sounds like you may have too much outhaul and not enough downhaul...

Sound like not enough downhaul. Koncepts rotate pretty easily

I agree... downhaul is most likely.

400 mast icms 19 100% and its an 08 sail & full carbon boom, i had some KA CAM space's but there hidden away in a safe place somewhere the pride's do the same job, don't get me wrong it's a powerfull sail and awesome to sail,(just a bit fickle on the jibes) im wondering if any one elese rigs there's 5/0 on a skinny,
i have found that the mini cams change the shape at the mast slightly because they don't have a big knuckle as the standard, maybe that could flatten the sail out at the mast and that could give the sail a feel like it has to much outhaul(any comment's)
I allso have a PRIDE RSS 5/8 08 and rig it on a skinny and i dont have any problems

thanks for the tip choco but do you think that could be the problem

Hi Keef , I am not 100% sure exactly what you mean by " a bit tricky to gybe" could you elaborate. Is it not rotating properly?
If you could take some photo's of it rigged and send them to andrew@kasail.com marked "attention Martin" and I will take a look..
I am thinking that your Loft skinny may be a bit soft in the lower half and the sail is setting a bit flat in the entry down low. If thats the case it is easily fixed with a bit of batten sanding but lets have a look first.
A twitchy sail generally indicates that it is set to flat in the bottom half, too much outhaul. Don't be afraid let the outhaul off so the sail is, or almost touching your boom and control the power with more downhaul. That puts the power down low where you can best handle it and lets the upper leech twist right off and generally solves that on/off power twitchiness.
Regards Martin

mr love said...

Hi Keef , I am not 100% sure exactly what you mean by " a bit tricky to gybe" could you elaborate. Is it not rotating properly?
If you could take some photo's of it rigged and send them to andrew@kasail.com marked "attention Martin" and I will take a look..

thanks martin , what the sail does is when going into the jibe marginal to powerd up it looses the wind 1/2 way through the jibe and stalls, when the wind is up say from 20+ to 30 its fine because i let go of the rig much earlyer and don't loose much speed in the jibe hope i'm not confuseing you.
ill give it a go today as the wind at the moment is 20 to30 sse and ill take a pic

Mark _australia said...

Sounds to me like 'twitchy' is a sail set problem, and the stalling thru a gybe in marginal conditions is separate: lack of power in general and/or technique problem

i hear what your saying mark, dont blame the tools,(can you send me a PM on how to rig a sail cos i'm a slow learner) back in the early 90's i had a 5/0 KA Predator it was a very powerfull sail but again a bit twitchy
i don't have a personal problem with KA sails there a great sail and as i can gather no one else has the same problem
i sailed it today in a lumpy southery gusting 19 to 32 next time ill rig my aerotech 4.5 charge on the same mast and rrd wave, and come to the conclusion horse's for course's

Mark _australia said...

Sorry mate I have no idea.I have no idea about KA race sails

fewwww i'm glad you clear'ed the air on that one mark

looks like too much batten tension on the koncept to me and not enough downhaul.

edit*1st pic that is.

could be wrong though.

I reckon the first is not enough downhaul (you knew that) and the second is a starting point for downhaul... absolute min.
I'd try 20 - 30mm more. (I mean the tack comes down another 20-30mm, not that you pull 20-30mm more rope thru

Hi Keef,

I also have a 5.0 koncept on a rdm for my ca 55. I found they like to be full with not too much outhaul as when they're too flat they get twitchy. Also if you were out yesterday then it was very squally wind with huge shifts which made it annlying

Hi Keef, I agree with Gesalt it looks like you have too much batten tension on the cam battens . They need to be tight but not to the point where you are distorting the film. Not enough downhaul on photo 1.

I guess I still clearly don't understand what your problem is exactly. If it is not rotating through the gybes them definitely the overtensioning of the lower battens will be contributing. If it is "twitchiness" set the sail so the film is just touching the boom, if you are doing this then I can't figure why you would be having real problems. Remember that this is a small sail and by nature is going to feel twitchier that a larger size.

I honestly can't see any problem with the way it is rigging on the Loft Skinny, it looks fine to me in photo 2 which is downhauled correctly. If you compare it to the Pryde you will see the Koncept has more shape down low so and the shaping is a bit more forward. My experience with Pryde race sails is that they have a quite heavy, backhanded feel and if you are doing a direct comparison the Koncept will feel much lighter to handle . Maybe this is what you are not used to? If you look at the sails you will see the draft on the Pryde is further back which gives this feeling of it pulling more on the back hand. Some people prefer this feel, especially bigger ,stronger sailors but they do get quite physical when it gets windy.
With a more forward positioned draft the Koncept doesn,t pull on the back hand as strongly and remains back hand light even when overpowered. If you are used to the feel of the Pryde you may consider this a more twitchy feel ? but I am only speculating.
I hope I have helped. If you do have more photo's I would love to see them but from these shots it appears your mast is not an issue.
Regards Martin

mr love said...


My experience with Pryde race sails is that they have a quite heavy, backhanded feel and if you are doing a direct comparison the Koncept will feel much lighter to handle . Maybe this is what you are not used to? If you look at the sails you will see the draft on the Pryde is further back which gives this feeling of it pulling more on the back hand. Some people prefer this feel, especially bigger ,stronger sailors but they do get quite physical when it gets windy.
With a more forward positioned draft the Koncept doesn,t pull on the back hand as strongly and remains back hand light even when overpowered.

well i think you have answered my question martin, all of my other sails are pride, and your rite im used of the sail being fully powerd up through the jibe,what i found with the KA is that it is very light on the backhand and if you lose power through the jibe there isnt much room for era, the timeing has to be perfect or you'll stall ect, as little jon said the sail likes to be set loose to keep the power in the sail and i tend to agree
as i said i like the power of the sail and how light it feels, i,m sure ill figure it out and ill start at the battens then the mast, maybe the mast is setting the draft in the to close to the mast, i mite get a chanse to use it today in a SW 20knts when i figure it out ill you all know thanks for your help
PS martin the pryde sail is a rss mk11 slalom not rs

I like KA Sails, what is wrong with them, are they made as well as the other brands like Neil Pryde, Gaastra, Maui Sails ect ?