Brett Morris said...

The RSX was always a compromise, but it was forced to fit into the Sailing format, and I really don't think anyone has an issue with Kites, just not at the expense of windsurfing.

After watching the coverage it seems obvious that the Skiffs and Windsurfing are the most visually interesting. The woman's 470 should be replaced with a skiff, but that is a whole other issue.
How the Star is still in there is just bizarre as it its the most elitist and dated class.

FYI, the Woman's match racing was a total surprise. I was totally captivated in it.
Is it really true they have bumped that also?

Without starting a riot, I think the Moth and Formula would be really interesting amendments?

Star and Elliot 6 ? are now gone.

Men's Kiteboarding
Women's Kiteboarding
Men's One Person Dinghy – Laser
Women's One Person Dinghy – Laser Radial
Men's One Person Dinghy (heavy) – Finn
Men's Two Person Dinghy – 470
Women's Two Person Dinghy – 470
Men's Skiff – 49er
Women's Skiff – 49er FX
Mixed Two Person Multihull – Nacra 17

waveslave said...


A poignant moment perhaps. ^^^

London 2012 medal ceremony.

Poledancers on the Olympic podium for the last time ...

with the baggers in the background having a blast and frothing about Rio.

You put the "perhaps" in the wrong place. Should be

Poledancers on the Olympic podium for the last time ...perhaps

It is not done and dusted yet, I'd like to see both in Rio

did anyone hear HG Nelsons description of why he wanted the windsurfing kept in the olympics,
sort of supporting the sport but bagging it at the same time.

Gents, we've all been sold a bill of goods. We're all busy self-flagellating about how sailing needs to be more spectacular, more accessible, more hip etc etc. But there's no evidence these things have anything to do with success as an Olympic sport.

Let's start with this idea that Olympic sports have to be visually interesting, let alone spectacular. Look at the TV stats - absolutely no correlation between spectacle and audience numbers.

Not to have another bash at the much-maligned swimmers, but seriously - there's literally nothing to watch but some churned up water, and they get sky-high audience numbers (even without the broadcasters holding everyone to ransom). Equestrian - well, the horses look nice, but even the commentators sound bored after a while. Again, sky-high audience numbers. Shooting - etc etc.

As for the notion that sailing suffers from an incomprehensible competition format - again, it's bollocks. Short of someone falling off the apparatus, does anyone in audience-land have any idea of what's actually happening in gymnastics? We just get told at the end who won. And - you guessed it - it gets sky-high audience numbers.

I could go on. Olympic sports have to represent the grassroots? Nonsense. How many polevaulters do you know? Greco-Roman wrestlers? No, me neither.

I don't know what the problem is. For some reason windsurfing has been stuffed around with from day one. But I do know what the problem isn't - it isn't any of these red herrings about spectacle and format.

JBFletch said...
Kiting appeals to the masses and random bob and granny doris will be captivated by the kite thing on TV, even tho it is boring as bat**** to watch. (for more wind minded people)

Gotta agree here.
What windsurfer hasn't been asked by same granny and people in the street "have you tried that kiting thing, it's so colourful".

JBFletch said...
best thing you guys can do is keep your local race scene alive and keep juniors coming through.

Agreed there too. Except very, very few people pass on their passion anymore.

Mark _australia said...

king of the point said...



This kiting inclusion is
Like, dropping the SURFING WORLD TOUR for say a BODY BOARDING only tour.

Nar - like replacing it with SUP'ing only cos it is newer

Don't worry, it's coming.......2020...... bound to be in there

evlPanda said...

Brett Morris said...
Without starting a riot, I think the Moth and Formula would be really interesting amendments?

Absolutely! Add in the 18 footers and c-class cats and people would watch it because it would be more watchable.

I've heard we spent $10,000,000 per medal this olympics. Don't tell me a c-class cat is too expensive. It can't be too much more than one of those equestrian beasts.

More speed does not equal more viewers. The 49er was added and the Tornado was modified to increase the speed of the Olympic boats, but ratings have not skyrocketed.

The C Class cats can't get enough sponsorship to run any regular events. They have been trying to get spectacular televised boat racing up for decades, in cats and skiffs, and have been failing since about 1977. The Extreme Sailing Series is marginal (AIUI) and the earlier examples (Formula 40, various French series, Ultimate YRS) all died.

I think that Fred Eaton, who won the last major C Class event, is the heir to a major Canadian supermarket fortune. He won from the heir to a US oil fortune. These are not practical boats for practical owners.

Experience with classes like the Europe indicates that Olympic efforts can increase the cost of components by a factor of up to 100 times. In 2000, the Brits bought a ONE TONNE block of alloy and machined it down to a mandril some 5m long and about 50mm round, just to make a mast for an 11' Europe. The exercise cost something like 20,000 pounds, for one mast for a boat slower than a Laser.

So if we look at a class where being competitive already costs hundreds of thousands, and then add the vast cost increase that comes with Olympic selection, we are going to find that only about four countries could actually compete. And all for a boat that can't even generate enough media to allow any regular racing.

There is a reason that almost all pro multi classes have now gone one design!

The 18s are similar. In the late '80s Brownie spent about $40,000 (in today's terms) just tank testing the stern of Entrad. A year's sponsorship would buy a nice house.

The TV ratings could not support that sort of expenditure and at one stage there were only 5 18 Foot Skiffs left sailing in Sydney. Even Brownie, who was the #1 sailor and #1 fund raiser of the time and an advocate for development designs, now says that the model had actually failed. The 18s then went one design, which reduced costs, but still the Grand Prix televised racing could not support a pro racing scene.

"Make it faster and they will watch" has proven to be a failed motto, time and time again.

Mark _australia said...

king of the point said...



This kiting inclusion is
Like, dropping the SURFING WORLD TOUR for say a BODY BOARDING only tour.

Nar - like replacing it with SUP'ing only cos it is newer

God Im going to be sick, stop it you two!!

I just hope surfing NEVER makes it in, what a joke

@ Chris249 the dingy classes were as boring as batsh!t tbh. They really need to simlify these classes and cut a few back imo.

windsufering said...

boring as bat **** to the uneducated !

I went to school

But what about the people who arnt into sailing, are you only interested in sailors watching? Alot of people who watch swimming (also fecking boring) cant, wont swim but will dribble on how good/bad the races were.

At least windsurfing looks great on TV compared to dingy racing or kitesurfing imo.

Hobie cat racing would look much better then dingy racing.

king of the point said...

Really diappointing the media just dont get it(windsurfing) ,,,,Meatime 2 weeks later the swimmers had basically failed and the sailors were winning GOLD and the attention swung to sailing and the coverage started. and
How good was it (fken unreal ), far better than watching people swimming up and down a black line thats for sore.

This kiting inclusion is
Like, dropping the SURFING WORLD TOUR for say a BODY BOARDING only tour.

Whats even funnyer is 99 % of kites must know Triangle racing a kite around a course, at the olympics, can only show case just how pathetic kiting really is to the world.

You think if it was to be show cased or in the olympics they show boosting 200 feet.. fly over a groyne /pires and spectators with spears.

guess who


BBHHaaaa haaa haaaa ssissiiiissss haaahaahaaah

Doggie, the fact that something is boring to you (or me) or people we know is meaningless when it comes to working out what MOST people want to watch.

Here's the highest-ranking sports, in terms of viewer numbers per minute of broadcast time, from the Beijing Games (data courtesy of the IOC);

Athletics 65 mill spectators each minute
Swimming 58.8 mill spectators each minute
Artistic gymnastics 53.3
Diving 43.5
Trampolining 41.6
Rowing 40.8
Table tennis 40.8
Volleyball 38.5
Track cycling 32.8
Sprint (flat water) kayak/canoe –32.4
Rhythmic gymnastics 30.4
Shooting 28
Sync Swimming 25.7
Sailing 24.5
Road cycling 23.8
Beach volleyball 23.6
BMX 23.2
Slalom (whitewater) canoe – 22.3
Triathlon 19.4
Water polo 17.4
MTB 16.4

So unspectacular sports like volleyball and swimming rate highly. "Boring" flatwater kayaking and rowing rates higher than people bouncing down rapids in kayaks. Synchronised swimming (often laughed at) rates higher than the beach volleyball that some guys drool over. Table tennis outrates mountain biking and BMX. So fast sports don't get more viewers.

Secondly, even events that attract high ratings can attract few participants. A classic case is car racing, which gets good ratings but very few participants compared to activities like fishing, walking, camping, etc. This is something that has been proven over and over again by studies performed by bodies like the Aust Bureau of Stats, Sweeney Associates, and unis here and overseas.

On sailing forums, by the way, many people have been commenting that they were surprised to find that the slower boats (Finns, Lasers, 470s) were a lot more fun to watch than the 49ers, because the racing was much closer.

doggie said...

Think about how much each sport got air time then go back to that list.

Looking at Chris' list - what is worth watching.....?

Athletics 65 mill spectators each minute
Swimming 58.8 mill spectators each minute
Artistic gymnastics 53.3
Diving 43.5
Trampolining 41.6
Rowing 40.8
Table tennis 40.8
Volleyball 38.5
Track cycling 32.8
Sprint (flat water) kayak/canoe –32.4
Rhythmic gymnastics 30.4
Shooting 28
Sync Swimming 25.7
Sailing 24.5
Road cycling 23.8
Beach volleyball 23.6
BMX 23.2
Slalom (whitewater) canoe – 22.3
Triathlon 19.4
Water polo 17.4
MTB 16.4

Chris 249 said...

Te Hau said...

Waveslave reckons w/surfing is obsolete.
I wonder how he views the various dinghy classes at the Olympics?
It amazes me that ISAF would happily drop a 'modern' sport in favour of all of those dreary dinghy classes, but then tradition seems to be well entrenched in yachting.
Kiting and W/surf are trendy young sports, have them both and dump a dinghy.

The boats are better than the boards at attracting racers and attracting sailors. If we stop knocking them and started learning from them, maybe we wouldn't be fighting for one spot at the Games.

I totally agree with you on that!

I dunno what its like in the east but in WA the way into windsurfing is to perhaps hire a board and maybe get a few lessons then teach yourself.

I can tell you from sailing a dinghy class that what theyve got that windsurfing doesnt, is a club to support a racing scene. The club provides race support (starting/finishing, course setup, rescue) training by accredited coaches, class publicity and a place to socialize with like minded people.

They also tend to have resources for people to have a go (they generally have club owned sailing dinghies) and provide a connection between the class associations and the general public. when I started windsurfing I couldn't have told you whether or not there was a windsurfing association in WA.

Not to take away from what windsurfing WA does (they organise a number of great regular racing events) but there's no week to week racing to speak of. there's the wed night slalom at peli point for sure when the winds on, but theres no weekend racing scene. That's what a club offers. The class association definitely has to interact with the club but all the regular race setup is organised by the club.

I think windsurfing would definitely gain more by getting into the clubs, It's well and truly cheaper to get windsurfing kit than spend thousands on a sailing dinghy straight up. I think there's many things that make windsurfing much more attractive to some one who wants to get into sailing than the dinghy classes.

lot of interesting stuff....I watched the match racing until 2am also...couldn't force myself away from the action...Surprised myself.