swoosh we are essentially talking about the same thing- if you care to go back through anything I wrote and disprove it or convince me otherwise then i'll listen. I never once said my way is best. If you notice there are all the slalom sailors saying neutral, all the wave/freestylers facing slightly front hand (again what happens when the draft typically moves back in a wavesail?).

No one is favouring back hand but again stance makes a big change also- you can set your lines so that it has backhand pressure- then swing forward and around the front foot and the pressure goes neutral (probably the most harness commited stance you can get).

Back to the original post- how can cribby's setup be exact when sail designers set the draft for different points with different sails? 1/3 is just an average but it is then to be fine tuned TO PERSONAL TASTE.

Besides what are you wavesailors/freestylers even doing using harness lines anyway [}:)]

yer mate I know, I have tried his setup on race sails- couldnt stand it- again look at the gear cribby is using for the setup.

Wavesails I never found so important- but then i'm not really focused on sailing long time in the harness then- focus more on jumping and crashing

Cribby is probably trying to stop the spinout epidemic- sailors new to the sport tend to sail a bit more back hand biased, they sheet in, put pressure through back foot and spinout.

I watched that vid of barn- not much in harness action goin on there.

Once again- draft moves more in wave and freeride sails so you should place lines that little bit further back. If you want to call it making the most of the sail in the gust then so be it. Further alot of wave and freestyle sailors are in the harness to get back upwind on which point of sail the pressure is further back in the sail. Tho I'm a bit like mark aus (I think it was) and like to open a wavesail up a bit for going upwind.

oh and if what good sailor says goes, i'll take your barn and raise it an antoine whom favours a little bit of back hand pressure so we're all wrong

But should we setup like pros? We are not pros.

Meh, I just place them where it looks like the draft in the sail should be on land, then fine-tune on water until they are balanced for the median wind speed.

Personal preference may see you adjust otherwise. If you are learning to get in the straps you may want to have them slightly forward (1cm), if you are looking at clocking a max GPS speed you may want to have them slightly back to make the most out of the gusts.

I dunno, feel free to correct me.

i think the majority of the windsurfing communities idea of 'balanced lines' are in fact still to far forward. It is possible to sail no hands on a windsurfer, and it gets easier the FURTHER forward the lines get, it makes sailing with bad technique manageable. but this is not fast or efficient.

hence the scientific term "sailing like a girl" which is the same as other scientifically valid terms such as "throwing like a girl" and "running like a girl".. nothing to be ashamed of but there is room for improvement.

I know 1st hand from working in the instruction/rental industry that 90% of the public sail with their lines way to far forward. Every time I jump on someones Gear i have to move the lines back!

And i would bet good money that antoine would move the lines back as well.

Cribby is right, Its worth listening to advice from professional instructors, and hes the best instructor Ive seen. and he changes thru the nose because hes the best. (one of his billionaire clients turned up in a power yacht for some intuition, so most can afford it.)






this is what Im talking about, Its the first photo i found on gaastra.com.. finn is less skilled than antoine but it must be noted that these guys are sailing way more powered that the average joe.

so if antoine says back hand pressure he is a freak anyway with arms like Godzilla and shouldn't be listened to for advice.

yes im not using my harness in the video, but i am flying going into those move and thats all down to stance and setup.. the faster u go into move the fast you come out.

and another thing, everyones harness lines are to short

Now I'm more confused than ever.
There is never any one right way, but
for those of you who do not use the 1/3 rule, how do you decide where to put the harness lines?
Do you
a) stand the sail up on the beach and feel where it seems balanced,
b) whack them anywhere and go for a sail and then adjust,
c) look for where the max draft is and put them there
d) something completely different?

swoosh said...


Maybe I should have said, if you want to be able to sail like this:

listen to barn.

I would LOVE to be able to sail like that.
The sad fact is it wouldn't matter where I put my harness lines that just ain't gonna happen!

i will speak to the pros about harness lines and see what possi they like

Gestalt said...

i think one of the important things here is how far apart you set your lines.

the closer together they are the more back they go and the more having slight front hand pressure feels good.

setting your lines far apart tends to disguise the best place to set the lines and makes back hand pressure feel better.

I was setting mine close together but then bought a set of 28inch lines which feel a bit long so now they are further apart to soak up some of the length..it probably helps with gusty conditions too..?

I agree with barn about line length.

Gestie- I dunno, I set my wavesails with lines together and my racesails pretty much identical spacing to what finian has there (about 1 hand spacing apart). 28 lines should be perfect for you when placed together, it's just TOW getting used to longer lines and adjusting stance to make use of longer lines.

I sail no hands all the time, it promotes trim balance and correct stance. Wouldnt say it makes me slow.

I agree with what you are saying Barn about peoples lines being too far forward, but I was never talking about that. Balanced lines are balanced, not so you have back hand pressure.

Windxtasy start with 1/3 rule then move lines back if backhand pressure and forward if front hand. The closer you have your lines the more rotational the sail becomes so you need to balance that also.

Aside from that enough has been said from me

Windxtasy said...

swoosh said...


Maybe I should have said, if you want to be able to sail like this:
...
listen to barn.

I would LOVE to be able to sail like that.
The sad fact is it wouldn't matter where I put my harness lines that just ain't gonna happen!

That's because you sail like a girl

NotWal said...

Windxtasy said...

swoosh said...


Maybe I should have said, if you want to be able to sail like this:
...
listen to barn.

I would LOVE to be able to sail like that.
The sad fact is it wouldn't matter where I put my harness lines that just ain't gonna happen!

That's because you sail like a girl

and I always will...

funny about that.

yabadabadoo said...

ok barn im on your side to some extent. Nearly always i get on someone elses kit who is an intermediate or more occasional level sailor the lines are too far forward . They nearly always need moving back.

However what about this?

on a beam reach burning along at 20 knots with 20 knots wind blowing perfectly set up and trimmed.

apparent wind is thus 45 degrees from bow.

there is a gust rise of 10 knots taking the true wind to 30 knots,
if nothing else changes then the apparent wind swings aft to 56 degrees from the bow.

Thus you should be sheeting out to stay properly trimmed, sheeting back in again as you accelerate and possibly sheeting in harder again as you go faster and the gust dies away(thus apparent swings forward of 45 degrees). Practically we do all this anyway, its the very essence of windsurfing. you do it a lot- and i bet you sail with lines close together to. Lines close together are good because it makes it really easy to make all these adjustments continuously



Or you can stay sheeted in and let the rig bend and absorb the gust that way, this may or may not be better but will depend on the rig, the stiffness of the mast, your bodyweight etc.

or its a combination of all these things.

whats sailing like this do for all the harness line theories?

Timmaaayy!!!