jbshack said...
Cottesloe will be even safer now. State Government just announced it is spending ANOTHER $300000.00 to build a specific shark tower[}:)]

More tax payers money well spent

Just happens to be Colin barnets local beach as well

62mac said...
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/

Whoa that was interesting to see the huge amount of people who have been attacked in NSW & QLD. We consider WA to be the shark hot spot in Oz coz we have the highest amount of fatalities of 5 in that 10 month period. Its easy to see where researchers get their point of view of increased numbers in the water attributing to the number of attacks based on state by state data.

However personally I don't think that standpoint holds true with WA. Outside of Perth I don't think there are really heaps more people surfing places which mightt otherwise go unsurfed that day & everywhere there has been a WA surfing related attack. It has been a spot that has had people surfing it on a regular basis.

Researches or as I see them...people regurgitating the same old BS they've read or credited from someone elses BS...fail to take simple facts I mentioned above into account. They constantly come out with these statistical quotes like the bloke at the end of this ACA story...you have a 1 in 300,000 chance of being attacked by a shark...what, who me or my wife. I'm in the water at least 4 times a week, my wife not so often lol & not 2-3.5 hours at the back of some reefbreak.

They calculate this statistical BS based upon the population of Australia & the number of attacks for some unspecified amount of time...When if you were to determine the number of people who regularly frequent the beach & use that figure to make the same calculation using what I would say is a very high number of attacks in NSW & QLD. You would not get 1/300,000.

I'm tired of hearing people like that guy at the end of this story downplaying the seriousness of this issue & the gullible people who fall for their BS.

jbshack said...

bakesy said...
should have just red thumbed it eh soley? But really enjoy the discussion and input side of this forum and can't abide those that really think we should cull or those that don't get that we are witnessing major changes to the ecosystem. I trust science and those that study the ocean to help us all work through this and to perhaps make our coastline a bit safer.

I know you don't like me to reply to your posts as my english skills aren't up to your standard but i agree most of your post.

But the problem is the scientists are saying shark numbers are lower then ever. They are also saying there is a complete imbalance in our eco system as well but that the answer isn't to kill more sharks. I agree with both of those ideals and if you agree with the scientists you'd agree with me.

Comercial fisherman who have something to gain from re starting commercial fishing for sharks have a agenda, but they say there are more sharks then ever. I cant find any scientists who say they agree with culling but i do often read on here about remarks made about the so called scientists, or the comments made to Suba who is at this moment studying sharks, claiming he and his science is wet behind the ear. So what scientists do we listen to? Do we google the online experts? That was my point.

As for my point about the government and spending, well no one seems to care that they are throwing thousands, no millions of dollars at this and doing absolutely nothing. I have been in talks with another interesting party lately (he confirmed my ideas to me) and to say the depth of miss handling of this problem by our state government is a joke is a understatement of biblical pre portions. Soon a few people (I hope) will be left with massive amounts of trouble. But only if the public can let go of the emotional side of the argument and look more at the facts and risks

Sorry i did type this and my last posts on a i phone so it could be worse than normal But we cant all be school teachers[}:)]

The thing is JB, although I applaud Suba and his youthful enthusiasm, and the end of the day he is a uni student. Nothing wrong with that (I was one once), however when I think back to my time at university my aspirations massively outweighed my abilities. It's taken me 15 years of experience to work out how little I knew when I was at uni, and more to the point how little I know now. Scientists can be an unpractical bunch, and rarely are able to turn theory into application (thats an engineer ;-) ha ha). I would hesitate to blindly follow some so called expert who sits in his office theorizing (and no I am not talking about Suba, more about his lecturers and academics who call themselves experts). There is clearly more whites out there and the risk has increased of attack in WA). If you chose to believe scientists, then you will know that a recent research paper confirmed this. Peace everyone.(and no offence Suba I don't know you so I can only really comment on my own experience at university).

Can't really be bothered getting into this too thoroughly, but you guys should really put my study and work experience with sharks aside in these arguments. Everyone else brings up my experience (or lack of in some peoples eyes) far more than I do.

Regardless of whether I was pursuing a career in marine research and conservation, I would have the exact same opinion.

I say all these things as someone who goes in the water, not as an arm chair scientist confined to his office and books. I'd argue the fact that I am probably in the water than most of you guys. That's not a bragging right, but it's just likely given the position I am in at the moment.

In saying that, I am just as likely or unlikely to be attacked as any of you guys, if not more. I was there when the Wedge incident happened. I was meters from that Tiger Shark yesterday according to the lifesaver on the jetski that came out to me. I've been in the water with White Sharks, admittedly, against my wishes.

Put aside the fact that I go to university and am involved in research. It's irrelevant to how I feel on the topic.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but growing up in WA I was always aware of the potential risk from sharks when I went in the water, even as a little nipper and grom. I've always just considered it a fact of life if you're going to be an ocean user and a salty dog. I understand peoples concerns and apprehension, but I don't think anyone can defend the total histeria and overreaction of some people, driven by the media.

Yesterday with the Tiger Shark(s) was a prime example. Ch10 claimed to have spotted the shark at Trigg first and informed the SLA....bull5hit, that's not how it happened. They also claimed we were terrorised by the shark...also bull5hit, almost no one left the water even after the SLA guy on the jetski informed us of the situation. No one really cared, but boy did the media talk it up.

I was in the water not far from where the chopper came down below 20m a the crewman waved us out of the water, the guys on jet skis were informing us of the 3m tiger but there was no real push for anyone to get out NOW!!
I like the chopper and the ski and the fisheries boat being there as it lets you know where the shark is!!! When it turns away they all follow and we re enter the water

Was interesting to follow the news choppers when the area we surfed was cleared they flew up to a populated area to film all the "surfers refusing to leave the water" when the shark clearly was heading in the opposite direction

Was good surf too on Saturday , shizen from 6-8 ish then good from 8-10 am when spaghetti arms took over.....Bali tomorrow .....yehaaaaa dua bintang besar dingin sekali terima Kasi

Bin tang only for wifey n me always. Poor kid passed on I hear RIP

Slater like I was Suba!!!
Where u with a mate on a board and another on a sponge, far nth scabs far sth trigg?

At the risk of hijacking the thread

Check out the photo of Nusa Dua today on Magic Seaweed

@Suba...True I surfed with Fiona from the North Beach facility a couple of times back in 2003 when she was up to do some crayfish study where I used to live (can't say apparently its secret lol)...the thing is I personally think when it comes to the crunch there is some pressure on staff from management to go with the "requires more research" answer rather than admitting their are more sharks & protection is no longer required. Like some unwritten policies & procedures in the event of (sharks) to ensure ongoing funding, thus ensuring ongoing employment...facts are, people are seeing more great whites...if they were endangered, if they were low in numbers. We would not be seeing them so often & this is worldwide. Not just local...but I honestly think this outlook on ensuring ongoing financial backing for research is the encumberment to effective change. I'm not against research, just backing for great white protection.

Your probably right, a lot of sightings are probably being attributed as being great whites when some are probably other species...& of course I'm not quite right when I say other marine life are not protected. A lot of fish are these days with restrictions being put on the amount you are allowed to catch or the minimum size...I would be very happy with the protection of great whites removed, but a minimum size restriction on what your allowed to keep. I'm thinking about 2.9m

I have thought about getting into these discussions of yours for a while but have withheld...I feel for you boys out west and the last yrs events have been dreadful....but from my professional opinion its not too far out of the ordinary given the long term stats.....I have spent the last 15 yrs playing around with randomness, uncertainity and probability after studying it for 7 years before that.....especially with regard to low frequency high concentration events. I teach people like Suba whilst also working in the real world with a bunch of other scientists and engineers. We also do a lot of work in the risk perception space....over east where I reside we have had lots of recent shark issues in the news...no notable change in behaviour from my observations and far less hysteria as well. The media loves to beat this sort of stuff up......they love these sort of stories.....and if anyone seriously thinks that shows like ACA are actually news related then they should take a good look at themselves

A lot of our work over the last 7 or 8 years has looked at how changes can be explained by societal impacts like wealth, inflation and population.....I would love to know if anyone has really looked into the population argument as a few of you have alerted to on this topic. Clearly there are more people using the beach than 50 years ago - we also know the general population has increased, we know water users have increased, we know the number of water sports have increased, we know previously undesirable parts of the coast are now holiday hotspots and we know that surfing has contributed massively to this coastal change. Think Raglan, Byron, Nossa, Goldie, Crescent Head, Yamba, Marg River etc the list is endless.

So I would think that it would be plausible to investigate if the massive increase in the number of man (person) hours in the water explains this increase in recent times.......does anyone know if any study has been done like this? If so please post a link to it. There has also been some great work done on how the reporting of events like this have increased with access to communication and technology - maybe it could be argued that there were a lot more incidents previously but they were never reported..............

My personal view on sharks is that they scare the crap out of me and I try not to think about them. I also do not wish to see them harmed and believe that I am in their zone but I am happy to take the risk on. I surf at first light (hate crowds) as often as I can and have no issue paddling out when its still practically dark - even though this is not the wisest of choices . I often surf the reefs around home that are a good 20 minute paddle from the beach. I have been to Cactus several times and have spent 3 of my last 4 holidays over west in Gracetown. I have never seen a shark whilst I am in the lineup and will probably crap myself when I do.

Ted, sounds like you'd love the book I'm currently reading. Just a bit of light reading before bed.


Would love to hear more about your work and studies.



Also, PaddlePig, the beaches will never be totally safe, sharks or not. Fact of life.

As for the concerns for your son, well, I can't really get into that because I don't have children.

That was a good read Ted thanks. What are your thoughts on the cage diving ?

^^^Roger that Ted

PaddlePig said...
No worries mate. I think your arguements are valid and well written too, even though we disagree. Good stuff.

Bakesy, was that AI talking about his first wave at the pier?

thommo 000 said...
That was a good read Ted thanks. What are your thoughts on the cage diving ?

wouldnt have minded having a cage around me free diving 10mt for my anchor early this morning very dark and gloomy.epic waves though