Gestalt said...

wondered what you guys think of a canon 200mm f/2.8 prime with the 1.4x for windsurfing?

looking at ditching my 70-300mm and i can pickup the above setup new for around $1000 and 2nd hand seems to be around $600-700 depending........

i'm ok with the lack of zoom,

but it has no IS????????

To give you an idea, that surfing pic on the previous page was taken hand-held on the 20D through a Canon 200 f2.0/L IS prime at a distance of about 100m. What you see is cropped a little, but no enlargement that I recall.
A 1.4 extender is obviosuly going to give you a little extra reach. The day was bright enough that the shutter speed was 1/2000 or similar, so IS is going to add nothing there.
TBH, IS is all about hand held shooting. It freezes the camera, not the subject, so if you are on a tripod etc, you don't really gain anything from it. Menna needs it because of her tremor, and she shoots all her horse stuff in hand. Even a monopod is too limiting for her because of all the angles she needs.
I have offered for you to come and check out our lenses any time, to give you an idea.
Hasn't been much swell, but next time there is a big swell, the boardwalk at Kirra is a great place for a test session. Easy to get to, and there is always guys towing in out there for subject matter.
We have a 7D, 200 and 400 prime, and 70-200 zoom. Haircut has at least a 5D and a 100-400L zoom and whatever else I don't know about.
Between us we have enough gear to write a major magazine article, so no excuses really.
I'm suggesting a surf shoot, cos if it's great sailing, who wants to be on the shore ?

I asked Menna, and she thinks the 100-400 L would be a better idea, just for reach. More money, yes. Not sure if they come up second-hand much, but at just over $2K new these days, I'd like to think you could get one at a reasonable price.
Really need to test them all out though to know for sure.

hi ken,

there is too much gear.

i've had a ply with haircuts 100-400 before. was more just looking at the reach etc and not really a proper shoot session. i can say it's high on the list.

but the 200mm prime is 1/3rd of the cost brand new and has better image quality plus a lower stop when in 200mm mode etc.

i've done a lot of research and it is looking more and more appealing. it's one of those keeper lenses from what i can tell.

so have you got a 200mm f2.8 prime for sale? i thought you were selling your 70-200 zoom?

edit..... most of my shooting is hand held. i've started using the monopod but do find it a little restricting at this stage.

double edit.... the 100-400 doesn't loose value so 2nd hand they are still up around $15-1600

Just took thsi today on 20D and 70-200L



Nothing special, but it shows a nice sharp image, with a nice bokeh of a small subject at about 30-40m.

to be realistic - unless we post 100% crops of images, we aren't going to see the real quality (or maybe lack of) of the lenses when posting these samples.

A close up of someones eyes at max and minimum focal lengths, wide open and at f5.6-ish using a flash would give you a nice honest example. i will ask my neighbour if i can use her eyes so u can have some 100% samples

gestalt - i'm pretty confident that the 200 2.8 with a 1.4x will be about the same sharpness as the centre image of your current zoom, but where the 200 will excel will be at the edges and in the corners, and probably less distortion and CA

unless warned beforehand, many folk are surprised at how much even the name brand teleconverters can deteriorate the image

Gestalt said...

nice and clear. is that the 2.8 or 4 70-200?

It's the 70-200 f2.8L IS. An oldie, but a goodie.
I was on Av at 4.5 for that shot. Was practising panning on a running dog, trying to keep the focus point on her face, with some hilarious results. I did get a few usable shots.
A few people have asked us if anyone could have taken the shot of Lily on the previous page, given the same gear. I can now safely say, uh, NO !!!!! Well, not me anyway !!
You are right to go after faster lenses. That is what you really get when you start to spend more. The law of diminishing returns gets to IQ for sure, but what you really pay for is larger apertures. To get that, the glass gets very big very quickly and that costs money.
But, the versatility and usability is the return. 2 stops turns 1/30 into 1/125, and that is a big difference if you are hand-holding.

^ i see....

the I's have it!

ey ey captain

i have no idea

ideal lighting

was wondering what the thought is on the iso test on digtal-picture.com?

looking at the comparisons of my current lens.

even the 200mm prime with 2x extender (400mm) leaves the my current 70-300 for dead (at 300mm) across the whole frame

compared to the 100-400 L f/8 they are almost the same. the 100-400 is sharper but the prime with 2x extender is better in the corners.

that's a very good wrap for a cost effective setup.

Gestalt said...



compared to the 100-400 L f/8 they are almost the same. the 100-400 is sharper but the prime with 2x extender is better in the corners.

I don't think you can rely on that test site all the time. though it's a great start. My 100-400 has virtually no CA in high contrast areas in the corners, while the test photos show it at all apertures / mm on that website

i'd think about how often i was going to use this 200mm + extender setup at f8 if that's what it takes to get the sharpness you want. is it realistic?

forgot to say also, i got the hoya hd cpl after getting back from burrum. have done a few very basic metering tests in manual mode and i seem to only loose about 0.5 stop

i'm pretty happy with it. not only does it let max light through it's tuff as for the beach.

^ yeah the prime is a 2.8 lens so with the 1.4x tele it's f4.

keeping my options open still. looking at a lot of different lenses verse price.

I feel your pain.
I think part of that problem, is that it's only recently that lens prices have come down a bit.
When we bought our 70-200L about 6 yr ago, the retail was $4K and they were only available through a Canon Pro dealer, which were few and far between. I imagine that the same applied to all L lenses.
We ended up getting a grey import lens through an ebay guy called digitalrev for the bargain price of $2800.
Fast forward to today and as a run-out, the price got as low as $2300 new, or there about, though often those prices apply to gear in Hong Kong, and you still have postage and GST to pay. THe new one is $3000-$3300
So, a lot of people who might be selling are calculating the price against what they paid, or what they perceive replacement value to be. The net has changed all the old rules, but this gear is still premium.
The consolation is that these lenses have a long life and retain their value very well.
Before we decided to keep it, we had offers of $1500 for our 70-200, which is over 50% of new. Not bad for electronics gear after 6 yrs.

Gestalt said...

i think for 2nd hand 50-60% is fine. i'm not begrudging people trying to get back some of their outlay. i'm just annoyed that there is no cheaper 2nd hand market.

it's the bidders that are nuts. they are buying 2nd hand gear that starts with no reserve for the price of new stuff. that's crazy.

i figure if people can use the internet to get onto ebay then they can search for cheap gear from retailers also.

for eg, there is a 50mm f1.4 lens 2nd hand currently at $405 with 1 day to go. i can buy the same lens from dd photographic in brisbane (who are the cheapest) for $475 new with a 12 month waranty.

that's only 1 example. peope are buying 70-200mm f4 usm lenses for $800-$900 when new they are $965

the 200mm lens i'm chasing is new at dd for $995. it's the version 2 lens. i've seen the version 1 lens go for the same price 2nd hand.

anyways, 300mm is packed for today.

I agree, that sounds a bit nutty.
Some people are really cheap I guess, and will see a saving of $50 over new as worthwhile. I dunno.
Hope you get some good action today. I'm too sore from a gym session, and the forecast is a bit soft for me to make the schlep.

^ you're right there jamie.

time is on my side in the end as i already have 2 lenses that cover 17-300mm so i'll just keep waiting.

with the new 70-200 is usm 2 out the f4 versions are now being ditched by the retailers so i might look in that direction also.

^ hi ken,

yep the ebay tight arse. i found before that people have this virtual $1000 thing. especially with audio gear. stuff under $1000 seems to almost go for it's replacement price whereas stuff over $1000 seems to have less interest and you can pick up some real bargain. i once bought a $15000 soundcraft mixing desk for $2000

at the closing bid of $2650, that's probably what i'd have expected to pay for a s/h one of those. I don't think anyone got a bargain in the end but it sure looked good in the beginning