I wish I could say I'd ridden the Amos but I haven't yet. Here's what I have ridden:

90 kg rider with a focus on surf/carve experience.

Board #1
Kalama e3 dw/prone/wing board. 83l 5'3"x22" 11.5lbs
I did probably close to 50 sessions on this board in wind from 5-55 knots and foils from 700-1780. Everything from big swell on DW runs to, long upwind rides, to flatwater games in light winds. Here's what I came up with:

Lightwind PR: 5-21 knots, average 12. fs1000 with 227 tail and 4.2m Cloud IX wing. Usually I needed my 1150 for lightwind days on this foil. While I was very happy with the low end, I did note that this board was a little sticky at times. The nose grabs the water when pumping up in light winds and it caused me to fall off at times. Still, great low end.

Highwind PR: 32-55 knots, average 37. fs850 foil with 157 tail and Strike v3 2m from F-One. Definitely a struggle to get onto foil with the 2m and the 850 in these winds with this board. Lots of time spent taxiing around between gusts. Nature of the beast for riding crazy stuff like this but I really wanted to use a smaller foil and it just wasn't compatible with the 2m and this board which is why I sought out something different.

Stability on water: Felt good to me side to side on a 76cm mast most days. Fore to aft stability was lacking a bit.

Stability in the air: Good, but not as good as my 8' barracuda. Foot switches felt very twitchy and questionable on my smaller foils.

Prone paddle: Not fast. Not terrible, but not fast.

Surf experience: For me, this board was more fun for casual riding, swell chasing, long glides, etc. I didn't like the way it felt when pushing hard turns, it always seemed a little dull IMO. I think this is the shorter length. Having a little bit of swing weight has proven to be preferred for me so that there is a feeling of throwing the board around, and not just trying to quickly dance back and forth on the foil. That actually allows me to surf harder since I feel more connected to the board and foil.


Board #2
Omen 60l.
With this board being -30l to kg it was forcing me to size up my wing in order to get up on foil. I wasn't willing to do so, so I couldn't evaluate it other than by saying that it does not start as efficiently as the other boards do.


Board #3
Cloud IX custom. 83l 6'3"x20" 9.5lbs
This was the fastest board I've ever ridden. Just a lightning bolt on the water. Unfortunately it was mostly destroyed in shipping by massive heat exposure so I didn't ride it more than a handful of times. It almost felt like it hated water since it got to foil so fast. As light as it was, in the air it felt like riding with a wisp of a cloud below me. I'm not sure if I would have loved the super light weight long term or not. I wish it wouldn't have been so badly damaged.


Board #4
Sunova Carver 5'10"x20" 10.75lbs (vapor construction and no footstrap inserts)
Only two sessions on it so far but here's what I've got:

Lightwind PR: 9-19 knots average 14. fs700 with catalyst tail and 4.2m Cloud IX Ho'Okipa wing. Right away this is exciting for me. Normally I would have needed my 1150 with a large stab to ride in these conditions. This board jumped me down 2 foil sizes and 4 stab sizes and I did that in my first 2 days of trying it. I have not yet felt the sticky feeling that I was struggling with on my wide nose kalama.

Highwind PR: TBD. Theoretically, this board will allow the use of the 2m in high winds with a smaller front foil which in turn will decrease the massive windload that hits my body when feeling the drag of the 850 or larger foils. Goal will be to ride the 700 or 550 in the most extreme winds with a hope of cracking the 60 knot mark.

Stability on the water: An obvious step down from the Kalama. 20" vs 22" isn't a horrible difference, but I undoubtedly can tell the shift in stability. Fore to aft stability is, however, increased.

Stability in the air: I think this is one of the biggest things I like about having a little more nose on my board. Once in the air it helps smooth out any/all twitchiness. Today on the fs700 with a 66cm mast (almost as fast/twitchy as I can get, and I've never ridden the 700 with my 66cm mast before) it was very under control. A misstep on a foot switch was easy to correct and touchdowns were inconsequential. The 10.75lbs lightweight pointed nose whipped around in gybes incredibly fast, better than my e3 fat nose at 11.5lbs. Worth noting is that my foot on the Carver has 3 more inches in front of it than it does on the e3.

Prone Paddle: TBD. Expected to be fast.

Surf experience: TBD. First impressions are good. The foil, to board, to wing, to rider ecosystem feels excellent on my first few rides. I would want to have 25 warm water sessions to fully evaluate but my first few rides tell me that the rail to rail swing experience is faster and more connected than on my Kalama.


Currently, the shiny new Carver is my favorite but as I mentioned, another 25 sessions in prime conditions would be ideal to fully evaluate.

@bwalnut
be good if you could get some video of you getting on and getting going in 30knts mega chop with the carver

I am in a similar boat to Velociraptor and have also written up my experience with the Amos Sultan Wing 5'10" 85 L (my weight is 85 kg). I am adding my thoughts there since I believe the group of folks with experience in both would be tiny; if there is even one person, I would be surprised.

The significant difference that Amos implemented in the design compared to most other builders seems to be his approach to width. The 85 L board is 18". It is a needle. I know that others have gone for 20" in their approach. Amos tends to be at the forefront of innovation, and if you look at his team riders, it's not a surprise. The Sultan Wing was influenced by Adam Bennets. Hence, the width.

The only single drawback of the board is that it is a challenge once the water state is unruly. I have found that to be from about 25 knots. I had some long swims in the early weeks. Now that it is coming to three months with the board and countless hours under my belt, it doesn't bother me too much. I have used only this board since buying it. It's fantastic in the waves and, of course, flat water. It excels in DW wing conditions. It's easy to carry (I carry it with the board on my back with the mast in front of me). I ride strapless and would build it without straps next time (the weight of my board is only 5.3 kg, though).

The many advantages are well described and I will not delve on those. Like @BWalnut, I think the shape is here to stay.

Ideally, I would like to compare my board to a 95 L, 20" wide at 6'. I think that will give it some extra low end and make it slightly easier to get going in light wind. At the other end of the wind range, maybe I should also use my 40 L sinker a bit more when the wind gets to beyond 25 knots.

There is only upside in this approach to board design in my opinion.

BWalnut said..

leepasty said..
@bwalnut
be good if you could get some video of you getting on and getting going in 30knts mega chop with the carver

lol, nah I'm there to ride not make videos of water starts. My average session is 3-4 hours and I probably spend less than 5 minutes of that doing water starts, that comes out to be 2% of my time in the river at most. The huge list of pros outweigh any con related to balancing in chop for such a tiny sliver of time. I checked my logs and this past year I had 37 sessions where the wind average was 30 knots or higher and not once did I ever write down a note about struggling with water starts because of the chop.

If something changes I'm happy to share my notes on it but otherwise I'm just going to keep ripping.

Haven't you just got the carver?
You only need to film for 1 minute, getting going and riding.
it's pretty easy and will be quicker than writing massive paragraphs
also much easier for people to see how the board performs

ArthurAlston said..
I am in a similar boat to Velociraptor and have also written up my experience with the Amos Sultan Wing 5'10" 85 L (my weight is 85 kg). I am adding my thoughts there since I believe the group of folks with experience in both would be tiny; if there is even one person, I would be surprised.

The significant difference that Amos implemented in the design compared to most other builders seems to be his approach to width. The 85 L board is 18". It is a needle. I know that others have gone for 20" in their approach. Amos tends to be at the forefront of innovation, and if you look at his team riders, it's not a surprise. The Sultan Wing was influenced by Adam Bennets. Hence, the width.

The only single drawback of the board is that it is a challenge once the water state is unruly. I have found that to be from about 25 knots. I had some long swims in the early weeks. Now that it is coming to three months with the board and countless hours under my belt, it doesn't bother me too much. I have used only this board since buying it. It's fantastic in the waves and, of course, flat water. It excels in DW wing conditions. It's easy to carry (I carry it with the board on my back with the mast in front of me). I ride strapless and would build it without straps next time (the weight of my board is only 5.3 kg, though).

The many advantages are well described and I will not delve on those. Like @BWalnut, I think the shape is here to stay.

Ideally, I would like to compare my board to a 95 L, 20" wide at 6'. I think that will give it some extra low end and make it slightly easier to get going in light wind. At the other end of the wind range, maybe I should also use my 40 L sinker a bit more when the wind gets to beyond 25 knots.

There is only upside in this approach to board design in my opinion.

I'd love to try that board! How much do you think the tippiness is related to width vs thickness? If your sultan was an inch thinner, would that relationship change the balance feel? I have been thinking about this with the carver as the width to thickness ratio is 4-1. The sultan is 3-1 I think?

I haven't ridden either board, but I do have the AFS Blackbird 6'2" x 21.1" @ 90l. ~87kg rider. I've ridden this board a handful of times now, and I have limited experience on the Duotone DW 7'2" @ 115l and a custom DW board of similar dimensions to the Duotone. I also ride the Sky Style TE/SLS 75l and PPC Soar Pro 75l (and two years ago my everyday board was the Sky Wing 60l)

What I do like about the AFS is that the deck width at the back foot position is wide, like a regular board. The other two DW boards I rode I felt like my toes were hanging over the rails on the back foot and I ride fairly inline stance. The longer waterline boards (and they also had more volume but about the same width) did glide better in low power situations... especially slogging, but the AFS gets foiling significantly earlier and with less effort than the "normal" boards I rode the same day and once up and flying felt very much like a normal board.

I think the mid-length board really has a place for people who just want a board for winging and aren't necessarily going to paddle it. The BB is about 2' of board length ahead of my front foot.

There's a video review of this board on YouTube where the guy is jumping and doing freestyle on it which I find a bit strange, but hey, whatever makes you happy I'm good with it. I ride without a harness or straps, but it's as nice option to have strap inserts if I change my mind or need to demo to a guy who uses straps.

I'm having fun on this board and it is my go-to in the offseason so I don't have to worry about being able to get foiling or make it back home. So far have only ridden with the Silk 850 and 1050 but will try as soon as I can with other foils.

I did try to measure the board thickness at the foil boxes and I estimate it to be ~4.5" which is quite thin. The board features a bulb nose and a pretty dug out deck.

would be interesting to try a smaller version of this board for our normal summer conditions (usually on 3.5)

98kgs, 6'3, I have a carver 6'2 x 20 x 95L (barg 4.7) and a SLS 7'8 x 22.5 x 135L (barg 5.5), I do not jump winging, only kite foiling, and I sup, kite, wing, and learning to DW. If the wind is frontal or sketchy, gusty and less than 12 ish knots, then I much prefer the SLS as it is longer which means more stable and I can stand easier waiting for the next gust, on the carver it sinks half way to my knees and is way more unstable. The SLS doesn't feel that much bigger than the carver on the water or in flight and I can still tack easy with it.

If the wind is > 12 kn the carver is the choice, but typically with a big wing 6m, if > 15 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m, if wind > 17-18 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m and foil. If wind was greater than 20 kn constantly I would want to have a smaller board say 50L prone board.

If it is really choppy, long narrow boards are challenging to stand on and can be very directional, everything is a compromise, but I would not own a board now wider than 22.5", maybe for beginners initially but once you can gybe or get your paddle balance, get on a narrower board would be my recommendation, you will progress much faster.

On a 20' board you can carve much harder and it is noticeable between the two boards.

My minimum barg factor now is >= 4.5 for a board.

I'd like to try an 8'0 x 20' x 130-135L, this could be the next board for me.

noepoxy said..
98kgs, 6'3, I have a carver 6'2 x 20 x 95L (barg 4.7) and a SLS 7'8 x 22.5 x 135L (barg 5.5), I do not jump winging, only kite foiling, and I sup, kite, wing, and learning to DW. If the wind is frontal or sketchy, gusty and less than 12 ish knots, then I much prefer the SLS as it is longer which means more stable and I can stand easier waiting for the next gust, on the carver it sinks half way to my knees and is way more unstable. The SLS doesn't feel that much bigger than the carver on the water or in flight and I can still tack easy with it.

If the wind is > 12 kn the carver is the choice, but typically with a big wing 6m, if > 15 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m, if wind > 17-18 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m and foil. If wind was greater than 20 kn constantly I would want to have a smaller board say 50L prone board.

If it is really choppy, long narrow boards are challenging to stand on and can be very directional, everything is a compromise, but I would not own a board now wider than 22.5", maybe for beginners initially but once you can gybe or get your paddle balance, get on a narrower board would be my recommendation, you will progress much faster.

On a 20' board you can carve much harder and it is noticeable between the two boards.

My minimum barg factor now is >= 4.5 for a board.

I'd like to try an 8'0 x 20' x 130-135L, this could be the next board for me.

I love that the using the barg factor is working for you.

Have you tried the SLS in the waves? I'm still hunting for the right width on a supfoil for surfing. I picked up a really beat up old Kalama e3 6'5"x23.5" 116l barg factor 4.57 that I'm going to give a crack in the waves in the next week or two. Hoping it has enough width to allow me to stand in a traditional sup paddle stance while waiting for waves. If it doesn't work out for me, I think it would be a cool board to offer up for beginners to use and learn to wing on.

BWalnut said..

noepoxy said..
98kgs, 6'3, I have a carver 6'2 x 20 x 95L (barg 4.7) and a SLS 7'8 x 22.5 x 135L (barg 5.5), I do not jump winging, only kite foiling, and I sup, kite, wing, and learning to DW. If the wind is frontal or sketchy, gusty and less than 12 ish knots, then I much prefer the SLS as it is longer which means more stable and I can stand easier waiting for the next gust, on the carver it sinks half way to my knees and is way more unstable. The SLS doesn't feel that much bigger than the carver on the water or in flight and I can still tack easy with it.

If the wind is > 12 kn the carver is the choice, but typically with a big wing 6m, if > 15 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m, if wind > 17-18 kn then I size down my hand wing to 5m and foil. If wind was greater than 20 kn constantly I would want to have a smaller board say 50L prone board.

If it is really choppy, long narrow boards are challenging to stand on and can be very directional, everything is a compromise, but I would not own a board now wider than 22.5", maybe for beginners initially but once you can gybe or get your paddle balance, get on a narrower board would be my recommendation, you will progress much faster.

On a 20' board you can carve much harder and it is noticeable between the two boards.

My minimum barg factor now is >= 4.5 for a board.

I'd like to try an 8'0 x 20' x 130-135L, this could be the next board for me.

I love that the using the barg factor is working for you.

Have you tried the SLS in the waves? I'm still hunting for the right width on a supfoil for surfing. I picked up a really beat up old Kalama e3 6'5"x23.5" 116l barg factor 4.57 that I'm going to give a crack in the waves in the next week or two. Hoping it has enough width to allow me to stand in a traditional sup paddle stance while waiting for waves. If it doesn't work out for me, I think it would be a cool board to offer up for beginners to use and learn to wing on.

yes I have tried the SLS in waves, it's stable but if a lot of water movement or over a shallow sandbar, one has to be quick to feet and catch the wave, you won't stand there waiting for minutes waiting for a wave like on a fat board, a different technique is required. It really depends on how good you are at balance and your wave hunting skills.

This video is a good example

leepasty said..
I still find it strange that I've still not seen any video of people riding these boards in choppy sea state over 25knts when there's so much talk about how good they are.
Ive been asking for over 6 months but still nothing, it's not hard to film either someone from land or GoPro on the wing. only video I've seen is light wind smooth water and yes then they are good but no video of normal wave conditions over 25knts with cross chop

I'm abt 80kg and ride the Armstron 85L 6'3 x 18,75" and it's magic. I have ridden it in to avg 30 and gusting 40knots with very choppy waterstate, no problem. Waterstart is of course a bit trickier but when getting on knees I'm using the front handle of the wing to stabilize things - works well. Of course beach break has more leverage on the board, but Ican take that in our conditions. Sorry I have no footage - having a MF knee problem; meniscus and MCL tear. Hopefully no arthritis.

In the last 2 months I ride only 7'2" x 18" DW board in variety of conditions.In messy chops narrow board is harder to balance to knee start but you will get use to it after a few sessions. I use rodeo stinkbug in extreme chop but most of the time I just did normal knee start. You will learn how to get up on your feet on this torpedo board. Similar to when you downsize from the beginner board. It is normal to get very frustrated on the first couple of sessions.I think roll axis instability of the narrower board is easier to manage than the fore-aft instability of the shorter board.Now I'm waiting for my custom Carver to arrive.

Mikedubs said..
My Amos Sultan prone/wing 5'5 x 19 x 65l arrives soon. I'm 80kg naked, used to have a 22" wide Rocket wing S.
I'm keen to get on it, might need the rodeo start, but hoping my "sniper" semi waterstart I use, that I posted on before, will still do the trick. I'm in x onshore chop and windswell

Mike.

I'd be keen to hear about your experience. I recall seeing your sniper techinique in the past and sure it will come in very handy.

leepasty said..
I still find it strange that I've still not seen any video of people riding these boards in choppy sea state over 25knts when there's so much talk about how good they are.
Ive been asking for over 6 months but still nothing, it's not hard to film either someone from land or GoPro on the wing. only video I've seen is light wind smooth water and yes then they are good but no video of normal wave conditions over 25knts with cross chop

It's obviously a plot. We are all AI personas.

bolocom said..

Hi Arthur, I think if you lower the volume to -20 to -30 all the tippiness will go away. I wouldn't go under 19", and I think footstraps will give you greater control.if you are fighting the board you have too much volume. In light wind this is not an issue and volume is your friend

HI Diego, do you think that design (i.e. let's say 20' wide and 5' and, for me, 60 L or so) still provides any of the low-end benefit of the boards we describe in this thread? I would love to try that board, but I see it as more of a regular board (i.e. 18 knots or more).

Yesterday, for a good hour, I was the only one having fun at Gerroa. Really marginal wind, I would say 10-12 knots in the gusts with large holes so I had to pump to find the gusts and then jibe in them. I was on a 5.3m2 XPS and the 880 HA foil. Even Jamie was astonished that I was out in those marginal conditions. And then I simply stayed on the same board as the wind picked up, and I switched to a 4m2 wing. This would not be possible on a board -20 L my weight, regardless of design (or at least that's what I think! I could be completely wrong).

I'm toying with the idea of asking Jason to build me another board. Let's chat when you're here again.

ArthurAlston said..

Mikedubs said..
My Amos Sultan prone/wing 5'5 x 19 x 65l arrives soon. I'm 80kg naked, used to have a 22" wide Rocket wing S.
I'm keen to get on it, might need the rodeo start, but hoping my "sniper" semi waterstart I use, that I posted on before, will still do the trick. I'm in x onshore chop and windswell

Mike.

I'd be keen to hear about your experience. I recall seeing your sniper techinique in the past and sure it will come in very handy.

leepasty said..
I still find it strange that I've still not seen any video of people riding these boards in choppy sea state over 25knts when there's so much talk about how good they are.
Ive been asking for over 6 months but still nothing, it's not hard to film either someone from land or GoPro on the wing. only video I've seen is light wind smooth water and yes then they are good but no video of normal wave conditions over 25knts with cross chop

It's obviously a plot. We are all AI personas.

bolocom said..

Hi Arthur, I think if you lower the volume to -20 to -30 all the tippiness will go away. I wouldn't go under 19", and I think footstraps will give you greater control.if you are fighting the board you have too much volume. In light wind this is not an issue and volume is your friend

HI Diego, do you think that design (i.e. let's say 20' wide and 5' and, for me, 60 L or so) still provides any of the low-end benefit of the boards we describe in this thread? I would love to try that board, but I see it as more of a regular board (i.e. 18 knots or more).

Yesterday, for a good hour, I was the only one having fun at Gerroa. Really marginal wind, I would say 10-12 knots in the gusts with large holes so I had to pump to find the gusts and then jibe in them. I was on a 5.3m2 XPS and the 880 HA foil. Even Jamie was astonished that I was out in those marginal conditions. And then I simply stayed on the same board as the wind picked up, and I switched to a 4m2 wing. This would not be possible on a board -20 L my weight, regardless of design (or at least that's what I think! I could be completely wrong).

I'm toying with the idea of asking Jason to build me another board. Let's chat when you're here again.

Hi mate, it obviously doesn't have the low end of a narrow mid length. But I am happily surprised on how easy it pops up. I made it for my son, but after testing it I kept it and order another one but 50L.
I find everything easier on this board, and a lot more fun to ride. I thought it was going to be a high wind board, but it's my go to and I am on it 90% of the time. Unlike most of you here I don't like length and compact boards feel amazing, you are only riding the foil, the board has little input if it is well balanced.
and here is where Pyke is amazing, my board it's not only short but with the boxes and footstraps very forward. This makes it feel even shorter, and when you are on your knees I am on the flat deck not on top of the footstraps. It's also 3.5kg. Next time I see you, give it a go.

leepasty said..

Mikedubs said..
My Amos Sultan prone/wing 5'5 x 19 x 65l arrives soon. I'm 80kg naked, used to have a 22" wide Rocket wing S.
I'm keen to get on it, might need the rodeo start, but hoping my "sniper" semi waterstart I use, that I posted on before, will still do the trick. I'm in x onshore chop and windswell

Mike.

Yeah Mike get some video when it's nice wavey cross chop 3.5 weather

I won't be videoing, I'm from the generation that doesn't feel the need to film and record everything.

I ride Camber sands, and around the Kent coast, so plenty of awkward stuff to ride in, if it works OK, I'll say and you can take my word for it.

Still waiting for it,
Mike

The Gorge is an alien planet. Massive current adding power to your wing at all times. What I can do in the Gorge is worlds away from my typical tropical Florida conditions.

Don't sweat it, just treat Gorge wingers as aliens. haha..