Not wanting to diss these wings because a few of my buddies ride them and rate them highly, but stiffness is not necessarily the only holy grail. I dont believe we have been winging long enough to know what works best. Small and powerful is one way to go and probably best for surf oriented wings where handling is at a premium, but I'm betting that as wing racing takes off we will see wings designed to twist off so that riders can hold a big wing upwind to crank it up downwind. It will split in a few directions. There are some very experienced designers with great teams to feedback making wings (and then some real backyard efforts). You cant tell me that the good ones havent tried larger stiffer tubes. It seems that most of the big players have decided not to go super stiff right to the tips with their gen2 wings. Must be a reason. Time will tell.

I think twist is very important in both windsurf sails and wingsurf wings.. Without it you either get full power or a flapping.. Twist gives control without having to shut the power off or having to fight it.

I need and have very rigid solid windwings. It is critical for me to have instant solid power so my 74yo legs can get me from kneeling to standing.

northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?

BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body

LeighMajor said..

warwickl said..

northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?

BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body

Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?

BT has a couple and the bridals scare me.
My Clouds work well for me.
Plus I Windwing 90% of the time atm.
Did you see my new Moses W1000 front wing?
It has almost the lift of a wing twice its area.
Yesterday was my fist session and too much lift at my 75kg to consistently control kitefoiling but Windwing incredible.
I guess we should get back on the topic

Twist makes a windsurfer sail more controllable in higher winds by spilling wind. Slalom heads could use massive sails in strong wind so go faster. Does not relate to us atm.

A vertical wing (sail) is different from a horizontal wing (hang glider).

In hang gliding it's called washout of the trailing edge. This is very bad for performance.

I'm betting wing dings follow the hang glider design path.

DWF said..
A vertical wing (sail) is different from a horizontal wing (hang glider).

In hang gliding it's called washout of the trailing edge. This is very bad for performance.

I'm betting wing dings follow the hang glider design path.

I do not understand.
In a hang glider washout (or twist) is bad for performance but good for your life expectancy.
Unlike windsurf sails the twist is forced and will be maintained at negative angles of attack by the sprogs.
This is fundamental for the pitch stability of the Delta (tail-less wing).
Many people have died by lowering the sprog angle (decreasing twist) to be faster...at serious HG comps this angles are checked before flying by the organizers.

Hang gliders are similar in shape but their needs are very different from a wingything.

Are we going to start a hang gliding thread boys ? We can go on forever about performance improvements in those, double surface vs single surface , king post vs topless, variable vg, undersurface batterns, 6061, 7075, carbon fibre tips etc etc , but very little of it will apply to these drag bags we are hanging onto atm for foiling.....

kobo said..
Are we going to start a hang gliding thread boys ? We can go on forever about performance improvements in those, double surface vs single surface , king post vs topless, variable vg, undersurface batterns, 6061, 7075, carbon fibre tips etc etc , but very little of it will apply to these drag bags we are hanging onto atm for foiling.....

you missed the whole point I was making. Will wing ding take the next advancement from sails, big twist, or hang gliders, less washout.

I was there at the beginning of all 3 sports. I experienced the game changing single item that changed all these sports. I'm predicting washout reduction for wing ding.

I've already seen a massive washout reduction in a Duotone mini boom prototype.

dejavu said..

warwickl said..

LeighMajor said..

warwickl said..

northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?

BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body

Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?

BT has a couple and the bridals scare me.
My Clouds work well for me.
Plus I Windwing 90% of the time atm.
Did you see my new Moses W1000 front wing?
It has almost the lift of a wing twice its area.
Yesterday was my fist session and too much lift at my 75kg to consistently control kitefoiling but Windwing incredible.
I guess we should get back on the topic

What length of Moses fuselage for the W1000 (I was under the impression that these race foils only worked with the really long fuselages)? You are obviously using an adaptor to connect the Moses fuselage to a Slingshot mast. Can you please let us know the upside and downside of using such a high aspect wing for wing foiling -- why not the Moses 1100 medium aspect large wing? What size of stabilizer are you using?

Thanks for any info.

Off topic but my reply.
I am using the kite fuselage, 647mm lg with 420 stab which is perfect for Windwing.
Next session I'll try the 483 stabiliser as I think it would work better for kite foiling.
I have the 1100 which is an excellent wing but not as fast as the W1000 but speed is not that critical for Windwing.
For my 75kg both wings are excellent.
After a few more sessions I'll post more in a new topic on the new Wind Wing page.

I have been riding the 4.5 in 12-14 knots of wind. Small video:

I was on the 1550 and 1850

Of course I can. :)

I compare it to the Wasps I have. I have had tons on sessions on those.

The Awing is much stiffer and much more direct than the wasp. When pumping you feel all the energy is translated into forward motion instead of the wing absorbing it. This means that the wing is much more powerful. This allows me to, either use a size smaller, or use a small board. I have been learning to wingfoil with a 33 liter board. The more tucked in wingtips help with deep water starts as they are less likely to catch while you are deep in the water.

Over the weekend I have been comparing it to others on the water. I was on the 4.5 Awing. Other on a 6m wasp, 5.4 sling, 5.3 naish and 5 duotone. Of course skills matter here as well. Not saying the others were not good or that I am brilliant (joke), but I was able to get up on foil same as the 6/5.4 and much much earlier compared to the 5.3/5. So safe to say low-end if pretty good.

I also enjoy the lack of flutter. It is more silent compared to the wasp. I also like the handles. They are stiffer compared to the wasp. They take a bit of getting used to as the positioning is slightly different. I am not a window hater. They are in the wing but I hardly use/notice them. Actually only riding switch I'm able to look through them (due to the position of the wing). Beyond that I have been moving the wing up to look around as I have been doing with the wasps. Maybe I'll use them more in the future. One thing to bear in mind when inflating is that the valves are positioned properly and are solid in the wing. They attach with velcro so if they are not in the right place, the bladder might come out. I haven't yet do a weight compare, so do not know which one is heavier/lighter.

To summarize, I consider it to really be in another league compared to the v1 wasp, but I am sure the v2 wasp will be a significant step forward as well.

HubDekkers said..
Of course I can. :)

I compare it to the Wasps I have. I have had tons on sessions on those.

The Awing is much stiffer and much more direct than the wasp. When pumping you feel all the energy is translated into forward motion instead of the wing absorbing it. This means that the wing is much more powerful. This allows me to, either use a size smaller, or use a small board. I have been learning to wingfoil with a 33 liter board. The more tucked in wingtips help with deep water starts as they are less likely to catch while you are deep in the water.

Over the weekend I have been comparing it to others on the water. I was on the 4.5 Awing. Other on a 6m wasp, 5.4 sling, 5.3 naish and 5 duotone. Of course skills matter here as well. Not saying the others were not good or that I am brilliant (joke), but I was able to get up on foil same as the 6/5.4 and much much earlier compared to the 5.3/5. So safe to say low-end if pretty good.

I also enjoy the lack of flutter. It is more silent compared to the wasp. I also like the handles. They are stiffer compared to the wasp. They take a bit of getting used to as the positioning is slightly different. I am not a window hater. They are in the wing but I hardly use/notice them. Actually only riding switch I'm able to look through them (due to the position of the wing). Beyond that I have been moving the wing up to look around as I have been doing with the wasps. Maybe I'll use them more in the future. One thing to bear in mind when inflating is that the valves are positioned properly and are solid in the wing. They attach with velcro so if they are not in the right place, the bladder might come out. I haven't yet do a weight compare, so do not know which one is heavier/lighter.

To summarize, I consider it to really be in another league compared to the v1 wasp, but I am sure the v2 wasp will be a significant step forward as well.

Thanks for the detailed information. Just to be clear, are you saying you find low end of the AWing 4.5 comparable to the Wasp 6? Do you have any conflicts of interest to disclose? Thanks again.