun and that is when a Rule Should Have a set of Solid Parameters to prevent Arguments and the Winning At All Costs mentality. I was taught in School (Cripes! that was a long time ago) that it was always good to Win but the Playing of the Game was more important.. "It is not whether you win or loose but how you play the Game". This is a Credo that was thrown out the window long hence gone. 'tis a great pity and now businesses are built on sport..
The GOD DAMNED! Almighty Dollar.. (No I ain't a believer) (No let us not go there)

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Burger in one hand, Beer in the other, totally worn out and screaming 'YAHOOOOOOOOOO! what a ride!'
Ron

desertyank - Test Pilot 1, yes wing section refers to the mast AND Sail ( eg class Standart type sails with wing shaped formers inserted not allowed).
Then the rule should state "no wing section for mast and/or sail" to clarify

Preferably a 10" Ships Hawser!
Ron

Paul and IPSKA,
This could get Bloody[}:)] It must be coincidence but the wheel and tires we are talking about just Happen to be around 400mm OD so to those of us that aren't familiar with smaller dia none Road Tires can get a little off the beaten path. I just naturally ASS/U/ME-D that the 400/480 X 8" referred to the OD of the tire and the Rim size with out giving it a lot of thought. One lives and learns.. The day I stop should be the Day they cover my Face. Paul that was not a nice thought..
Ron

PS; I understand that some measurements can refer to the Bead to Bead OD??

Test pilot 1 said...

Bead to bead would be ID

agreed; we need an O>D> measurement (I think it's about 16" and (84549832865mm's) if my conversion is correct [}:)]

The guys here are racing 'mini's ' with scooter tires that are DOT approved, and measure approx 16" too. would they be legal under FISLY?

Dang! What a pedantic lot you are!! Bead to bead can be any of several (Relative to application) measurements. As a tire is not a trapped surface and has several ways of gaining the said measurements
i.e;
1 Bead to bead (My thought) from the bead on one side around the outside to the Bead on the opposed side.
2 From the bead one one side around the inner surface to the bead on the opposed side.

3 Bead to Bead via the shortest distance with the tire laying neutral. This measurement can vary according to the weather conditions at the time as well as other factors

4. Bead to bead across the Radius of the tire, which can vary on a given OD depending on the style of Rim to be used. In my case 6 X 6 Aircraft tires.

There NOW!! Have I covered all bases Now let us not be Overly Foolish about this.

Ron

PS: Would you like me to go into the Physics of Trapped and Non Trapped Surfaces???[}:)]

I agree Clem, The idea behind the home built mini(thanks Paul) was to build a small cheap yacht with little restrictions. Maybe some of us went a bit quick into trying new ideas (large back wheels), but when the 5.6m was accepted, I was happy to change the wheels. Lets build and sail the things and encourage people into the class without getting to hung up on every detail. Maybe 400mm maximum outside diameter tyre would stop the confusion.
Cheers
Vic

so its vics fault?
looks like your 6.00x6 rims are out , which is a pity as they are well within the spirit of the class, cheaper than 4.00x8 rims and the tyres almost free and long lasting, better quality rubber

Sorry guys I meant 400mm outside tyre diameter



agree Clem, The idea behind the home built mini(thanks Paul) was to build a small cheap yacht with little restrictions. Maybe some of us went a bit quick into trying new ideas (large back wheels), but when the 5.6m was accepted, I was happy to change the wheels. Lets build and sail the things and encourage people into the class without getting to hung up on every detail. Maybe 400mm maximum outside diameter Tyre would stop the confusion.
Cheers
Vic

Ron it fits inside the 5.6m rope ,actually with room to spare. Using the larger wheels would require sailing in a different class which does not exist.
Cheers
Vic

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/mini-yacht/?page=1

aus230 said...
Maybe 400mm maximum outside diameter Tyre would stop the confusion.

But giving just a maximum diameter doesn't comply with the intent of the rule for the Mini Class, The main intent from how I see it is they wanted people to use the more rugged wheel barrow wheels [style] rather than bike wheels etc. (perhaps for safety)

Yes Vic you are a whizz at wheel building but I would have thought that a beginners yacht should use easy to obtain, off the shelf components. We want to get people into the sport not scare them off.

Gizmo said...

Let get back to basics, what was the mini class set up to do? .... A compact yacht to get newcomer's into the sport, and to group small yachts together... NOT to create a race class. (Class5 and CL5 promo are there for that)