BrisKites said...

Kitepower Australia said...

Fair enough Jason. I'm just amazed and frustrated that someone working for a reputable shop would be silly enough to diss Cabrinha and Ozone kites. Agree the Evo would be ok, disagree that the bar is a well built/designed bit of kit. There are dozens of threads about rapid center line wear and other issues with the center hole. There are also dozens of threads on this forum and others about valve delam, batten issues, and tearing, denial is just a river in Egypt.

Why are you telling me this? I havent mentioned the instructor as neither you or I know who he is. Where did it say he works for a shop?
Also with the bar, where did I mention the North bar? It's almost like your using conversations to push your own agenda Steven.
The current North centre hole is sacrificial plastic and none of our 2013 ropes are showing signs of wear. We also haven't had a single valve delimitation on any 2012 or 2013 North kite. Or any batten issues.

Right, sure, instruction was taking place in Sandgate, which shop sells North in that area??? Keep it real Jason.
Where did I accuse you of something about the bar or anything in fact? I guess brand new ropes will not be showing any sign of wear, but to try to have us beleive that used ones show no sign of wear is BS, and everyone knows it. The bar works, no argument, chicken loop is good, but uncovered centre line sucks and so does changing one.
I've seen plenty of 2012 kites with valve delam, there are reports on forums including this one.

BrisKites said...

Kitepower Australia said...
The existence of an extra ripstop thread will not stop a split from happening over virtually the same fabric made by the same company (Teijin) called Technoforce, that almost all other top brands are made from.

Who said the only difference with the D2 was the addition of an extra thread?
I do a lot of repairs here and the difference in the damage to kites is clearly visible. Not marketing, not a pipe dream but real world results in limiting canopy damage.

Not me, I mentioned an extra thread and a coating system, same coating that is used on the Teijin Technoforce cloth used on all other kites, and same as many sailcloth brands using double thread ripstop for well over a decade, its hype.
I'll go through my repair books and get back to you, every repair is recorded here.

BrisKites said...

Kitepower Australia said...
Cabrinha kites have used a double ripstop material on their kites for several years and I believe that D2 fabric was simply something created to bolster then image of the brand that bought the sole rights to that product for a few years.

I thought we were discussing the canopy, not the leading edge.

We are talking about the canopy, Cab have been using double ripstop, specially coated cloth, on their high end kites for several years, no doubt thats why the other brand pounced on the idea they "invented" LOL!

Now that you mention LE material, all the better brands use Dimension Polyant fuse bonded dacron, however some don't, they use a cheaper and far less durable cloth made in China, that is made to look like the DP cloth, and guess who uses that cloth?

BrisKites said...

Kitepower Australia said...
As far as I'm aware there are no reputable kites made with a material made in Korea? Teijin D2 and Technoforce, of which 80% of kite canopies are made is made in Japan. Neil Pryde/Cabrinha use cloth manufactured to their own specs from a variety of leading manufacturers listed here www.neilprydesails.com/component/users/?view=login&Itemid=101

There are companies using Korean cloth.
I never mentioned Cabrinha and their cloth but since you broached the topic yes the cloth used on many Cabrinha kites over the years has in my opinion proven to be far inferior to Teijin.

The way I see it is we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs but in the end they are just that

No you advised beginners to avoid kites with Korean made cloth, (but how would they know).
I stated that as far as I know there are no kites made with Korean manufactured cloth.
I posted a link to a list of sailcloth manufacturers used by Neil Pryde, they are open and proud to list the suppliers. If there was an issue with an Cabrinha kites they were replaced, but they were minimal, and the cloth now is extremely durable. I like that they have continued to R&D for the best cloth for kite canopies. Teijin is good too, but it is not superior to all others, its just good, well known and well marketed.

Rophuine has now stated that he will likely purchase an Evo, lets leave it at that and hopefully that instructor will get some feedback not to diss other reputable and suitable brands.

Ha ha welcome to the forum. Yeh discussion does get out of hand sometimes. but passionate kiters have passionate things to say.

But.... Instructors can and generally are the first point of contact with a new kiter. To say I prefer say the north range in this case the EVO is very different to saying stay away from such brands even if it is a passing comment. Especially as he particularly mentioned two other well known and respected brands, tired or not It is bad form.

Why, because a new kiter has developed trust with their instructor and can take their opinion as gospel.

So what your post serves ( and well done by the way) is for other new kiters out there is to do their own research (as you are now doing) and realise an agenda when one sees one.

For the record his advice is sound the EVO is a bloody great kite.

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

I got the Evo 12 in the end - the reviews seem to be great, I love the sound of all the bar features, and it sounds like they've acknowledged the line wear problem and done something about it. Probably the awesome promo video had a lot to do with it as well.

Rophuine said...
Thanks for the welcome everyone.

I got the Evo 12 in the end - the reviews seem to be great, I love the sound of all the bar features, and it sounds like they've acknowledged the line wear problem and done something about it. Probably the awesome promo video had a lot to do with it as well.

Good choice mate, I'm just a beginner (have lesson 3 today) and I got a 12m evo after my first lesson. It's so easy to control & it practically relaunches itself when it goes for a drink!!
I'm sure you'll be as pleased as me with the evo.

Rophuine said...
Thanks for the welcome everyone.

I got the Evo 12 in the end - the reviews seem to be great, I love the sound of all the bar features, and it sounds like they've acknowledged the line wear problem and done something about it. Probably the awesome promo video had a lot to do with it as well.

Welcome to the sport. Baptism of fire on the kite brand thing, huh? Ill leave my personal opinion out of it, you have probably heard enough.

One thing I was glad I did as a beginner: read reviews, buy lots of various second hand kites for cheap. This taught me; how to repair, differences in shapes/ designs, types of features I like and dont like, and also equipped me with a pretty decent quiver (even though over half my kites I dont really use any more). The cost is less (than buying brand new), you learn heaps, and you form your own opinion. Plus, if you become an instructor (like me) you have some old kit to teach mates on for a slab of beers, and dont get to upset if one rips in half! In NZ we can do that sort of thing without raising heckles, its nice.

KitePower is always right, everyone should know that!

Maybe, but he's spot on about the stupid north depower line. Coming from someone who spent hours and I mean hours trying to change those Farqin things. Its a fact not fiction unless you have your head so far up your own north ass you can't see daylight. Such a stupendous line of kites let down by a Farqin stupid depower system that wears at an unacceptable rate. That's a fact.

Brisbud said...
Get out there on a slingshot! Have the ride of your life! Don't pay to not get a thrill out of it!~ Oh n I do it for fun.... Not cash.. Best kites and Blade and
Liquid Force will do the job too!! But you'll be pulling the strings bud.. Not some geek!!!

Slingshot are just as guilty on this one as North! Changing the Slingy one can be a total PITA especially for a customer that has never done it before.

Show me a system in use anywhere else where uncovered braided rope is subject to high friction and wear, and that a failure of that rope will lead to a serious loss of control of the device and that a human being is attached to?
Its literally crazy that any brand releases a control bar with an uncovered center line these days!!!!

Kitepower Australia said...


Slingshot are just as guilty on this one as North! Changing the Slingy one can be a total PITA especially for a customer that has never done it before.

Show me a system in use anywhere else where uncovered braided rope is subject to high friction and wear, and that a failure of that rope will lead to a serious loss of control of the device and that a human being is attached to?
Its literally crazy that any brand releases a control bar with an uncovered center line these days!!!!

Just your own opinion mate.... I wouldn't go to a covered center line unless they would come up with a new material providing as much comfort as a rope. Kitesurfing 101, check the wear on your line, if it's worn out just replace it, cost wouldn't excess $30 anyway. Stop blaming some manufacturers that have proven themselves through many years of development only because you don't sell those brands. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are an Ozone retailer, right? If you want to untwist your center lines on the Ozone control bar you have to unclip your safety leash, right? "It's literally crazy that any brand releases a control bar with such an absurd system"..... Don't make a rod to beat your own back.

PS: I really like ozone, just highlighting a failure from a top brand....

rcr46401 said...
Ozone advanced or unhooked riders clip their leash to ring below swivel, untwist lines by turning swivel. No failure here many good brands use this system.

BS, not everyone has the skills to ride unhook, just a minority. Even though you might have the skills, it is still a bypass of your primary safety. I am sure they are aware of this and surely they'll fix it on their next release but meanwhile, it's still an issue IMO.

I mean that a rope has less grip against the center hole. More control IMO, but yet again, just a personal preference. It just costs me a rope/season.

Livit said...

Kitepower Australia said...


Slingshot are just as guilty on this one as North! Changing the Slingy one can be a total PITA especially for a customer that has never done it before.

Show me a system in use anywhere else where uncovered braided rope is subject to high friction and wear, and that a failure of that rope will lead to a serious loss of control of the device and that a human being is attached to?
Its literally crazy that any brand releases a control bar with an uncovered center line these days!!!!

Just your own opinion mate.... I wouldn't go to a covered center line unless they would come up with a new material providing as much comfort as a rope. Kitesurfing 101, check the wear on your line, if it's worn out just replace it, cost wouldn't excess $30 anyway. Stop blaming some manufacturers that have proven themselves through many years of development only because you don't sell those brands. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are an Ozone retailer, right? If you want to untwist your center lines on the Ozone control bar you have to unclip your safety leash, right? "It's literally crazy that any brand releases a control bar with such an absurd system"..... Don't make a rod to beat your own back.

PS: I really like ozone, just highlighting a failure from a top brand....

Whats the primary way you stop your car? The brakes right? They are the primary safety system right? You don't drive with your foot hovering over the brake and on it though do you?
I'm not saying the current Ozone system is ideal or ultimate, not at all. However there is no substantial issue with the inherent safety of the Ozone megatron c-loop, thousands in use no issues.
We sell Slingshot.
There is no sensible reason (true its just my opinion though) for an uncovered center line, it would only take a few sessions to get used to a center line with a cover, at most.

Kitepower Australia said...

There is no sensible reason (true its just my opinion though) for an uncovered center line, it would only take a few sessions to get used to a center line with a cover, at most.

I may not know all the different brands but does any have a safety line running through a sheath? In that case it also wears out doesn't it?
Anyway a few system on the market cannot be covered due to their kinematic and it is absolutely not an issue.

North 12m Evo sounds pretty good it is a fairly decent begginer kite, but my all time favorite begginer kite was the Best 9m Kahoona, its powerful enough for beginners, but not too powerful to be dangerous. It relaunches incredibly well, and the turning speed and responsiveness is quick and precise.

eppo said...
If i wave is going to hit my kite I let the whole bloody thing go off my leash anyway...I don't want to be attached to that kite at all!

Hey eppo, is this for your safety or that of the kite?
I generally hang on an go for a relaunch but I have torn 3 Slingy's doing this.
Cabs and Epics not one tear yet..