jh2703 said...

Barn,

You have so much faith in science, but what does humanity have left when science fails us?

when you say "science" what do you mean here?

Do you mean having a hypothesis, testing it and seeing what happens, forming a theory, telling everyone about it in a way that means they can repeat what you've done and then everyone trying to disprove the theory?

Or do you mean something else?

kato maybe he could answer

I object!

To suppose us windsurfers have the ability to reason, even if we don't wear silly shorts outside our wetsuits, is taking things too far.

I would like to see an objective test of this plastic thingy against a new expensive waveboard with a forest of fins.

Science be damned. Which would improve our waveriding more?

1: Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.
2: What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence


I don't trust TT, hopefully they drag along a qualified observer... But if today tonight proves these things work in a controlled scientific double blind trial... The inventors will clean sweep the nobel prize for every field in science for the next 20 years, they will have just discovered an unknown force and they will falsified the enlightenment, and single handily shattered the discoveries of Einstein, Newton, Craig Ventor and Dawkins.



F***king Magnets, how do they work?

Dont get me wrong, I fully expect that the bracelet will be debunked on the episode, if not I will eat my head.

Its more for the morons that believe in this stuff, i mean if its on TV it must be true right?

And it says 'made in China' on the back!

jermaldan said...

Did any one watch the Today Tonight thing yesterday at 6pm?

Missed it. What was their conclusion?

It was a fairly balanced report from what I heard

[no I didn't actually see it]

A full list of Choice shonkyness
http://www.choice.com.au/Reviews-and-Tests/Money/Shopping-and-Legal/Shopping/The-2010-Shonky-Awards/page/The-shonkiest-products.aspx

But here's the run down

Power Balance

With some reluctance, we highlight the inherent shonkiness of the Power Balance bracelet - reluctance, because when Australian Skeptics demonstrated on Today Tonight that it patently didn't do anything, subsequent sales skyrocketed: apparently any publicity is good publicity after all.

The Power Balance band is basically a rubber band bracelet with a plastic hologram in it. Sorry - a "surgical grade silicone wristband" embedded with a hologram "based on the idea of optimizing the body's natural energy flow, similar to concepts behind many Eastern philosophies. The hologram is designed to respond to the natural energy field of the body. The Mylar material at the core has been treated with energy waves at specific frequencies." etc, etc. All this, and backed by a money-back guarantee.

But seriously: "surgical", "specific frequencies", "Mylar", "Eastern philosophies". What's not to believe?

We CHOICE sceptics did our own testing under controlled laboratory conditions - after all, you can't believe everything you see on TV - and verified the Skeptics' findings. The money-back guarantee, however, did work. The only power this bracelet seems to have, placebo effect notwithstanding, is in tipping its distributor's bank balance well and truly into the black - they're reportedly raking it in. So, if a fool and his money are soon parted, there are apparently plenty of fools out there - and they're all conveniently identified with a rubber band bracelet. If you see one, offer to sell them a bridge.

Placebo effect is a measure of what was going to happen anyway, or in the case of medical trials, a way of blinding the subject to whether they are receiving an active drug or not.
It is not an measure of an effect of mental manipulation.

The yin/yang symbol is about blokes having a bit of girl in them and girls having a bit of bloke.
It has nothing to do with not falling off a board. It does however prove that people are bloody gullible.

I have tried to sell every twat I have seen wearing a power band a bridge, but my delivery must not be as slick, as so far, no takers.

sideskirt said...

It depends, how much one can be influenced by placebo effect. If you believe it will give some level of improvement in balance, it is just like most alternative medicine methods...

BRIDGE FOR SALE - POA

Please pm me for details. Bargain Price. Low k's.

sideskirt said...

Well isn't a placebo drug for example a candy instead of antibiotic, a mental manipulator?

Imo ppl have a lot of hidden skills or self regenerating abilities, we do not know what the rast 3/4 of our brain is capable of, which these kind of manipulators incurage.
If you believe something it can induce your abilities, for example powerbalance can make a believer improve his/her balance to a certain point which his/her body is capable of, but in his/her conciousness he/she thinks he/she has less balance.
Another case bioenergetics, a sceptic will see they are full of crap and they won't help you getting over some heavy disease, but someone who is strugling and grabing every branch that can hold this person for a bit longer before they fall can actually get some use from these quacks(to some people strong religion is a natural drug).
I believe that many unexplainabla, magical if you want, curing of sick people is due to every human's capability of self regenerating, which cannot be manipulated conciously.

I as a sceptic think, this is total bullcrap, but someone can actually get use of it (my coworker wears it all the time, we have some laughs about it from time to time).

And plus 1 to the "inventor" for making some extra $$ from his old tires. Whereever there are fools, you can sell foolish things and I mean loads.

Sorry for phylosophical point of view.

I'm all for placebos, a healthy diet or a beer makes windsurfing a cakewalk(?), but powerbands shouldn't work as a placebo, nobody in Australia should be fooled by this, It's simple high school physics... and placebos can't work if we know its a placebo.. (unfortunately, I read doctors are now required to label placebos as such, making the whole process redundant)


It may help people overcome their mental hurdles, but as I ranted earlier, believing this wooo quakery comes at great expense to our intellectual integrity.. How are we supposed to explain the truth to Africans villagers who murder local 'witches' or rape babies to cure themselves of AIDS, If we can so easily convince ourselves bits of rubber can unlock the laws of physics? Humanity is being held back superstitions and irrationality... Galileo would not be impressed.

this is my philosophical view!

powerbands are the equivalent of someone selling millions of dowsing sticks to desperate farmers in drought.. criminals! a million hexes on them all!!

To repeat, a placebo is not a mental manipulator.
In a double blind trial, you have 2 groups.
A treatment group and a control group.
"Double blind" means that neither the subject or the observer knows which group anyone is in.
This is to avoid reporting bias and observer bias.
Everyone is given a pill. The control group pill is inactive or placebo. Stuff will still happen to that group. It's called natural history or "what was going to happen anyway", thus giving rise to the idea of "placebo effect".
If you give someone a placebo and tell them it is real, and they report dramatic effects, you are seeing reporting bias, not some mystical effect.

"Testimonials" OTOH, are nothing more than people validating their own judgement.

CROWEMAN said...

jermaldan said...

BRIDGE FOR SALE - POA

Please pm me for details. Bargain Price. Low k's.

I'll trade you a Bayside parking permit

You back already?

FormulaNova said...

jp747 said...

Hey what about the fake one's circulating up here? they swear on it too

How would you know its a fake? Is it the one that does work? or does it make you lose your balance?

Well..if they sold it for .50cents Oz dollars it would be

www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/power-balance-bracelets-exposed-as-a-sham-20101223-195u7.html