EV's are here to stay, but they are not all they are cracked up to be, in fact thier benefits are marginal at best. EV's and especially thier batteries are heavily CO2 emission intensive. It takes 100k to 150k kilometers just to break even on the construction emissions. ie you have to drive that far in an EV just to catch up to the construction emissions of an ICE. If you only drive 10k km a year in a car, you will be a higher emitter just owning an EV.They are heavy, very heavy. Tire wear, road wear, accident energy and therefore accident severity all go up in EV's.
Fires and related safety are a thing. They are unstable bombs.Battery material costs are going through the roof. Current supply chain can supply 5% of what is needed to meet just current demand. EV's are probably the cheapest they will be right now until a better battery is discovered.
Most experts I have read consider pure EV's are not the way forward due to the issues above, which are all related to the batteries. Hybrid vehicles kill them in pretty much every measure, from usability to emissions.
Question for somebody who knows about induction :- Is the magnetic field a danger to other electronics? Will my pacemaker synchronise with an in road charger?
Select to expand quoteParadox said..
EV's are here to stay, but they are not all they are cracked up to be, in fact thier benefits are marginal at best. EV's and especially thier batteries are heavily CO2 emission intensive. It takes 100k to 150k kilometers just to break even on the construction emissions. ie you have to drive that far in an EV just to catch up to the construction emissions of an ICE. If you only drive 10k km a year in a car, you will be a higher emitter just owning an EV.They are heavy, very heavy. Tire wear, road wear, accident energy and therefore accident severity all go up in EV's.
Fires and related safety are a thing. They are unstable bombs.Battery material costs are going through the roof. Current supply chain can supply 5% of what is needed to meet just current demand. EV's are probably the cheapest they will be right now until a better battery is discovered.
Most experts I have read consider pure EV's are not the way forward due to the issues above, which are all related to the batteries. Hybrid vehicles kill them in pretty much every measure, from usability to emissions.
No no its all magic wind and sun energy for free and koombayaaaah
Examples of embodied energy include: the energy used to extract raw resources, process materials, assemble product components, transport between each step, construction, maintenance and repair, deconstruction and disposal.
we need to consider "embodied energy" with to respect to EV's, and all purchases and lifestyle decisions & choices.
There is no international standard for measurement or agreement ...yet
Embodied energy is measured as the quantity of non-renewable energy per unit of building material, component or system. It is expressed in megajoules (MJ) or gigajoules (GJ) per unit weight (kg or tonne) or area (m2) but the process of calculating embodied energy is complex and involves numerous sources of data.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Induction charging. A very clever idea. No waiting time. I wonder how they would cost that to drivers ?. Maybe a fixed cost via rego renewal ?, or RFID ?. It will give Adelaide councils another excuse to run quick pack trenches down their roads with random metal covers.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
Question for somebody who knows about induction :- Is the magnetic field a danger to other electronics? Will my pacemaker synchronise with an in road charger?
Yeah probably. It depends on the sensitivity of the device. A poorly designed audio amplifier would be in trouble for sure.
I'm guessing your pace maker would have resilience to magnetic hostile places like power lines, fluro lighting, or car ignition systems etc (things that pump out those low frequency fields). I know nothing about pace makers, but I'm sure your pacemaker would be designed in accordance to an international standard ?. I know for sure the ARPANSA RF Radhaz standard (RPS S-1, which is based on the international standard) has pace makers in mind. This is why it's possible for you to operate a smart phone.
Designers would have to design these induction chargers with pace maker users in mind. Maybe they only power these induction chargers when an EV is over them ? (confirmed with an electronic handshake ?). However, if you do have a pace maker, then you would have been trained into the environments to avoid ? (is that correct ?). If so, you would have a better understanding than me.
Select to expand quoteWineman said..
Examples of embodied energy include: the energy used to extract raw resources, process materials, assemble product components, transport between each step, construction, maintenance and repair, deconstruction and disposal.
we need to consider "embodied energy" with to respect to EV's, and all purchases and lifestyle decisions & choices.
blog.gorozen.com/blog/exploring-lithium-ion-electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint?fbclid=IwAR10itcmJ7BlYM61xn2FYysJvc-nS1cTW99SQExxkrh-uekjIEIsNcaZFjc
Select to expand quoteParadox said..Wineman said..
Examples of embodied energy include: the energy used to extract raw resources, process materials, assemble product components, transport between each step, construction, maintenance and repair, deconstruction and disposal.
we need to consider "embodied energy" with to respect to EV's, and all purchases and lifestyle decisions & choices.
blog.gorozen.com/blog/exploring-lithium-ion-electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint?fbclid=IwAR10itcmJ7BlYM61xn2FYysJvc-nS1cTW99SQExxkrh-uekjIEIsNcaZFjc
Wasn't it the urban air pollution that pushed the move to ev ? A return to the 50s would be a good start. The 50s were good fun. Drive cars half the size for half the distance. No more 2.5 tonne SUVs with raging bull elephant snorkels for getting around the burbs. Bring back the corner store. Decentralise Bunnings. 4 times as many 1/4 sized stores. The kids can walk to school. With less traffic they can drag the rubbish bins out on the road for stumps and goal posts rather than you driving them to the sporting complex.
If you want to drive an electric car, it seems that it is not the end of the weekend
insideevs.com/news/586688/tesla-model-x-achieves-71percent-its-epa-range-while-towing-bowlus-rv/
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
If you want to drive an electric car, it seems that it is not the end of the weekend
insideevs.com/news/586688/tesla-model-x-achieves-71percent-its-epa-range-while-towing-bowlus-rv/
Internal testing performed by Bowlus that mimicked EPA highway fuel economy tests in real-world conditions resulted in...
Obviously couldn't simply hook one up and go drive 235 miles. Had to do something else and then claim it mimicked "real world conditions". It's all in the sales brochure
I guess you need the campervan thing to then live in for 40 days while your solar panel recharges the batteries so you can drive the 235 miles back home.
Probably a good thing though. All I have to do is live 236 miles away from a city and I'll never see myscreenname's ****tard neighbors or their like.
Select to expand quoteIan K said.. Wasn't it the urban air pollution that pushed the move to ev ? A return to the 50s would be a good start. The 50s were good fun. Drive cars half the size for half the distance. No more 2.5 tonne SUVs with raging bull elephant snorkels for getting around the burbs. Bring back the corner store. Decentralise Bunnings. 4 times as many 1/4 sized stores. The kids can walk to school. With less traffic they can drag the rubbish bins out on the road for stumps and goal posts rather than you driving them to the sporting complex.
blog.gorozen.com/blog/exploring-lithium-ion-electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint?fbclid=IwAR10itcmJ7BlYM61xn2FYysJvc-nS1cTW99SQExxkrh-uekjIEIsNcaZFjc
Spot on.
Not that I was around then but anyway... YES!
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
Wasn't it the urban air pollution that pushed the move to ev ? A return to the 50s would be a good start. The 50s were good fun. Drive cars half the size for half the distance. No more 2.5 tonne SUVs with raging bull elephant snorkels for getting around the burbs. Bring back the corner store. Decentralise Bunnings. 4 times as many 1/4 sized stores. The kids can walk to school. With less traffic they can drag the rubbish bins out on the road for stumps and goal posts rather than you driving them to the sporting complex.
Soccer mums existed in the 70's. There just wasn't so many of them. I remember being the poor kid living on a middle income street in east England when I was 7. The rich mum down the street would drive her kids to their exclusive private school every day. The mum would wear white leather driving gloves to get purchase on her Land Rover's steering wheel with all the accessories that had never seen a dirt road in it's life, and the two stuck up daughters, who never were allowed to play outside, would stick their noses up at us "riff raff" walking to school. Every other family on my street owned one small car. Similar cases when I moved to Australia.
Select to expand quoteIan K said.. A return to the 50s would be a good start. The 50s were good fun. Drive cars half the size for half the distance. No more 2.5 tonne SUVs with raging bull elephant snorkels for getting around the burbs. Bring back the corner store. Decentralise Bunnings. 4 times as many 1/4 sized stores. The kids can walk to school. With less traffic they can drag the rubbish bins out on the road for stumps and goal posts rather than you driving them to the sporting complex.
back in the 50's my Dad was cruising around in a '32 Deuce, his City Beach Surf Club mates were either running similar, or proper British motorcycles or outfits - so back to the '50's sounds fine to me! 
Select to expand quotejn1 said.. Soccer mums existed in the 70's. There just wasn't so many of them. I remember being the poor kid living on a middle income street in east England when I was 7. The rich mum down the street would drive her kids to their exclusive private school every day. The mum would wear white leather driving gloves to get purchase on her Land Rover's steering wheel with all the accessories that had never seen a dirt road in it's life, and the two stuck up daughters, who never were allowed to play outside, would stick their noses up at us "riff raff" walking to school. Every other family on my street owned one small car. Similar cases when I moved to Australia.
No soccer mums with Landies when I was a kid in the 70's, nearest to that for us was the whole team cramming into the coaches Commer van to get to a match.
Our Scout troop was known for travelling from Balga to the South west - on the tray of the leaders truck 
As a safety measure [to keep the Mums happy] he reluctantly fitted dodgy mesh gates to stop us sliding over the side.
The sight of a 12 [??] tonner flat bed with around 30 Scouts + camping gear and canoes driving over the narrows bridge would be inviting Mr. Plod to have a dummy spit these days. 
Select to expand quotejn1 said..
Soccer mums existed in the 70's. There just wasn't so many of them. I remember being the poor kid living on a middle income street in east England when I was 7. The rich mum down the street would drive her kids to their exclusive private school every day. The mum would wear white leather driving gloves to get purchase on her Land Rover's steering wheel with all the accessories that had never seen a dirt road in it's life, and the two stuck up daughters, who never were allowed to play outside, would stick their noses up at us "riff raff" walking to school. Every other family on my street owned one small car. Similar cases when I moved to Australia.
Yeah yeah, but once those stuck up private school girls hit a certain age, I bet you took great delight in playing the bad boy from the wrong side of the street and nailing them to thier headboards when thier parents were off at the country club.... 
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
Wasn't it the urban air pollution that pushed the move to ev ? A return to the 50s would be a good start. The 50s were good fun. Drive cars half the size for half the distance. No more 2.5 tonne SUVs with raging bull elephant snorkels for getting around the burbs. Bring back the corner store. Decentralise Bunnings. 4 times as many 1/4 sized stores. The kids can walk to school. With less traffic they can drag the rubbish bins out on the road for stumps and goal posts rather than you driving them to the sporting complex.
You can't just pick the good stuff though, you still have to take the rubbish health care and dying in your 50's, appalling infant mortality rate, rampant poverty because things are so expensive relative to wages, your neighbor beating the crap out of his wife every night or if he isn't doing that he is doing his 10yo daughter and no one lifts a finger, ditch computers and the internet and mobile phones and low cost anything from china, take the vote off women and make sure they get dinner on the table by 5.30pm while dealing with the 6th kid they have just spat out, because no pill.
It all comes packaged in a bundle, we can go backwards but we may not like it.
Select to expand quoteParadox said..jn1 said..
Soccer mums existed in the 70's. There just wasn't so many of them. I remember being the poor kid living on a middle income street in east England when I was 7. The rich mum down the street would drive her kids to their exclusive private school every day. The mum would wear white leather driving gloves to get purchase on her Land Rover's steering wheel with all the accessories that had never seen a dirt road in it's life, and the two stuck up daughters, who never were allowed to play outside, would stick their noses up at us "riff raff" walking to school. Every other family on my street owned one small car. Similar cases when I moved to Australia.
Yeah yeah, but once those stuck up private school girls hit a certain age, I bet you took great delight in playing the bad boy from the wrong side of the street and nailing them to thier headboards when thier parents were off at the country club....
LOL.. I came to Australia before puberty, so that condition never happened. I do have a story to tell about this rich family. I reckon it would make all of you as parents either very angry or very happy.
Select to expand quoteParadox said.
You can't just pick the good stuff though.
Why Not? Keep the internet, keep drone pizza delivery, the monkey pox jab, just reduce our expectation of personal mobility to that of the 50s. A car the size of a morris minor powered by a modern ICE doing 8,000 km pa should have less of a negative footprint than an 80kWh Tesla doing 20,000km.
Amusing to read all the same questions / comments / opinions from people who think they are the first to ask / think of the same lame questions that have been answered many, many times before. It is like you think you're a geniuses for thinking it up.
Like a "gotcha" moment.
Yes, your right, EVs won't save the planet, but they are much better alternative on a number of fronts.
There is more to it than reducing the CO2 emissions. Lots of bad stuff comes out of the tailpipe.
You see it in the smog on a cold still day with an inversion layer holding it down.
If you think the pollution a ICE car produces isn't bad for you, why don't you pipe it into the cabin instead of spewing it out the back for the person behind, or the kids walking past on the way to school. Saw it today picking up a nephew from day-care on a busy inner city street. A large bus taking off from the lights and a big plume of smoke billowing out across the playground where the kids were. Crazy stuff.
Yes, the current EVs won't suit everyone and they are costly. But like anything new, it will improve.
Wife has had a EV for 2 years and done 40,000 km on it in that time. $350 in "Servicing" (Check this, check that... not replace this, replace that)
Most of the charging from excess solar via a smart charger, so only costs the loss of feed in tariff which will eventually be abolished anyway.
There is something really nice not having to go to the petrol station and pay someone when you can just make it for yourself.
It is just a matter of time before there will be something to suit 95% of use cases. For the rest, dino juice...
Looking forward to an EV van that is affordable so I can swap out the diesel. Probably Hyundai will be the first.
But, you know what........ doesn't matter what yours or my personal opinion is, they are here now and only going to improve and nothing will stop it.
Select to expand quoteGavGav said..
If you think the pollution a ICE car produces isn't bad for you, why don't you pipe it into the cabin
Because the poison is in the dose. For the same reason you wouldn't drink a 355ml can of 100% alcohol but a 5% beer goes down safely.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..GavGav said..
If you think the pollution a ICE car produces isn't bad for you, why don't you pipe it into the cabin
Because the poison is in the dose. For the same reason you wouldn't drink a 355ml can of 100% alcohol but a 5% beer goes down safely.
Well thankfully they took the lead out of fuel as there is no safe "dose"
Reading some of the posts on this thread would have been like listening to the grumpy old horse and cart enthusiasts 100 years ago bitching about the introduction of the Model T Ford
Were tribal, and sometimes see a new tribe will win and join and others just want to die out with theyre tribe. The rest is just noises.
Select to expand quotemoon waxing said.. Reading some of the posts on this thread would have been like listening to the grumpy old horse and cart enthusiasts 100 years ago bitching about the introduction of the Model T Ford
Yeah but if the actual reality does not match what the koombayaaah crowd are pushing so hard, those who know need to speak up so we don't end up with a big disaster. Like Paradox's post which was quite informative
Maybe if the horse n cart crowd were banging on about carbon emissions we wouldn't be where we are now with climate change? But we'd have missed so much development for other things that ICE power provided. So we do need to have the hard conversations.
Select to expand quoteGavGav said..
Amusing to read all the same questions / comments / opinions from people who think they are the first to ask / think of the same lame questions that have been answered many, many times before. It is like you think you're a geniuses for thinking it up. Like a "gotcha" moment.
Yes, your right, EVs won't save the planet, but they are much better alternative on a number of fronts.
There is more to it than reducing the CO2 emissions. Lots of bad stuff comes out of the tailpipe.
You see it in the smog on a cold still day with an inversion layer holding it down.
If you think the pollution a ICE car produces isn't bad for you, why don't you pipe it into the cabin instead of spewing it out the back for the person behind, or the kids walking past on the way to school. Saw it today picking up a nephew from day-care on a busy inner city street. A large bus taking off from the lights and a big plume of smoke billowing out across the playground where the kids were. Crazy stuff.
Yes, the current EVs won't suit everyone and they are costly. But like anything new, it will improve.
Wife has had a EV for 2 years and done 40,000 km on it in that time. $350 in "Servicing" (Check this, check that... not replace this, replace that)
Most of the charging from excess solar via a smart charger, so only costs the loss of feed in tariff which will eventually be abolished anyway.
There is something really nice not having to go to the petrol station and pay someone when you can just make it for yourself.
It is just a matter of time before there will be something to suit 95% of use cases. For the rest, dino juice...
Looking forward to an EV van that is affordable so I can swap out the diesel. Probably Hyundai will be the first.
But, you know what........ doesn't matter what yours or my personal opinion is, they are here now and only going to improve and nothing will stop it.
Take is easy. Most of us on this thread are not professional engineers or scientists. Nor is this thread a peer reviewed scientific report. We are just discussing; pub talk etc, yes ?
Will your wife's EV get you to Beachport SA and back ? (plus other excursions in the area ?). This is probably ok for just you, but what if everybody is doing this ?. Would tourists expect the Beachport caravan park to become the power network for GPSTC speed week ?. Would it become a free for all to charge up EVs with no planning/notice to the Beachport power network ?. How would Beachport power network cope with all these cars needing to charge up at the same time when for 11 months of the year it is nothing ?. Would you expect the Caravan park and network to invest in their infrastructure for just one month of surge activity ?. This is just an example of Beachport SA (Lake George), but I hope this highlights the challenge we face in AU that is different from a small country or a city. Again, I am not an engineer or scientist.
As you said, these technical challenges will be solved over time. I myself look forward to my first electric bike or car that has the range, reliability and convenience of petrol powered vehicles. I just don't think EVs or the infrastructure is there yet, that's all.
Select to expand quoteGavGav said..
Well thankfully they took the lead out of fuel as there is no safe "dose"
Yeah wasn't that good of them. Amazing how all our ancestors ever managed to survive long enough to breed and produce us.
