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Skepticism and critical thinking

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Created by remery > 9 months ago, 3 Jul 2024
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fangman
WA, 1906 posts
27 Aug 2024 7:47PM
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Exodus 23:1"Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness."
So where does this leave you if are Christian of faith I wonder?
Trolling or reposting rhubarb conspiracy theory looks a bit suspect surely?
.

Flying Dutchman
WA, 1730 posts
27 Aug 2024 8:08PM
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'Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.' ~ Buddha

www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/27/mark-zuckerberg-says-white-house-pressured-facebook-to-censor-covid-19-content

remery
WA, 3709 posts
27 Aug 2024 8:08PM
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Timothy 4:2 - Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

FormulaNova
WA, 15086 posts
28 Aug 2024 6:21AM
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fangman said..
psychojoe said..

fangman said..
Perhaps the quote would make more sense if it read "the more easily you get offended the less emotionally intelligent you
actually are" . But overall I feel the whole approach is too simplistic to apply to humans. The psychological impacts of experiences can be so deeply rooted that the body's autonomic systems are running the show. The higher cognitive stuff doesn't even get a look in until much later.



You can mitigate your PTSD response with a script of psilocybin.


You can mitigate a whole lot of things with a bag of those special mushrooms you can buy at some Asian Grocery store in Melbourne and then whack 'em in a Beef Wellington.


Ouch! Do you need to dump the food processor you prepared with them or is that optional?

But they were 'natural' so surely there is no way they could be bad for you. Natural things are never bad for you, its only when Big Pharma release pills that things are bad.

FormulaNova
WA, 15086 posts
28 Aug 2024 6:24AM
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remery said..
Timothy 4:2 - Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.


Even warring scriptures will not help you when the other side chooses to ignore things you say.

Brent in Qld
WA, 1385 posts
28 Aug 2024 7:48AM
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To quote Orwell from 1984, one of the greatest critiques of humanities seemingly mindless need to follow regimented doctrine.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

fangman
WA, 1906 posts
28 Aug 2024 8:22AM
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OK so on a tangent my Maths teacher would be proud to see, I was thinking about happy chappy G Orwell and what he would make of AI. Already when I type a question into DuckDuckGo search engine, I can choose results that are AI-generated answers sourced from the open web. The problem being some of the answers are based on disinformation and misinformation that permeates every corner. Most of the time I can pick the BS, but I wonder how will future generations cope separating the wheat from the chaff. Should critical thinking be a something that is instilled in primary school, or do we just sit and hope the AI will develop better algorithms?

remery
WA, 3709 posts
28 Aug 2024 9:33AM
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Definitely. Scientists and skeptics have been urging that critical thinking be part of the curriculum. There are many simple experiments that kids can do that practically debunk pseudo-science.

Brent in Qld
WA, 1385 posts
28 Aug 2024 9:33AM
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Most homo sapiens for millenia have been more than happy to accept magic and superstition as solutions for their existence and the grind of the universe around them. When this world view is challenged with new/oppositional information, more often than not it is actively suppressed by the powerful and their henchmen. I doubt any form of ai will change the mantras of the willfully ignorant. Ai will more than likely be manipulated to shoot down dissenting voices through the easily swayed court of the public opinion. Kinda same old, same old with new tools.

decrepit
WA, 12776 posts
28 Aug 2024 11:39AM
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Hopefully they'll refrain from burning dissenters at the stake, but I think stoning people to death still occurs in some places.

FormulaNova
WA, 15086 posts
28 Aug 2024 12:35PM
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fangman said..
OK so on a tangent my Maths teacher would be proud to see, I was thinking about happy chappy G Orwell and what he would make of AI. Already when I type a question into DuckDuckGo search engine, I can choose results that are AI-generated answers sourced from the open web. The problem being some of the answers are based on disinformation and misinformation that permeates every corner. Most of the time I can pick the BS, but I wonder how will future generations cope separating the wheat from the chaff. Should critical thinking be a something that is instilled in primary school, or do we just sit and hope the AI will develop better algorithms?


When I grew up, school assignments were based on encylopedia articles or other magazine articles.

Now, with so much random information on the internet, I do wonder if kids are being taught to filter and qualify information, or god-forbid, some of the teachers themselves don't even do this and the students therefore don't learn to?

Worse, in that books are definitely going out of style, so is 'common' information likely to die out and only be available in some dark corner of the web and therefore exposed to misinformation? Are we as a civilization going to die out with only electronic records left, i.e. nothing, and someone in the future will wonder where all our knowledge went?

D3
WA, 1506 posts
28 Aug 2024 12:48PM
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And what happens to the quality of the product when the AI starts learning/training itself on other AI generated material?

Brent in Qld
WA, 1385 posts
28 Aug 2024 2:33PM
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It's already happening. There are ai programs being shut down/rebooted/consolidated because they start producing gibberish based on the ever diminishing quality of input as the net of enquiry grows and entropy kicks in. Presently human supervision is mandatory as the field is in its relative infancy. Also consider the case of two super computers being shut down because they started conversing in language we did not understand.
It's a brave new world folks.

Pcdefender
WA, 1607 posts
28 Aug 2024 7:01PM
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Frequent occurrence since the rollout of the 'safe and effective' experimental shots.

Do not think critically just regurgitate their pitiful excuses.

www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cn8725gxnd3o

fangman
WA, 1906 posts
28 Aug 2024 7:28PM
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Brent in Qld said..
Also consider the case of two super computers being shut down because they started conversing in language we did not understand....


Well that has piqued my interest, but as usual I have food coma and feeling a bit lazy...can you post a link for me pls?

remery
WA, 3709 posts
28 Aug 2024 7:34PM
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Nobody argues with The Royal Society.

"Spanish researchers say there's a chance that we can interrupt and stop a person from believing in pseudoscience, stereotypes and unjustified beliefs. Such "causal illusions" can lead a person to "unhealthy or irresponsible opinions", so the researchers sought to train kids from 40 high schools about scientific methods and control conditions. The paper outlining the large-scale study for high school students and six-month follow-up is available via the Royal Society.

royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.240846

Brent in Qld
WA, 1385 posts
28 Aug 2024 8:07PM
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fangman said..

Brent in Qld said..
Also consider the case of two super computers being shut down because they started conversing in language we did not understand....



Well that has piqued my interest, but as usual I have food coma and feeling a bit lazy...can you post a link for me pls?


There are further discussions about the back and forth noise between the bots if you want to dig. Either way, interesting and eerie...

Excerpt from the link below.

It became apparent that, far from having been forced to shut Bob and Alice (the computers mentioned) down in a fearful panic, FAIR ended the experiment because-despite it yielding some valuable results in the area of machine learning-the bots' habit of drifting away from understandable language into a coded form of utterance meant that they had limited usefulness for the ultimate purpose for which they were being developed.

www.leoalmanac.org/what-are-bob-and-alice-saying-miscommunication-and-intermediation-between-language-and-code-hannah-lammin/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20it%20becomes%20apparent%20that,form%20of%20utterance%20meant%20that

fangman
WA, 1906 posts
28 Aug 2024 8:31PM
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Brent in Qld said..

fangman said..


Brent in Qld said..
Also consider the case of two super computers being shut down because they started conversing in language we did not understand....




Well that has piqued my interest, but as usual I have food coma and feeling a bit lazy...can you post a link for me pls?



There are further discussions about the back and forth noise between the bots if you want to dig. Either way, interesting and eerie...

Excerpt from the link below.

It became apparent that, far from having been forced to shut Bob and Alice (the computers mentioned) down in a fearful panic, FAIR ended the experiment because-despite it yielding some valuable results in the area of machine learning-the bots' habit of drifting away from understandable language into a coded form of utterance meant that they had limited usefulness for the ultimate purpose for which they were being developed.

www.leoalmanac.org/what-are-bob-and-alice-saying-miscommunication-and-intermediation-between-language-and-code-hannah-lammin/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20it%20becomes%20apparent%20that,form%20of%20utterance%20meant%20that


Thank you. Looking forward to having a read.

Pcdefender
WA, 1607 posts
29 Aug 2024 1:29PM
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decrepit
WA, 12776 posts
29 Aug 2024 1:35PM
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And of course, you've researched the source for those ticks and crosses.
It wouldn't be a CT by any chance?

BTW that's what we mean by critical thinking

FormulaNova
WA, 15086 posts
29 Aug 2024 2:45PM
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decrepit said..
And of course, you've researched the source for those ticks and crosses.
It wouldn't be a CT by any chance?

BTW that's what we mean by critical thinking


Do you think there's another list that lists all the other crackpot theories created that turned out to be completely off-base? I doubt it. I think these guys get their jollies by coming up with lame theory after theory and when one is actually correct, it pays off so much it replenishes them for the next decade.

Actually thinking about it, whoever created that masterpiece seems to have toned it down. 'mRNA vaccine harm'? I thought it was more like they were trying to tell us all that the vaccine was going to kill us all, not just that there would be harm to some unlucky people.

Any grammar experts here? I am not even sure they used 'whom' correctly, but am willing to learn something.

D3
WA, 1506 posts
29 Aug 2024 3:19PM
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Apparently the same CT people who were right about child trafficking are very upset that the Telegram founder has been arrested.
The same Telegram that is used by child trafficking organisations....

fangman
WA, 1906 posts
29 Aug 2024 3:20PM
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decrepit said..
And of course, you've researched the source for those ticks and crosses.
It wouldn't be a CT by any chance?

BTW that's what we mean by critical thinking



It's another masterclass in ironic posting is my guess.
Sledging journos but then creating a grammar car crash in just one short sentence. ( i.e. it's who, not whom, and 'correct and right' is a tautology.)
I would give it a rating of 3 stars, purely because it gave my internal grammar pedant something to do.
lol

Edit: just saw your post FN, and yes you are correct on the grammar question.

remery
WA, 3709 posts
29 Aug 2024 4:07PM
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Isn't that latest drivel from Pcdefender a classic "straw man argument"?

remery
WA, 3709 posts
29 Aug 2024 4:10PM
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Pcdefender said..


"Masks useless". You will be interested to know that I contacted antivaxxer heroine, Kerryn Phelps. While she remains concerned about vaccine harm, she is very supportive of masks.

remery
WA, 3709 posts
29 Aug 2024 4:20PM
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I'm in Japan, lots of people still wearing mask.

USA ranked #14 3,642 deaths per million.
Japan ranked #129 595 deaths per million.

cammd
QLD, 4296 posts
29 Aug 2024 6:57PM
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decrepit said..
And of course, you've researched the source for those ticks and crosses.
It wouldn't be a CT by any chance?

BTW that's what we mean by critical thinking


Doesn't it raise any alarms in you when ct nutters are actually correct.

You don't need a peer reviewed article to know that social media is censored or russiagate was a hoax.

If you do need an academic or some other main stream verified source to tell you what to think than you might be struggling with the concept of critical thinking.

The ct nutters are actually getting some stuff right. A person capable of critical thinking would listen and weigh up their arguments and evidence. A sheeple would would dismiss them and follow the narrative.

psychojoe
WA, 2235 posts
29 Aug 2024 4:58PM
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After you failed to accept that I had vaccine induced chest pain for two years, all of your comments read as unfounded **** posting.

decrepit
WA, 12776 posts
29 Aug 2024 5:10PM
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cammd said..
You don't need a peer reviewed article to know that social media is censored or russiagate was a hoax.


However a placard with ticks and crosses on it is meaningless, anybody could have done that.

Yes, I know there are conspiracies, and the nutters may just get one correct.
But I'm afraid I just ignore anything from PC

decrepit
WA, 12776 posts
29 Aug 2024 5:11PM
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psychojoe said..
After you failed to accept that I had vaccine induced chest pain for two years, all of your comments read as unfounded **** posting.


who is this aimed at??? I accept completely that your problems were probably due to your vaccine shot.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Skepticism and critical thinking" started by remery