Robert , this is your mother . Please refrain from the language and let the people have their say without getting us struck down .

eddiemorgs said...

Robert , this is your mother . Please refrain from the language and let the people have their say without getting us struck down .

3825 me, I've been busted, sorry!! [}:)]

Your right though, I should refrain from using paddock talk when venting my spleene on a forum, its just that ... when I type my opinions out I shouldn't do so straight after another kite repair!!!! .

Grrrrrrrr still angry,

Robbie.

DaylightDebt said...

what is the best way to fix these valves so they dont need replacing again, i have just purchased north kites :)

Oh , Oh , I know this one .

Well, you go buy a NORTH patch for about $20. Making sure it is the right one.

Withthe easy pump valves , you pull the bladder out through the valve hole . Find some hard to sit it . I use a pump . The struts through the zipper provided and the leading edge through its zoppier .
Peal off the valve , thats easy .
Use the cleaner provided in their beautifully presented packet .
Peel off the sticker backing , flatten out the bladder and align with the hole in the bladder . Stick on from the centre if you can .
They actually seem to work pretty well , not sure how long they will last though .

Good luck my friend

sir ROWDY said...

Will you all just neck up and buy a not so euro kite already...

... what the 3825 does that mean?

justfun said...

I too have replaced more than my fair share of valves, both on my North kites and on almost every other brand that happens to pass thru our little bit of Tropical paradise. Discussions with other retailers indicate to me that this (humidity) hassle is very wide spread across most brands. Got an email last night with the following info re efforts to fix the problem:-

"For 2011 They have changed the following:
Supplier of raw bladder material
Moved production from China to Sri Lanka to a manufacture who is working with the European Automotive industry.
Changed glues.
Changed cleaning process prior to gluing.
Tested the new system in an oven with a bowl of water underneath to create maximum humidity.
There have been no 2011 failures so far"

I have had great product support from North for years, but this problem really is a bitch! Hang in there and please, try to be constructive with your input (hard as it is). You are not being ignored and they are working on it. Geoff

... oh its hard to be constructive when your hot under the collar!!! As you can understand, we heard from North that the 2010 kites had the problem solved and they identified a bug that our water (must have had the same water right around the world) that attacks the glue or to that effect, sounded plausable at the time, but as it turned out, was a stab in the dark and I'm sure answer was designed to shut us up for a while.

Anyway, looks like were on the merry-go-round again, lets hope the new glue process works!!!! If they were making s h ! t designed ordinary kites, we would have jumped ship years ago, but since they are perfect for what we want, we are sticking with them (for now )!!

cheers,

Robbie

ps Thinking logically and no real basis for my arguements here, but I have issues with the oven testing process! Have they taken into account age, or mechanical movements within a kite that is under 6 or 7 psi, is the test bladder only pumped up to only say 2 or 3 psi (I think the max a bladder can be not inside a cavety and not explode or cherry) so the fault may not present blah blah blah I could think of more but will more than likely you reading this now have switched off ...

justfun said...

I too have replaced more than my fair share of valves, both on my North kites and on almost every other brand that happens to pass thru our little bit of Tropical paradise. Discussions with other retailers indicate to me that this (humidity) hassle is very wide spread across most brands. Got an email last night with the following info re efforts to fix the problem:-

"For 2011 They have changed the following:
Supplier of raw bladder material
Moved production from China to Sri Lanka to a manufacture who is working with the European Automotive industry.
Changed glues.
Changed cleaning process prior to gluing.
Tested the new system in an oven with a bowl of water underneath to create maximum humidity.
There have been no 2011 failures so far"

I have had great product support from North for years, but this problem really is a bitch! Hang in there and please, try to be constructive with your input (hard as it is). You are not being ignored and they are working on it. Geoff

Thanks Geoff . That is heartening .

There is no doubt the product is good and I am glad they provide good support .
However , this valve issue has not gone away for the moment , whilst we have spent a lot of money with a nagging doubt that our kites will deflate in near due course .
I am not the only one who has had to coax my kite home after it has deflated while on the water . Not a very safe situation to be in .

And on cost ,my 08 Rhino will cost about $280 to replace all valves.
And I wonder what cost is , and is money being made from the valves ? I hope not.

It would not hurt North's reputation at all if they covered the valve replacement cost as extended warranty on say , 2 years .
That seems a reasonable timeframe to expect from this sort of equipment before it reasonably breaks down .

kiter zac said...

Puetz said...

sir ROWDY said...

Will you all just neck up and buy a not so euro kite already...

... what the 3825 does that mean?

every euro and his dog rides a north kite, so we call north a euro brand, they also might be from over there, not sure

...oh, so he was being helpful on the subject, cool!!

T one said...

RPM said...

if you have so many issues with valves....

And you don't want to change brands.....


And you can't control your potty mouth.....

Why don't you take up Windsurfing...



Laurie close this topic as it 3825ing sucks.

This thread is obviously relevant to quite a number of people, if you aren't interested dont read it... d!ck!

3825 you RPM you smart arse! Contribute something useful or don't bother reading and replying.

By the way, don't you know windsurfing was cancelled! They wouldn't have me back anyway, since I turned my back on them years ago (I used to be a windsurfer for 20 years), proberly have too much of a potty mouth anyway!!!

Have we met, I just want to know if your one of those guys who's a smart arse on the net but is actually a nice enough dude in the flesh, is that you, an internet tough guy????

We want North to know our plight, and have something done!! And it appears as justfun says, they may be genuinely doing something about it. Time will tell!

Grrrr, still feeling the anger but its subsiding,

Robbie

BoDiddly said...

None!
And I'm still riding my 2007 14 Rebel!!!
Happy days!

seriously!!

That's great Bo Diddly

Well , we have received some contact from North .

That they assure us that they doing things to resolve the problem. That's great but we are still stuck with a heap of kites which may well deflate at any point and more cost .

Good luck with your next purchases .

however ..... North is quite well know for their bad quality.

Cheers M

Yeah , I was thinking about that the other day . It seems obvious really but there must be production problem I guess.
This obviously a problem across many kites in our climate . Anyway we will watch this space to see if manufacturers can lift their game

lol... Cabrinha you say... hmmmm maybe... after all... i didnt realise i was on a "euro" kite aaarrgghh!

well ok... the graphics have been steadily declining over the last coupla years...

... Kiteforum has some guys with valves problems to, check it out:

kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365032&start=0&hilit=cking+north

Info below was taken from one of the posters who sounds like he's in the know:


Valves falling off is so annoying, I can sympathise with anyone who has experienced this.

I think every brand can hold their hands up and say they have had valve problems at some point: I have heard stories about al brands. Here's what goes wrong...

The valves are stuck to the bladders using Ultrasound Welding (sometimes called RF Welding). The Ultrasound energy excites the surface molecules on the two bits of plastic being welded and they vibrate which causes heat. The plastics melt and they stick together. The technology is used in a huge range of applications including welding the two halves of a washing machine drum together so the resulting weld can be as strong as the material(s) itself.

Now here's the problem with valves on bladders... Ultrasound Welding only works with thermoplast plastics and not thermoset plastics... (an example of a thermoset is the plastic used to make domestic electrical plugs - they won't melt wehen they get warm, but eventually burn [oh and the UK plug is the best in the world, no arguments ] a thermoplast will melt and then set again when it cools) The bladder is a thermoplast but the valves are often thermosets so a small disk of thermoplast is put between the valve and the bladder... this is what melts and glues the two together. When Flexi experienced a problem, it was because the factory used the wrong type of plastic disc... one that melted again at 40degC So, as well as sending loads of replacement bladders out, Flexi put in a control at the factory whereby at the start of every batch of bladders, a test bladder is made and then baked in an oven at 120degC and the valve is then checked for adhesion.

That's not the whole story, I believe... I think something called process variation also plays a part. There are various parameters that can effect the adhesion of valve to bladder... the energy intensity setting on the Ultrasound Welder, the dwell time (how long that energy is applied for) and several other environmental factors. All these need to be controlled to get a consistent result... it is not possible to bake every single bladder to 120degC and between checks, there is a possibility that some process parameters could change and cause a poor adherence. Some factories (and I do not just mean Chinese factories, I have seen this in many factories in and out of the kite industry) are not always good at process control... i.e. making sure all significant parameters are kept under control and within predetermined limits. Improving that is not space age solutions, it is widely used manufacturing technology but it does require someone do some work!

The other option is double sided tape... Airtime use this. It is a good idea, although much more expensive I believe (and judging by the cost of one U-Stick valve!) I've seen double sided tapes that are used to stick the badges on the back of cars and they are not easy to pull off. There are thousands of types of tape out there but it is definitely more cost than a small plastic disc and a Ultrasound welder!

And if this little ramble helps some other brands (I'm sure they all know what they're doing) then good, having valves fall off within 2 years of buying a kite sucks!