The glue that I bought was purchased from Bunnings, but it dried out , so it went in the bin. The contact type glue sold in bike shops for tube repair works just as well because polyurethane is a type of rubber. The aim of my method is to take the pressure off the glue and let it do it's job as a leak proof joint, and keeping the valve in position.
And this from another thread.
PS: 3m 5200 fast cure is recommended as a glue to aghere the pvc valves to the tpu bladder, the heat/sonic welding doesn't hold up becuase the pvc and tpu have different expansion rates as they heat and cool, over time the valves peel, there are a few threads on this from a year or so ago..........................

colinwill78 said...

coastflyer said...

I have been using North kites for awhile now, and the only valve that I had peel off was from a 9m Rebel that I bought off a girl in Townsville. I had a close look at the design and concluded that it was flawed, because the valve glue base is stuck to the OUTSIDE of the bladder. I bought some pool repair glue and put the glue on the TOP of the flange and inserted the valve assembly into the round hole on the bladder. Now the glue surface was pushing up against the INSIDE of the bladder wall. This then created a mechanical advantage. The bladder was then pumped up slightly to create even pressure on the flange as the glue set. The only cost was the glue ($12), as the original valve was re-used. I have not had any further problems with that particular valve since, and if required, you can be out on the water much sooner than the regular fix, because that relies ONLY on the strength of the bond.

Nice work. what glue did you use?

Up in Cairns hardly anyone rides North anymore because their kite valves are ****. Most ride Cabrinhas and Slingy's. The other issue that killed North up here was the **** front line on the 09 bar that snapped every 20 hours of riding. 5 yrs ago North and Naish had 80% of the sales up here, but now I am about the only one who rides a North because I like the massive power and bottom end of the Rebel. When its 10 knots I am the only one riding apart from Gazza on his 16m rebel and someone flying an Ozone 'jumbo jet" that moves about 2km per/hr through the air. With the right dealer I still get very good warranty support but valves peeling early should not happen.
Get your **** together North!

2008 9m rebel - still going strong with no valve troubles

2008 12m rebel - sold after 2years no problems

2010 12m rebel - middle strut had small leak around valve (fixed with some glue)

Vinyl pool or toy repair glue works.
There is no bike puncture glue I've seen that works, polyurethane is not rubber, its actually a long chain polymer, and rubber is a natural product sourced from the latex sap from rubber trees. Polyurethane comes from Oil, all its components are crude oil based. I'm not so sure that all kite bladders are made of the same polymer film, and I'm also not sure that they are all polyurethane (or if any of hem are, maybe they are one of the polymer films below or one I don't know the name of) whatever they are made from its a polymer thats super strong and super stretchy, impervious to sea water and microbes.

I've had the most success with a glue thats got polyurethane and some nasty solvents in it, to glue valves back onto bladders.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurethane

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rubber

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene

Puetz said...

kitemanjohn said...

Eddie
Seems from discussions with other North owners that the valve issue is most prevalent in our Northern climate. As a long term North kite owner and living and kiting predominately in Darwin and fnq, you can add my numbers to the tally..
Can't be sure of the total number of failures but can state categorically that for each of my North kites kept for more than 18 months, every one of the valve-bladder joins has failed...a conservative estimate would be around 70.
Was about to upgrade to new Rebels but, having seen the boost and float of the Cab Switchies, unless North can confirm that they have fixed the problem, I'm thinking it is time to switch.
Waz, I'm sure you can better 70!?

Rhino 06 20m
Vegas 06 16m
Vegas 06 12m
Rhino 07 12m
Rhino 07 16m
Rhino 08 16m
Rebel 08 10m
Rebel 08 14m
Rebel 09 7m
Rhino 09 9m
Rhino 09 12m
Rhino 09 16m
Rebel 10 9m
Rebel 10 12m
Rebel 10 16m

I've owned this many North kites and can you count how many valves this many kites have? Too many for my pee brain. And I've done more on some kites but which ever way you look at it, its heaps!!! I wish I kept all the valves and could take a photo, would be a hall of shame I tell you. Double it for the 09 kites on with the one pump! I'm too lazy to work it out right now!

Who here doen't think this is a warranty issue!



Robbie

ps Naish X2 18m
Naish x2 12m
Naish X4 12m
Naish X4 16m
Naish X4 20m

All the valves failed on these kites too. And you know the funny thing,
I had a Naish ARX 17.5m and AR5 5.5 m which had good valves up until I threw out in the bin. Why did the old sh!t kites valves stay on????

Wow thats a lot of kites, you should really have been looked after better it would seem?

My knowledge of plastics and chemistry is very basic, my quite old dad was an industrial chemist and I grew up in the amazing age of the discovery of plastics, so had a fair bit of exposure to advancements and basic chemistry. I reckon that nearly all the kite brands are in a mad race to beat each other to market each year with the latest and greatest bells and whistles kite, they spend the quite limited R&D funds they have on the actual kite design. They spend very little money on researching the materials their bladders and some other critical components are made from.
I think the main issue is incompatible materials - some brands suppliers of bladders are using valves and bladder material that are chemically incompatible for welding, so they glue the valves on, these are the ones that are failing.
Other brands have discovered that compatible valves and bladder materials can be welded, and will never fail due to environmental conditions - normal heat does not affect the valve to bladder weld/bond.
Many kite brands buy their bladders from Chinese/asian based manufacturers that have no real experience in making the bladders and components of kites.
Basically we are all being treated as guinea pigs each year!

Some brands in the race to gain and keep market share have ignored the fact that one of the critical components of their product are being made by people that are experimenting too, using trial and error to make a product that they can sell to the kite brands.
Some brands also now make their own bladders in house, probably by just copying what their former suppliers were sending them, its pretty obvious which brands fit into these two categories.

Some brands are spending time and money to make quality bladders that match the quality of their products, these would be the brands that have zero bladder valve issues. Or they are using one or two bladder manufacturers that actually know what they are doing.

The mad race to sell us all a different coloured kite each year has to stop, more quality and durability is what we need, not BS marketing spiel!!!

Grrr over.

kitemanjohn said...

Eddie

Was about to upgrade to new Rebels but, having seen the boost and float of the Cab Switchies, unless North can confirm that they have fixed the problem, I'm thinking it is time to switch.

that's punny!!

kitemanjohn said...

Eddie
Seems from discussions with other North owners that the valve issue is most prevalent in our Northern climate. As a long term North kite owner and living and kiting predominately in Darwin and fnq, you can add my numbers to the tally..
Can't be sure of the total number of failures but can state categorically that for each of my North kites kept for more than 18 months, every one of the valve-bladder joins has failed...a conservative estimate would be around 70.
Was about to upgrade to new Rebels but, having seen the boost and float of the Cab Switchies, unless North can confirm that they have fixed the problem, I'm thinking it is time to switch.
Waz, I'm sure you can better 70!?

...mmm, Cab Switchblade you say, I'm interested. Did you try the Core in the end, if so how did that go?

Puetz said...


Rhino 06 20m
Vegas 06 16m
Vegas 06 12m
Rhino 07 12m
Rhino 07 16m
Rhino 08 16m
Rebel 08 10m
Rebel 08 14m
Rebel 09 7m
Rhino 09 9m
Rhino 09 12m
Rhino 09 16m
Rebel 10 9m
Rebel 10 12m
Rebel 10 16m

20m rhino!!! lovin' that big red machine. How many people NOT from Darwin can say they've seen a 20m kite loop?

Core.... is that your new sponsor? (gonna PM you too.)

Hey I´m one of Norths biggest fans but the valve problem is a joke, they know there is a problem and don´t fix it, how long did it take them to fix the problem with there bars peeling??? I think that maybe it´s the aussie climate as when I lived in Europe had no valve problems but when in Oz and Brazil all peeled off, check the warranty apparently not designed for southern hemisphere!!!!! but still gotta love them

hotracer said...

ps I found away to stop them peeling off I moved to Thredbo where it´s minus 5!!!

...and bits of YOU start falling off!!!

djdojo said...

Meh, what's all the fuss about? I demoed a rebel last summer and really it was just another kite. No particular performance characteristics that can't be found in plenty of other kites (Unless there's something special about the big sizes for light tropical wind. I tried a 10m in Melbourne).

I find it incomprehensible that folk would pay top dollar year after year for kites that have a fundamental flaw. That said, you have my sympathy for North's lack of responsiveness, but until you vote with your feet/wallet, they'll keep selling you whatever they can.

No affiliation, I just can't stand shoddy design when good alternatives are clearly available.

... yeah, thats true, just another kite but they do suit our conditions and our styles, its the damn valves that we just like about them. My 16m has good grunt and isn't technical to get the best out of it, where as say the Zepher you need to ride the kite abit, hence the style (or the lack of!).

But, watch this space if the 2011 valves fail!!!!

are you still gonna get 2011 kites?

sir ROWDY said...

Puetz said...

You think something would have clicked in that brain of yours after that many problems... You have probably heard it a million times before but they say the definition of insanity is performing the same task but expecting a different outcome.

... yep, 3825ing insane and I definitely don't learn so good either! But North told me they have it fixed this time (insert sarcastic thingy here) so I'm gunna give 'em another go again!!! (insert 'smack on the face' thingy here)

cheers,

Robbie

hey everyone and sorry that you all passed from the same valve leaking problem by north, just like me, I searched on the net about bladder durability in north and guess what forum popped up. long story short my evo 09 9m was the first to go but that was ok because I could de-power my rhino 09 12m to get my fix that day. and no I didn't get my fix. both kites failed, epic fail. I wanted to just rip them apart. luckily I kept my calm and now I am steering away from north, selling whatever I have from this company, its a shame as well, damn good flying machines with a short expiry date. these kites should be at least half price and warn the rider of an imminent valve failure. you are not alone out there fellow north rider.

more and more horrified as the discussion wears on. i am blissfully ignorant of valve changing culture, i was barely even aware there was such a curse, and assumed it was a 'once in a kite-lifetime' type of thing.

i repeat... cabrinhas for me!

no amount of tree jokes, homo-innuendo, technical performance talk, graphics chat or other bollox could lead me to risk having the most fundamental piece of gear, the KITE, (i mean... THE KITE... it is what we are doing! flying kites!) fail. the kite fail! i mean... really? how ridiculous! because of a valve!! not slammed into the water in front of a 6 foot set or some other genuinely gear stressing moment, but just as a regular event!!! seriously i am gobsmacked. what on earth would lead someone to buy another of this product? performance? a soggy shopping bag on strings doesnt perform too well...

now i understand why North riders NEED to do their tricks in the dubious close proximity of non kiters in the shallow water near the beach, even on the most inappropriate summers day. they cant kite out further than they can scream "HELP!", and heaven forbid you would attempt a valve pressuring manoeuvre on the outside tack!!!

having been a former poley, i have to note, such gear failure would simply not be accepted in windsurfing. funnily enough, even by this very brand (who many will know are also a leading poley brand).