Why no aussies in the olympics?

?

Presumably none of the Australian Windsurfers qualified. I note the NZers didn't either so sadly not good enough standard for Olympics. No one races RSX here so presumably it is not surprising. The RSX is a good illustration of the failure of creating a new class around the Olympics rather than awarding Olympic status to a successful popular class. The Mistral One Design was popular before it became an Olympic class but losing that status actually killed the class as will no doubt RSX the latter of which was stillborn anyway.

On the other hand Australia has entries in the other Olympic classes which are more popular and which entrants qualified:
Australian team set for Tokyo 2020
Published on April 21st, 2021
The Australian Sailing Team has finalized their roster for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics which will carry the hopes of a nation that has collected six gold medals across the past three Olympics. Led by team director Iain Murray, Australia fields a 13-person squad to compete in eight of the ten sailing events.
Australian Team - Tokyo 2020
Matt Wearn, Men's One Person Dinghy - Laser
Mara Stransky, Women's One Person Dinghy - Laser Radial
Mat Belcher and Will Ryan, Men's Two Person Dinghy - 470
Nia Jerwood and Monique de Vries, Women's Two Person Dinghy - 470
Will Phillips and Sam Phillips, Men's Skiff - 49er
Tess Lloyd and Jaime Ryan, Women's Skiff - 49erFx
Jake Lilley, Men's One Person Dinghy Heavy - Finn
Jason Waterhouse and Lisa Darmanin, Mixed Multihull - Nacra 17
None, Men's Windsurfing - RS:X
None, Women's Windsurfing - RS:X

Details: www.australiansailingteam.com.au

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AUS 814 said..
AS require pretty high standards to qualify for the games. ? Something simlar to top 10 finish is world champs etc

I thought that it was top 5 at the worlds. The new Olympic boards are pretty pricey too . Heard 15k USD for everything

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RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
AS require pretty high standards to qualify for the games. ? Something simlar to top 10 finish is world champs etc

Yes something like that and then you have to qualify for the games anyway: www.rsxclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/1-2021-Olympic-MNAs-WEB.pdf

www.rsxclass.org/2021/06/30/kirans-thoughts-before-the-olympic-games-in-tokyo/

I think you have to be in top 5 in the world to get Australian Sailing support or something like that ie be a medal chance, and it applies across all classes. You need to be very dedicated and have loads of money to get there ie travel and compete overseas. Not to mention RSX is so expensive.

I think the cost of the gear is the smallest expense in an Olympic campaign, the RSX was 8 or 9k the IQfoil is 15K a Nacra is about 40k, 49ner is something like that as well., so really the cost of the gear wasn't the barrier. They we never really popular in Australia but around the world the class had some very big achievements. It brought Asia to Olympic sailing, it had a huge global footprint, it had huge participation of women and also huge participation of less developed countries in sailing. It also lasted 4 Olympic cycles which is more than any other windsurf class.

So bag it as you see fit but the reality is looking objectively at what it achieved its probably the most successful Olympic windsurf class to date. That said it had its time and it was time to move on. Cant keep sailing in the Olympics with gear that is clearly old tech.

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RichardG said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
AS require pretty high standards to qualify for the games. ? Something simlar to top 10 finish is world champs etc

Yes something like that and then you have to qualify for the games anyway: www.rsxclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/1-2021-Olympic-MNAs-WEB.pdf

www.rsxclass.org/2021/06/30/kirans-thoughts-before-the-olympic-games-in-tokyo/

I think you have to be in top 5 in the world to get Australian Sailing support or something like that ie be a medal chance, and it applies across all classes. You need to be very dedicated and have loads of money to get there ie travel and compete overseas. Not to mention RSX is so expensive.

I think the cost of the gear is the smallest expense in an Olympic campaign, the RSX was 8 or 9k the IQfoil is 15K a Nacra is about 40k, 49ner is something like that as well., so really the cost of the gear wasn't the barrier. They we never really popular in Australia but around the world the class had some very big achievements. It brought Asia to Olympic sailing, it had a huge global footprint, it had huge participation of women and also huge participation of less developed countries in sailing. It also lasted 4 Olympic cycles which is more than any other windsurf class.

So bag it as you see fit but the reality is looking objectively at what it achieved its probably the most successful Olympic windsurf class to date. That said it had its time and it was time to move on. Cant keep sailing in the Olympics with gear that is clearly old tech.

Agree...but Olympic gear does not have to be latest eg 470 and Laser go back to the 1960s and the Finn even older circa 1949. As to the RSX "They we never really popular in Australia" is really a damning statement. The Laser costs about the same new and is so much more popular. Having consistency in classes year on year is good for growth.

Racing windsurfers is hard, it takes a certain amount of determination and commitment to learn, even getting a competent windsurfer to race is difficult, I have seen many experienced windsurfers struggle to complete a race in only moderate conditions. On a dinghy you can drop a brand new kid in with one that has a bit of experience and they can race there and then. On a windsurfer the average kids needs at least one season of consistent practice before they can start to race then the first season of racing they are way way way behind other kids with a season or two ahead of them. You can't really compare the cost as a reason for the popularity of racing windsurfers to dinghies its not the cost its the difficulty to learn and the TOW required to get to a level that is competent to race across a range of conditions

Maybe because RSX is boring and to the cost of equipment requires a big truck to carry all this stuff comparing taking 13-14m kite in a backpack...? Kids think quick these days.. So they don't want to bother.
Only people I know who have pure racing stuff are big 250+ pound guys. Poor blokes just have no choice.

I don't think any type of boards for Olympic windsurfing is going to grab much attention. It's just not inspirational enough to get people into the sport . Not even the foils. We need people to get into it before even thinking about the Olympics. I suggest the wally class . It's cheap and accessible. It's the biggest racing class in Australia ,possibly the world . People who learn on one know its the board they use in the Olympics which could inspire . Just because it's a wally , it would be just as technical to win on one . And let's face it , it wouldn't be any less interesting to watch in non planing conditions than an RSX. And I think , in crazy conditions , more entertaining to watch . Either way , no one's going to watch it anyway . The wally concept and organised events is the biggest way of racing and getting people into the sport.
My 2 cents.

Although as a windsurfer I kind of feel the wally should be the olympic class, I don't think the sailing community at large agrees. Apparently the IQ class is attracting lots of boat sailors so it must have some sex appeal

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leto said..
Maybe because RSX is boring and to the cost of equipment requires a big truck to carry all this stuff comparing taking 13-14m kite in a backpack...? Kids think quick these days.. So they don't want to bother.
Only people I know who have pure racing stuff are big 250+ pound guys. Poor blokes just have no choice.

It's not really that kids think quick these days. Kiting, or certainly competitive kiting, is far less popular than competitive sailing in slow Optimists, Sabots, Radials, Flying 11s etc. While I really dislike the RSX, it's faster than most of the popular kid's boat classes. By far the most popular sailing for kids is in Optis, then in Radials. The quickest kid's classes are the least popular.

The enormous popularity of the Techno overseas shows that huge numbers of kids love to sail stuff that's slower than an RSX. Kids are very sociable; they love it when you get critical mass at a club fleet.

You don't need a truck for an RSX. You need a roofrack and that's it. Clubs in Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and (I think) Hobart, Newcastle and Wollongong have racks and lockers you can leave a board in.

The LT,s current 5.7 rig would limit it as a super lightweight only board at the olympics.

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leto said..
Maybe because RSX is boring and to the cost of equipment requires a big truck to carry all this stuff comparing taking 13-14m kite in a backpack...? Kids think quick these days.. So they don't want to bother.
Only people I know who have pure racing stuff are big 250+ pound guys. Poor blokes just have no choice.

We have plenty of younger sailors with full racing foil equipment here is Brisbane. Some on IQ, some on cheaper stuff. Not one is over 200 pounds...

Kite foil racing is just as niche as windfoil racing. It can only improve in Oz because of these announcements and we will do our best to get the youngsters into them. The wind wings have taken away many kiters and freeride wind foilers.

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cammd said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
AS require pretty high standards to qualify for the games. ? Something simlar to top 10 finish is world champs etc

Yes something like that and then you have to qualify for the games anyway: www.rsxclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/1-2021-Olympic-MNAs-WEB.pdf

www.rsxclass.org/2021/06/30/kirans-thoughts-before-the-olympic-games-in-tokyo/

I think you have to be in top 5 in the world to get Australian Sailing support or something like that ie be a medal chance, and it applies across all classes. You need to be very dedicated and have loads of money to get there ie travel and compete overseas. Not to mention RSX is so expensive.

I think the cost of the gear is the smallest expense in an Olympic campaign, the RSX was 8 or 9k the IQfoil is 15K a Nacra is about 40k, 49ner is something like that as well., so really the cost of the gear wasn't the barrier. They we never really popular in Australia but around the world the class had some very big achievements. It brought Asia to Olympic sailing, it had a huge global footprint, it had huge participation of women and also huge participation of less developed countries in sailing. It also lasted 4 Olympic cycles which is more than any other windsurf class.

Racing windsurfers is hard, it takes a certain amount of determination and commitment to learn, even getting a competent windsurfer to race is difficult, I have seen many experienced windsurfers struggle to complete a race in only moderate conditions. On a dinghy you can drop a brand new kid in with one that has a bit of experience and they can race there and then. On a windsurfer the average kids needs at least one season of consistent practice before they can start to race then the first season of racing they are way way way behind other kids with a season or two ahead of them. You can't really compare the cost as a reason for the popularity of racing windsurfers to dinghies its not the cost its the difficulty to learn and the TOW required to get to a level that is competent to race across a range of conditions

It depends on how you run beginner's racing. You can get kids racing on about their third windsurfing session, if you have the right sort of very short, easy fun race on the right sort of gear for that approach. We did it quite a few times.

The less experienced kids can then compete against other kids of similar experience level on short and easy courses, sometimes against better kids who also have the option of racing against the adults in the open fleet at other times.

It's similar to the situation in dinghy racing, where you don't throw kids into a Laser Radial against the Olympic women first off; you start them in Optis, often against other Opti beginners.

By the way, the RSX did not get Asia into Olympic sailing. Hong Kong was significant at international level in yachts in the '70s. Japan was at the front of the fleet in Olympic 470s in the 1970s. Malaysia had a fairly good Laser Olympian before 2000. Singapore, Burma and others were at the '56 Olympics. Lei Lai Shan won windsurfing gold for Hong Kong before the RSX was created.

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cammd said..

I think the cost of the gear is the smallest expense in an Olympic campaign, the RSX was 8 or 9k the IQfoil is 15K a Nacra is about 40k, 49ner is something like that as well., so really the cost of the gear wasn't the barrier.

Cant keep sailing in the Olympics with gear that is clearly old tech.

The gear cost may not affect the serious campaigners too much, but it clearly has an effect on the number of people actively sailing the class in the country. There's plenty of club level fleets in Lasers and even in Finns, but none in 49ers, 470s or Nacras.

The other thing is that the Nacras, skiffs and dinghies also have other "feeder" classes with strong club fleets and normally have big youth classes that feed into them. The RSX never really got that here, and there seems to be no sign at all that the IQ Foil will get them.

As a cat sailor it's noticeable that the arrival of the Nacra 15/17 seems to have actually increased the gap between the normal club fleets and the Olympic and Youth classes. In NSW, at least, the small N15 fleet (just 7 boats at the states!!) seems to be mainly kids from big yacht clubs whose parents see them as having a future in pro sailing. Few, if any, are from clubs with cat fleets. It's probably not helping either side.

As noted above, you clearly can keep sailing in the Olympics with old gear. In fact no one has ever shown any evidence that the IOC or anyone else is affected in Olympic choice by the age of the gear, or that the age of the gear has any effect on anything else that is relevant to keeping a sport in the Olympics.

The criteria that are used by the IOC can be found on the OPC page in the IOC site. Age of gear is simply not a factor.

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Chris 249 said..

cammd said..

I think the cost of the gear is the smallest expense in an Olympic campaign, the RSX was 8 or 9k the IQfoil is 15K a Nacra is about 40k, 49ner is something like that as well., so really the cost of the gear wasn't the barrier.

Cant keep sailing in the Olympics with gear that is clearly old tech.

The gear cost may not affect the serious campaigners too much, but it clearly has an effect on the number of people actively sailing the class in the country. There's plenty of club level fleets in Lasers and even in Finns, but none in 49ers, 470s or Nacras.

The other thing is that the Nacras, skiffs and dinghies also have other "feeder" classes with strong club fleets and normally have big youth classes that feed into them. The RSX never really got that here, and there seems to be no sign at all that the IQ Foil will get them.

As a cat sailor it's noticeable that the arrival of the Nacra 15/17 seems to have actually increased the gap between the normal club fleets and the Olympic and Youth classes. In NSW, at least, the small N15 fleet (just 7 boats at the states!!) seems to be mainly kids from big yacht clubs whose parents see them as having a future in pro sailing. Few, if any, are from clubs with cat fleets. It's probably not helping either side.

As noted above, you clearly can keep sailing in the Olympics with old gear. In fact no one has ever shown any evidence that the IOC or anyone else is affected in Olympic choice by the age of the gear, or that the age of the gear has any effect on anything else that is relevant to keeping a sport in the Olympics.

The criteria that are used by the IOC can be found on the OPC page in the IOC site. Age of gear is simply not a factor.

Your 100 percent right we don't have a strong feeder class for windsurfing at all and that is a significant factor, in my opinion, as to why we don't have Olympic sailors, the lack of that feeder class means
1. We don't have a broad base that creates strong competition and provides suitable experience
2. Resources are limited due to the above

So there it is, it turns out the problem is windsurf racing is too niche in Australia, how do you fix it. I don't know, arguing about this class vs that class isn't the answer.

My opinion is we need people to act locally in their area to devote the time to develop juniors, so if you want to get kids on wallies then great, if you want to get kids on techno's then great, if you want to get kids on foils then great, get off the forum and go do it. I will be spending Sunday mornings again this season helping kids to enjoy the sport and some of them may go on pursue Olympic sailing or not, but for an Olympic sailor the campaign starts at the very beginning for them all.

ps. the bit about old tech was just to stir up Richard a bit, don't take it seriously

is it because some of the up and coming youth racers have gone from techno to IQ foil ?

Covid hasn't helped ? - although all Olympic classes have had that challenge

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RichardG said..
Mistral are looking at bringing out a new Equipe which might be the answer. Possibly a modern replica of the Mistral Equipe II XR to be made at Cobra using the original moulds. I suggested to Mistral that there was no point in competing with Raceboard top boards as they are an arms race but like surfing sales can be achieved in traditional retro gear which sees market uptake. As I also suggested to Mistral it is also important the board be from the design stable of the late Harold Iggy as I believe the EII was as this design pedigree provides important heritage. This could be a suitable Olympic longboard provided they make it slightly more expensive than the Windsurfer LT (already in the Mistral range) but less than a typical raceboard. The goal is to be light, durable and cheap. Alternatively if the moulds exist the Equipe III might be adopted and much depends on what moulds exist.

Could they make it 2 piece so able to travel with it.