Alex H said...

I like KA Sails, what is wrong with them, are they made as well as the other brands like Neil Pryde, Gaastra, Maui Sails ect ?

i dont know about maui sails but im sure that(sails & boards), they have to make change's for an upgrade for the next season but not allways for the better ,e,g they make a sail &board for speed sailing, but doesn't meen it's a great slalom or race

thanks for the tip andrew, i have checked out the rigging guide you posted on the KA site, and your rite the sail doesn't like a lot of downhaul or outhaul, that's why it is such a powerfull sail for a 5/0, if i use it in those conditions ill be happy, but after saying that in my oppion its the mast, the sail could have a bit more shape at the 5th batten(or is that the way its supposed to rig) so ill see if i can borrow a sdm400(could be a bit stiffer) and see how it sets. thanks for your help

Arnold said...

evlPanda said...

Twitchy = + Downhaul, no?

I was out few weeks back on an old KA Kaos, a rarely used sail. Rigged it so it "looked" right... nah. Twitchy as can be, very "on/off" and overpowered. Came into beach, added about 2cm downhaul and presto, perfecto.

When I read a review of a sail where it's stated that the sail was "twitchy until it had all life down hauled out of it", I know that the sail is an unstable POS and is to be avoided like the plague.

You probably didn't understand what I was trying to say. I
have rarely used this sail, and rarely been in the surf, as on this day. You
lost it a bit, assuming that the sail is a POS because I added 2cm to
the downhaul. ie +/-1cm. I was in overpowered conditions but I am
game to move into the surf some more and it was the smallest sail I had.

You haven't added much to this forum apart from anti KA comments.
I think we've seen you before, no? A few months ago as Red Leader or whatever?

I suppose, trolls kinda make a forum.

PS. read the first word of each line in the first paragraph.

Sorry to say it keef but I do think you are on the wrong track. Chris Lockwood has done a lot of tuning and testing in all conditions and we have found pulling shape out through that batten 3 area and stabilising it with a modified batten has been a big improvement in feel, speed and stability. I have not noticed one bit of negative difference from a gybing perspective. Other sailmakers have been progressing in the same direction.

To get back to original question about gybing:

I don't understand the meaning of the statement below. (spelling corrected )

Quote: "....the 2nd setting is download it to what Mark recommends and you have a speed sail that is unbelievably light and powerful in strong winds (with the draught set forward ) but is very unforgiving in the jibe (not enough backhand pressure).

What I don't understand is why anyone would actually want more backhand pressure in a sail that is 'unbelievably light and powerful in strong winds'.

I hate to have to say it but this sounds like more of an issue with Gybing technique. Do you have some photos, or better still videos, of yourself gybing keef? There are plenty here (including myself) who are only too happy to analyse gybes and help with tips.

keef said...


this is the only pic i have it was taken a few years ago, and im happy for any negative comments,....

l, i just did the post to see if anyone had the same problem and obviously nobody has it's only me, and maybe your rite it could be my technique

It's the harness All that extra stitching is weighing you down on one side and making the board respond by digging in the rail!

FormulaNova said...


It's the harness All that extra stitching is weighing you down on one side and making the board respond by digging in the rail!

thats before the harness fell apart if you wasn't 20 kilos heaver than me i would consider selling you the harness cya next time your down my way

Hey keef, that gybe entry looks really good. It's the next part that is always the tricky bit but you are set up well there.

The next steps are to:
- slide the front hand up to the front of the boom
- let go with the back hand while still carving
- give the boom a little push to your left so the sail simply pivots
- reach under and grab the other side of the boom with the new front hand
- switch your feet now by taking your old front foot out of the strap and putting it in the middle of the board between the front and back straps and either slipping the other foot into the new front strap OR putting it on the deck next to the other foot so you can put the other foot into the back strap first.
- plane away with a smile!

see here:




and whole thread of gybing pictures here:

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33774&whichpage=1

keef said...

thanks for the tip Andrew about the front hand, but im trying to skip that bit and grab the mast above the boom to make the rig stable in the gybe

OK. Well my next tip is: Try to do it without grabbing the rig at all. Seriously! If you get the rig push/flip right you can easily let go completely and just grab the boom with both hands at once in the sailing grip positions after the sail flips. If you can't, the position or balance in the flip is probably not right.
Having said that, it is a lot easier to do that at speed on flat water with a smaller sail, but it really is quite a good skills practice to aim for.

My point is, that you should be aiming to gybe the board totally independent of support for your balance from the rig.

Have you ever seen a nimble sailor on a wave board do a quick duck gybe where they just throw the rig over and catch it in the sailing grip on the new tack? Thats what I mean!

keef said...

sailquik said...



Have you ever seen a nimble sailor on a wave board do a quick duck gybe where they just throw the rig over and catch it in the sailing grip on the new tack? Thats what I mean!

hey andrew i know what you meen , you know i spend 80 % of the time in the water doe's that meen im progressing or still learning, you know in 2 years i can get an old timer's card, does that meen i get a goverment discount on the new gear i purchase cos im sure i will be alegibe for free gym fee's

Ahhh, you got me there. Gybing ideas I am fine on but the 'meaning of windsurfing' and the machinations of government are a complete mystery! If you figure it our let me know. I too am only a few birthdays away from official retiree status.

Hey Keef,

Just my 2c from having had a bit to do with testing, development and competing on those sails...

Problems gybing your 5.0m could be too much downhaul and outhaul, or there simply wasnt enough wind where you were choosing to gybe (gusty). The 5.0m sail is small, and will not provide a lot of support unless you have plenty of wind- especially through gybes.

If there are other guys out on 6.0s hanging on comfortably, then the setting you had in the first pic actually looks about right. If you find your body is getting lifted off the board in the gusts, then you need a bit more downhaul. If everything feels balanced on a run, then there is no need to put more downhaul on.

There is a simple balance that needs to be maintained. The centre of effort has to be a certain height for a given stance. If you are sitting very low to the water, you can drop the centre of effort with more downhaul (increasing the twist in the top of the sail). This works up to the point where the shape is sucked from the front of the sail and the profile no longer can handle the large apparent wind angle changes we experience through gybes or in strong (gusty) wind. This works great on flat water for speed conditions (Thats you, Sandy Pt/Vic crew). But in chop we have a more upright stance so the centre of effort needs to be higher.

So with smaller sails, the mast is shorter, so to keep a similar stance and balance you need more shape and less twist at the top of the sail. If you rig a 5.0 to look like a comfortable 6.6m it will feel like crap unless you are sailing in a gale in dead flat water with your bum just about skimming. Some of us get to sail in that (normal day at Sandy Pt), but the rest of the time you will be better off with less downhaul on the smaller sails. Dont listen to the crap from guys saying it needs more downhaul based on what larger race sails look like. It does not apply with 5.0 or smaller.

The reason sub 5.0m wave sails feel quite comfy in 20-30kts is that they dont have a lot of twist, nor shape (camber) down low, so the COE stays at the correct height for balance. You can add some downhaul (=>more twist) to them without sending the COE too low, since the bottom of the sail is relatively flat. This will just depower the sail without significantly lowering the COE. Race sails are a different beast with all that camber down low.

Just thought I'd add, the new ('09) production Koncepts are a significant step up from the past few seasons with much better quality finish, and "out of the bag" performance. Very impressed. Cant wait to try the smaller ones (but might be asking a bit much!)

PS: I just got a new CA SL55- its a weapon... great topend and insane around the corners.

keef, I just tried my new 7.5m today and its _nice_. Rigs cleaner than previous years and the rotation is fantastic. Very happy so far. Cant wait to try the smaller ones.

The new CA slalom boards dont have cutouts. They dont need them. The tails arent super wide so you can run a shorter fin. I really like these longer slalom boards with narrower tails. Way more comfy in rough water- no stressing about burying the nose, and you can do nice long drawn-out carves rather than just the short snappy hub-cap turns of the wider tail boards.