Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
You want to build a tunnel from Brisbane to Perth? ..
Nah,.. not one from Brisbane to Perth - he wants to build them around the world.
Many, many of them. Connecting everybody.
Also wants to vacuum the tunnel, down to some undisclosed or un-conceptualised level.
hardpole's article above talks about somebody getting a superconductor at room temperature - but you need about 2 million atmospheric pressure (if I've got my zeros right).
I would love to see the end cap blow off the tunnel that runs from Melbourne to New York pressurized at 250GPa. - Well watch it from a safe distance, which is probably somewhere around the far side of the moon.
- if we are talking about random half-baked concepts could you even pressurize a tunnel from Melbourne to New York at 250GPa ?
Say, for arguments sake, a 1m diameter tunnel.
I bet it would take more air than exists in the atmosphere to pump it up to 250GPa.
....then again probably not. 1m dia New York to Melbourne I doubt is 2 million times less volume the entire Earth's atmosphere - so maybe it is theoretically possible,
..................although you'd have to also consider the atmospheric pressure decreases as you go up so its not just a simple volume ratio....
Mmmmm....How many km of tunnel could you pump up at 250 GPa using the volume of air in the atmosphere ??
Hold the line I'll be back in a minute.....
If you have any doubts about whether or not electric cars are going to be adopted by the "go fast" crew, then just watch this...
A Surprising Threat to the US Power Grid Could Plunge the Country Into Darkness (theepochtimes.com)
The importance of a strong power grid cannot be emphasized enough. Often, when a grid fails, the results are terrifying. Of all the major power grids in the world, the United States' is one of the more vulnerable to attack.State-sponsored hackers from the likes of Iran, Russia, and, unsurprisingly, China pose a real threat to the United States' electrical transmission lines. However, there's another (far less obvious) threat to the grid: electric vehicles (EVs).Yes, you read that right.The Biden administration is desperate to consign the internal combustion engine to the dustbin of history. In this radical shift to embrace a new, zero-emission world, Americans are being told to embrace EVs. Such an embrace, however, requires a stellar power grid, the very thing the United States lacks.Just to be clear, the U.S. power grid involves a huge network of transmission lines, power plants, and distribution centers. The United States has three major grids: the eastern grid, the western grid, and the ERCOT grid, otherwise known as the Texas grid. Of the three, the eastern grid is the largest.Although the three grids can operate independently, they're also connected. A failed grid means no power for tens of millions of citizens and prolonged periods of darkness. Imagine a power grid failure in the likes of Los Angeles or New York. The two cities are already riddled with crime; grid failures would make things many times worse.Attacks Since 2016In 2018, the Department of Homeland Security announced that Russian hackers had hijacked the control rooms of various electric utilities. This allowed the hackers to disrupt power flows and cause blackouts.Rather alarmingly, the DHS conceded that the attacks had been occurring since 2016, the same year the Russians started attacking Ukraine's grid. Although the Russians have strenuously denied the attack, such denials appear to conflict with reality.As tensions between Russia and the United States escalate, and tensions with China, another hacker-friendly country, intensify, expect more disruptions to the grid.However, as mentioned, Americans must concern themselves with more "benign" threats. A recent paper, published in Applied Energy, discussed the threat of EVs to the grid. Currently, there are 2.5 million EVs in the United States; 4 in 5 owners opt to charge their cars overnight. This decision, according to the researchers, is putting a considerable strain on power grids.By 2025, the United States will have more than 20 million EVs on its roads. According to Bloomberg, by 2030, more than half of car sales will be electric. The strain is increasing, and power grids are ill-equipped to shoulder the load.If Bloomberg's projection proves to be correct, then, as the researchers note, it will take 5.4 gigawatts of energy storage to charge EVs. To put 5.4 gigawatts into perspective, one nuclear power plant produces 1 gigawatt of energy. The United States currently has 55 power plants. To facilitate the new EV revolution, the United States requires many more. Considering California, the largest state in the country, has moved to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, and other states are considering introducing similar measures, the United States needs to get a move on. Time is very much of the essence.What would happen if, say, the power grid was to fail in EV-crazed California? To answer that question, we need only rewind a few months. This past summer, plagued by scorching hot temperatures, the Golden State's power grid came incredibly close to collapsing.It survived, but only just.The grid will be tested again. With California's desire to boost EV sales, the next test could prove to be an unmitigated disaster. Energy is a finite resource, a fact that seems to be lost on so many EV enthusiasts.In truth, the nation's power grid is already on its last legs. It has been for years. In a sobering piece for Smithsonian Magazine, Massoud Amin, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Minnesota, explained the many ways in which the country's power grid-"the most complex" one ever assembled-could fail. The grid, he wrote, "underpins our economy, our quality of life, our society." Without it, society would be brought to a screeching halt. Crime would rise. Lives would be lost. Chaos would reign supreme.By 2025, according to the American Society for Civil Engineers, the inability of the United States to maintain its many power lines will cost the country dearly-$130 billion, to be exact. EVs, so often hailed as the best thing since sliced bread, come with a whole host of sizable problems.Across the United States, as the author Ben Guess recently noted, there are currently 21 EVs per public charging port. By 2030, to keep up with EV purchasing trends, the United States must install almost 500 charging ports every day for the next eight years.Does this sound realistic to you?Even if the United States does somehow manage to install enough ports, the grid simply isn't strong enough to support the battery-related demands. This is a point that needs to be emphasized, repeatedly and unapologetically. Yes, state-sponsored hackers are a threat, but state-sponsored EV initiatives aren't exactly harmless. In the blind embrace of all things green, we must not lose sight of the bigger picture, the objective realities that stare us straight in the face.Views expressed in this article are the opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoc
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
A Surprising Threat to the US Power Grid Could Plunge the Country Into Darkness (theepochtimes.com)
The importance of a strong power grid cannot be emphasized enough. Often, when a grid fails, the results are terrifying. Of all the major power grids in the world, the United States' is one of the more vulnerable to attack.State-sponsored hackers from the likes of Iran, Russia, and, unsurprisingly, China pose a real threat to the United States' electrical transmission lines. However, there's another (far less obvious) threat to the grid: electric vehicles (EVs).Yes, you read that right.The Biden administration is desperate to consign the internal combustion engine to the dustbin of history. In this radical shift to embrace a new, zero-emission world, Americans are being told to embrace EVs. Such an embrace, however, requires a stellar power grid, the very thing the United States lacks.Just to be clear, the U.S. power grid involves a huge network of transmission lines, power plants, and distribution centers. The United States has three major grids: the eastern grid, the western grid, and the ERCOT grid, otherwise known as the Texas grid. Of the three, the eastern grid is the largest.Although the three grids can operate independently, they're also connected. A failed grid means no power for tens of millions of citizens and prolonged periods of darkness. Imagine a power grid failure in the likes of Los Angeles or New York. The two cities are already riddled with crime; grid failures would make things many times worse.Attacks Since 2016In 2018, the Department of Homeland Security announced that Russian hackers had hijacked the control rooms of various electric utilities. This allowed the hackers to disrupt power flows and cause blackouts.Rather alarmingly, the DHS conceded that the attacks had been occurring since 2016, the same year the Russians started attacking Ukraine's grid. Although the Russians have strenuously denied the attack, such denials appear to conflict with reality.As tensions between Russia and the United States escalate, and tensions with China, another hacker-friendly country, intensify, expect more disruptions to the grid.However, as mentioned, Americans must concern themselves with more "benign" threats. A recent paper, published in Applied Energy, discussed the threat of EVs to the grid. Currently, there are 2.5 million EVs in the United States; 4 in 5 owners opt to charge their cars overnight. This decision, according to the researchers, is putting a considerable strain on power grids.By 2025, the United States will have more than 20 million EVs on its roads. According to Bloomberg, by 2030, more than half of car sales will be electric. The strain is increasing, and power grids are ill-equipped to shoulder the load.If Bloomberg's projection proves to be correct, then, as the researchers note, it will take 5.4 gigawatts of energy storage to charge EVs. To put 5.4 gigawatts into perspective, one nuclear power plant produces 1 gigawatt of energy. The United States currently has 55 power plants. To facilitate the new EV revolution, the United States requires many more. Considering California, the largest state in the country, has moved to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, and other states are considering introducing similar measures, the United States needs to get a move on. Time is very much of the essence.What would happen if, say, the power grid was to fail in EV-crazed California? To answer that question, we need only rewind a few months. This past summer, plagued by scorching hot temperatures, the Golden State's power grid came incredibly close to collapsing.It survived, but only just.The grid will be tested again. With California's desire to boost EV sales, the next test could prove to be an unmitigated disaster. Energy is a finite resource, a fact that seems to be lost on so many EV enthusiasts.In truth, the nation's power grid is already on its last legs. It has been for years. In a sobering piece for Smithsonian Magazine, Massoud Amin, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Minnesota, explained the many ways in which the country's power grid-"the most complex" one ever assembled-could fail. The grid, he wrote, "underpins our economy, our quality of life, our society." Without it, society would be brought to a screeching halt. Crime would rise. Lives would be lost. Chaos would reign supreme.By 2025, according to the American Society for Civil Engineers, the inability of the United States to maintain its many power lines will cost the country dearly-$130 billion, to be exact. EVs, so often hailed as the best thing since sliced bread, come with a whole host of sizable problems.Across the United States, as the author Ben Guess recently noted, there are currently 21 EVs per public charging port. By 2030, to keep up with EV purchasing trends, the United States must install almost 500 charging ports every day for the next eight years.Does this sound realistic to you?Even if the United States does somehow manage to install enough ports, the grid simply isn't strong enough to support the battery-related demands. This is a point that needs to be emphasized, repeatedly and unapologetically. Yes, state-sponsored hackers are a threat, but state-sponsored EV initiatives aren't exactly harmless. In the blind embrace of all things green, we must not lose sight of the bigger picture, the objective realities that stare us straight in the face.Views expressed in this article are the opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoc
Nothing like a wall of text to put one off reading a posted blurb. 
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..Pcdefender said..
A Surprising Threat to the US Power Grid Could Plunge the Country Into Darkness (theepochtimes.com)
The importance of a strong power grid cannot be emphasized enough. Often, when a grid fails, the results are terrifying. Of all the major power grids in the world, the United States' is one of the more vulnerable to attack.State-sponsored hackers from the likes of Iran, Russia, and, unsurprisingly, China pose a real threat to the United States' electrical transmission lines. However, there's another (far less obvious) threat to the grid: electric vehicles (EVs).Yes, you read that right.The Biden administration is desperate to consign the internal combustion engine to the dustbin of history. In this radical shift to embrace a new, zero-emission world, Americans are being told to embrace EVs. Such an embrace, however, requires a stellar power grid, the very thing the United States lacks.Just to be clear, the U.S. power grid involves a huge network of transmission lines, power plants, and distribution centers. The United States has three major grids: the eastern grid, the western grid, and the ERCOT grid, otherwise known as the Texas grid. Of the three, the eastern grid is the largest.Although the three grids can operate independently, they're also connected. A failed grid means no power for tens of millions of citizens and prolonged periods of darkness. Imagine a power grid failure in the likes of Los Angeles or New York. The two cities are already riddled with crime; grid failures would make things many times worse.Attacks Since 2016In 2018, the Department of Homeland Security announced that Russian hackers had hijacked the control rooms of various electric utilities. This allowed the hackers to disrupt power flows and cause blackouts.Rather alarmingly, the DHS conceded that the attacks had been occurring since 2016, the same year the Russians started attacking Ukraine's grid. Although the Russians have strenuously denied the attack, such denials appear to conflict with reality.As tensions between Russia and the United States escalate, and tensions with China, another hacker-friendly country, intensify, expect more disruptions to the grid.However, as mentioned, Americans must concern themselves with more "benign" threats. A recent paper, published in Applied Energy, discussed the threat of EVs to the grid. Currently, there are 2.5 million EVs in the United States; 4 in 5 owners opt to charge their cars overnight. This decision, according to the researchers, is putting a considerable strain on power grids.By 2025, the United States will have more than 20 million EVs on its roads. According to Bloomberg, by 2030, more than half of car sales will be electric. The strain is increasing, and power grids are ill-equipped to shoulder the load.If Bloomberg's projection proves to be correct, then, as the researchers note, it will take 5.4 gigawatts of energy storage to charge EVs. To put 5.4 gigawatts into perspective, one nuclear power plant produces 1 gigawatt of energy. The United States currently has 55 power plants. To facilitate the new EV revolution, the United States requires many more. Considering California, the largest state in the country, has moved to ban the sale of gas-powered cars, and other states are considering introducing similar measures, the United States needs to get a move on. Time is very much of the essence.What would happen if, say, the power grid was to fail in EV-crazed California? To answer that question, we need only rewind a few months. This past summer, plagued by scorching hot temperatures, the Golden State's power grid came incredibly close to collapsing.It survived, but only just.The grid will be tested again. With California's desire to boost EV sales, the next test could prove to be an unmitigated disaster. Energy is a finite resource, a fact that seems to be lost on so many EV enthusiasts.In truth, the nation's power grid is already on its last legs. It has been for years. In a sobering piece for Smithsonian Magazine, Massoud Amin, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Minnesota, explained the many ways in which the country's power grid-"the most complex" one ever assembled-could fail. The grid, he wrote, "underpins our economy, our quality of life, our society." Without it, society would be brought to a screeching halt. Crime would rise. Lives would be lost. Chaos would reign supreme.By 2025, according to the American Society for Civil Engineers, the inability of the United States to maintain its many power lines will cost the country dearly-$130 billion, to be exact. EVs, so often hailed as the best thing since sliced bread, come with a whole host of sizable problems.Across the United States, as the author Ben Guess recently noted, there are currently 21 EVs per public charging port. By 2030, to keep up with EV purchasing trends, the United States must install almost 500 charging ports every day for the next eight years.Does this sound realistic to you?Even if the United States does somehow manage to install enough ports, the grid simply isn't strong enough to support the battery-related demands. This is a point that needs to be emphasized, repeatedly and unapologetically. Yes, state-sponsored hackers are a threat, but state-sponsored EV initiatives aren't exactly harmless. In the blind embrace of all things green, we must not lose sight of the bigger picture, the objective realities that stare us straight in the face.Views expressed in this article are the opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoc
Nothing like a wall of text to put one off reading a posted blurb.
To be fair, when you are a sheep and regurgitate stuff that people send you, you can't edit it can you? That's why memes are so easy. This text stuff is complex.
Almost makes you wonder if the OP read it themselves as its so hard to read???
A few misconceptions in that article. The grid isn't going to suddenly and catastrophically fail because of EVs, but it is possible that local distributions systems might need some upgrading to supply the increased load in some areas. On the flip side, the required storage that the article mentions might actually be provided by EVs since if you have a car sitting in your garage doing nothing with a fully charged battery, why not sell that energy at peak time? Most likely, some time not too far away, there will be a financial market mechanism that encourages this behaviour.
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
The top image is the Minjar gold mine near Southern Cross, but hey
How dare you let facts get in the way of a good, fabricated story.
Google images of lithium mines they are not good.
Are you in favour of electric cars Aus 1111 knowing all the issues that go with it?
Damage to the environment being just one.
What about the cost?
The average person cannot afford 65K or whatever the figure is.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Those holes in the ground provide sites for pump storage hydro in places that are flat and otherwise could never have pump storage.
In the US the government has been building gov funded charging stations, making servos hesitate rolling out their own stations as its not profitable to compete against the gov ones.
Apparently this is slowing their roll out.
The basic laws of physics dictate that it takes a certain amount of energy to move a certain mass a certain distance at a certain speed and that is that.
Whether the car is diesel, petrol or electric powered is irrevelant.
What is relevant is which source of energy uses the least amount of resources.
So to keep the greenies happy we go with electric vehicles but we can't let them be hypocrites can we?
To avoid hypocracy, the electricity for aforesaid vehicles, must come from renewable sources i.e. solar, wind or tidal.
Electricity generated from burning fossil fuels is the most inefficient form of energy due to heat, mechanical and transmission losses.
The high and mighty greenies are full of ideas for protecting the environment but when it comes to practicality, they have NO IDEA.
The energy density of solar, wind etc is so much less than that of fossil fuels which is why you need to build so much more "stuff "to get it.
All built in China of coarse using emission free energy under strict environmental practices and non exploited labour.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
The basic laws of physics dictate that it takes a certain amount of energy to move a certain mass a certain distance at a certain speed and that is that.
Whether the car is diesel, petrol or electric powered is irrevelant.
What is relevant is which source of energy uses the least amount of resources.
So to keep the greenies happy we go with electric vehicles but we can't let them be hypocrites can we?
To avoid hypocracy, the electricity for aforesaid vehicles, must come from renewable sources i.e. solar, wind or tidal.
Electricity generated from burning fossil fuels is the most inefficient form of energy due to heat, mechanical and transmission losses.
The high and mighty greenies are full of ideas for protecting the environment but when it comes to practicality, they have NO IDEA.
The error in that view is that it ignores the fact that electric motors are much more efficient than ICE. Most of the energy that they use gets turned into motion, while most of the ICE energy use produces waste heat.
Bottom line, once electric cars become the only option allowed it will inevitably result in our use of the car dropping massively.
Appreciate the convenience of your car because i doubt if it is going to last much into the next decade.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
The error in that view is that it ignores the fact that electric motors are much more efficient than ICE. Most of the energy that they use gets turned into motion, while most of the ICE energy use produces waste heat.
No error at all because I was not comparing the efficiency of electric motors vs ICEs but yes the electric motor SHOULD be more energy efficient.
What I was comparing is energy generation. Read my words again and digest before reacting.
It would be interesting to calculate how much fossil fuel would be required to generate the kilowatts for an electric vehicle and compare that
to the amount of fossil fuel needed to drive the same vehicle with an ICE with the same kilowatts.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
It would be interesting to calculate how much fossil fuel would be required to generate the kilowatts for an electric vehicle and compare that
to the amount of fossil fuel needed to drive the same vehicle with an ICE with the same kilowatts.
That's a pretty easy comparison to make. Modern internal combustion engines in vehicles achieve around 35% efficiency, which is pretty much the same efficiency you get from a coal or oil fired power station. However, you might then want to allow for transmission losses, which are 5-10%, although, an electric motor also has about 10% losses. That leaves them fairly close. There are losses in the lithium battery also, but thy are very charge efficient...up to around 99%.
However, a combined cycle gas turbine generator is around 60% efficient, so that beats the internal combustion engine hands down.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
What I was comparing is energy generation. Read my words again and digest before reacting.
.
When comparing energy generation efficiency, between fossil and sustainable.
Are you taking into account the amount of energy spent recovering it from the ground?
And the amount of damage caused by climate change?
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Bottom line, once electric cars become the only option allowed it will inevitably result in our use of the car dropping massively.
Appreciate the convenience of your car because i doubt if it is going to last much into the next decade.
That same argument was used when cars first started replacing horse and buggy. It took 30 yrs to get cars to the masses v Model T. Until then it was the rich that had them. History repeating
Select to expand quotecisco said..
It would be interesting to calculate how much fossil fuel would be required to generate the kilowatts for an electric vehicle and compare that
to the amount of fossil fuel needed to drive the same vehicle with an ICE with the same kilowatts.
Not an easy comparison to make with all the fossil energy embedded in manufacture. I'd read one estimate that concluded that, even when charged up by fossil generated electricity, evs come out ahead. But it takes 100,000km to break even. ie. Not much in it. You won't save the planet.
I'd thought the big advantage was the reduction in harmful emissions in the citys. That seems to be the push by the overseas regulators. But then the WHO places particulate matter first in its list of the health hazards from the rubbish coming out the tailpipes.
So the latest Euro emissions standard limits tailpipe particulates to 4.5 mg per kilometer. A modern diesel with a DPF achieves this, (As long as it's well-maintained and snorkel boy doesn't get hold of it). But then do the calculations on tyres. Where does all the rubber go?
A 255/65-R17 tyre loses 3 kg of mass when 5 mm of tread disappears. That's 12 kg in 30,000km. 400 mg per km! And electric cars, being hundreds of kilos heavier like-for-like, burn thru more rubber! It's better for health in the city to stay with well-maintained ICE cars. And no bigger than you need for purpose.
www.greencarreports.com/news/1127424_study-particulate-emissions-from-tire-wear-is-higher-than-from-tailpipes
Select to expand quotedecrepit said.
And the amount of damage caused by climate change?
Shame on you Cisco for not factoring in 'climate change'
Start drinking the Kool aid asap.
One thing that isn't often talked about is the absolute barrel the oil and gas industry/ countries have had us over for decades. War's/human rights/environmental. Saudi Arabia for example pretty much have done as they please because they have Oil, Venezuela etc.. Not saying EVs are going to stop all of that but somewhat take some of their insane amounts of power away from them (yes I know a lot of renewable energy is invested by these companies/countries)
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
....Think those stats might be a little misleading.
Monday morning after the Carantoc has been partying all weekend, then the "personnel care products' category ramps right up.....
know what I'm mean' eh ?? eh ?? nudge-nudge wink-wink, say no more, say no more....
Select to expand quotekato said..Pcdefender said..
Bottom line, once electric cars become the only option allowed it will inevitably result in our use of the car dropping massively.
Appreciate the convenience of your car because i doubt if it is going to last much into the next decade.
That same argument was used when cars first started replacing horse and buggy. It took 30 yrs to get cars to the masses v Model T. Until then it was the rich that had them. History repeating
So if they're so good they should'nt need subsidies to bribe people to buy them.Just let the market decide.
I can still buy a horse and cart if I want one.
