I'll just answer Laceys question from the original post... and then some...

2+ years ago I wasn't happy with what the Name Brands had to offer, in my eyes boards were too heavy, too big and too expensive.
So I looked at customs and nothing really stood out. Rod's Surf Shapes were definitely different but I didn't think they would quite suit
what I was after.

So I had a go at shaping myself. I had a long history in sailboarding and had worked closely with local shapers and thought I'd do alright
and lucky enough my first board went amazing. The finish was very rough but it worked. Anyway, that shape evolved 3 times and each
board did something different/better.

The problem with customs IMO is you are never happy for long and always want something better. Just like Lacey going through board
after board trying to build the perfect board. The other thing is the quality of workmanship is very high but the overall strength doesn't
quite match that of "some" of the name brands. I've seen this with most of the customs floating around Vicco.

I'm now on production boards again as I believe they got a kick up the bside and are now pushing the limits with development. The fight
to gain market share amongst the big guys is enough for them to be taking R&D seriously.

Anyway, so to wrap it up...for me... as long as the name brands are building quality high performance boards that compare to customs,
the name brands strength of build, warranty, back up service and re-sale value will be enough to keep me coming back and updating.

Th0m0 said...

For me information is king. I love it when the industry people get on here and talk about their products. Usually there happy to give info on products that they don't even sell.
The only custom sup I have bought (out of about 10-12) was from Rod Hocker. He used to get on here and give his opinion and you got a sense of where he was heading and why, in both design and production. Then you could decide if you were happy with that. I've bought boards from Jacko and Ang because I get an idea of how they compare to other boards from reviews and comparisons they do. Same with Scotty from Greenline and Courts with JL.
Dale once told me he diidn't think it was right for him to get on here and talk about his boards but I bet his orders would go up if he did. I don't look at it as pimping, it's information and I can choose to take it on board or not. I can ask questions and get answers without having to make an appointment.
If I bought another custom, it would probably be from DTM because he posts on here, gives his opinion and backs them with reasons.
Personally, I don't care if a board is local or not, i'm just looking for the right board for me at the time.

Good post ThOmO! I like what you're saying here.

If I was to go custom it would be Laguna Bay so I can surf like Dogman, or DTM cos Dan is a good bloke and
Camo has one here in Vic and it looks great. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet.

Bnaccas said...

I'll just answer Laceys question from the original post... and then some...

2+ years ago I wasn't happy with what the Name Brands had to offer, in my eyes boards were too heavy, too big and too expensive.
So I looked at customs and nothing really stood out. Rod's Surf Shapes were definitely different but I didn't think they would quite suit
what I was after.

So I had a go at shaping myself. I had a long history in sailboarding and had worked closely with local shapers and thought I'd do alright
and lucky enough my first board went amazing. The finish was very rough but it worked. Anyway, that shape evolved 3 times and each
board did something different/better.

The problem with customs IMO is you are never happy for long and always want something better. Just like Lacey going through board
after board trying to build the perfect board. The other thing is the quality of workmanship is very high but the overall strength doesn't
quite match that of "some" of the name brands. I've seen this with most of the customs floating around Vicco.

I'm now on production boards again as I believe they got a kick up the bside and are now pushing the limits with development. The fight
to gain market share amongst the big guys is enough for them to be taking R&D seriously.

Anyway, so to wrap it up...for me... as long as the name brands are building quality high performance boards that compare to customs,
the name brands strength of build, warranty, back up service and re-sale value will be enough to keep me coming back and updating.

i would like to comment here, generally if you are after a custom, you after a light weight performance board. these board are going to be put into places on a wave most other boards can't go. so along with being a lightweight construction like their shortboard cousins they are going to be subject to breakages etc purely on the basis of where they are going to be put in a wave

however if you said to your shaper i don't mind if my board the same weight as the production models, they would be just as durable as most production boards imo.

its not fair to compare a hi performance lite weight weight board with a heavy production board.

its the same thing with shortboards- you take the punt with lightweight, light glass jobs
cheers
ps i can't get to sleep

chrispychru said...

I WOULD LOVE TO BUY AUSSIE but what shop can i go into and buy a board.
I cant wait for the day that i can walk into a shop and buy a aussie sup,that will make me smile.

Look I don't know where you live but I'm in Byron bay.

So I can go to Maddog and smile because they do their own boards and sell them in their shop.
If I want to take my car I drive 20km south to lennox , go to All above Boards and smile again because they do their own boards and sell them in their shop as well...

both of them will demo their boards and go and paddle with you and give you free tips...and by the way they sell imported boards as well and will still go and paddle with you if you are interested.

So you don't have to wait it's already happening

hey im not that far from byron so thanks for that. Is it only Byron you can demo or are there other places that do it as well? Advertise people and let simple people like me know that is possible.

rahams said...

i was going to say what i thought. thanks mate

Al Hunter said...

chrispychru said...

I WOULD LOVE TO BUY AUSSIE but what shop can i go into and buy a board.
I cant wait for the day that i can walk into a shop and buy a aussie sup,that will make me smile.

Look I don't know where you live but I'm in Byron bay.

So I can go to Maddog and smile because they do their own boards and sell them in their shop.
If I want to take my car I drive 20km south to lennox , go to All above Boards and smile again because they do their own boards and sell them in their shop as well...

both of them will demo their boards and go and paddle with you and give you free tips...and by the way they sell imported boards as well and will still go and paddle with you if you are interested.

So you don't have to wait it's already happening

Al Hunter said...

aus301 said...



As a long time Windsurfer I am comfortable buying pop-outs. . Given that I am buying from brands I know and trust through the windsurf relationship I am usually always comfortable that my new board will be well constructed, and a good design - even if it may be 6 to 12 months old by virtue of being a pop out. and I can be comfortable that demo I rode is exactly the same as the new board I just picked up.

I am quite interested with designs and if I try a board that I like....i'll measure it, so maybe it will allow me to understand what makes it feel good.
So if you think the board you are ordering will be the same as the demo board you tried you should think twice....
The fact is most of the imported boards are not moulded boards but just handshape abroad. Wich is why you can see advertising as "handshape, designed in Australia..."
And you can expect a some significant differences . (same for local shapers...)
If we are talking racing boards, for a very popular 14 from a very repectable brand I checked 3 boards, got 3 different rockers at the back within a 2cm range!! which is in theory quite significant.(we are talking + or -20% of the original value!!)
Even the lenght is often different. Everybody realised it at the BOP in Noosa when trying to fit in the boards between the planks to be sure they were under the 12'6 cut. Some from the same brand could hardly fit, some had a 4 cm margin....
At the end of the day I am not sure it all matters as almost nobody feels it while paddling and the best paddlers are always in front. So who really cares??
Instead of thinking we will always benefit from a little difference or on the contrary won't be able to paddle or compete because the board ordered has 1cm more or less rocker than previously thought we should maybe concentrate on paddling more, adapt to the board we have and deal with it.
The most important seems to be the perception of the board we have, and why not.... but to know if what we are paddling is exactly what we think it is is another story

For something as long as 14ft (4267.2mm), should we be surprised to find up to 20mm difference on the beach (not at the end of the production line) considering we're dealing with materials that 1- cure in the sun and therefore change shape 2- have a generally a limited controled process in the glassing phase so end up with various amount of resin 3- gets loaded differently because of the paddler and its use?

Minkee said...

laceys lane said...

Minkee said...

laceys lane said...

Minkee said...

I like the doctor's proses even if I dont agree with them generally, they're good value and make you think a bit.

so as for managing stock, I don't agree. How managing a product that changes every week compare to one that changes once a year would be the same is beyond my understanding considering the surf shops we have in this country. Not to mention the resale value of the boards that is gold one week and worth peanuts the week after... I dont consider boards as consumables.

I also smile when we were told we would be third world servants to the big asian countries. Well, when these countries finish or shall I say slow their growth and stop depending on our mining resources, money will have to flow from somewhere else big style and we'll be pleased to rely on tourism.

So Lacey to answer your question.
I bought local, I wanted to do the "right thing". That's where the good bit stops.
Often small business are made of passionate people that love their discipline but haven't got a clue about business, customer service and marketing. Now I'm left with a board (not custom I precise) that has lost more than 55% of its value in not even 7 months. Well if anyone thinks that's acceptable for a racing sup, I don't, not in such a short period anyway. So my next board will be an import because the service will be there this time. If I had a good experience in the first place I'd very likely say different I admit but the truth is in the facts sadly.
On the other hand if you want a custom then it makes sense to go local. A custom board is not a transaction based on money but on emotion in my eyes so it's often an experience that will cost in the end when it comes to re-sale the board.

hi, i just caught this. i don't think its just customs mate, actually i know its not. if you think your gonna get big bucks for your production board come time to sell it- will i don't think so. i know of a girl who can't get anything for her production and custom boards.

it's a real problem for the sup industry and buyers i believe- who wants to get bugger all for their rather expensive board as so as its out the door.

really the smart thing to do is buy second hand and be ruthless, but i'm not that smart

but thats another topic in its self
cheers

I'm not after the big bucks with selling boards, for the big bucks I work
My once a year updated pop out will have a better resale value after 12 months than if I buy local again. That way I feel looked after and not shafted, that's called customer satisfaction. If you look at the "buy & sell" here you can see what goes at what value and how how quick it goes. When I see 2yrs old 14ft glides going for $1400 I think its owner thinks "sweet, I won't have to dig too deep for next one."
Please keep in mind I'm referring to pop-out board not custom.

If you want the latest you're not going to buy second hand either... But sure, people must make bargain from buying from you considering your pace
See you on the water.

the board you are talking is good, however i see 2 for $1250, one for $1150 on the breeze. what their advertised for and what one actually gets is two different things

don't you worry about what i get for mine. i do better then your figures because they all go well. however if you can get $1400 for that board 2 years old ,i better get you to sell all my boards

True, you're right about advertised price but I think you get my point. The first board is an investment, if by the time you buy you're second board you don't have to fork out too much because of the sale of the first board then you're better off. It's a cycle, you might well buy a wee bit more expensive 2nd board as a result and this will benefit the seller. So overall quality and resale value is what I look in a board now.

yeah, thats a fair point and something that has to be considered these days.

early up secondhand sups sold well because there just wasn't that many around.

also i think that is part of the reason for 14' er sbeing popular, quite hard to sell longer boards. i lot of people just don't have the room for them
cheers

Interesting discussion about resale value of boards.

I have seen plenty of sports grow at the rate the Stand Up us growing but I have never in 25 years see the dollar escalate so consistently to such a height, at the same time.

It is these two factors that have lead to an over supply and prices dropping on all boards. This then makes it harder to get a good return when you sell your board.
When we started selling SUP's in 2007 the price of imported boards was $2300. Two years later it had dropped to $1800. Last season our cheapest board was $1399. This year it is $1099 with a paddle!

This is going to slow down however if the dollar has finally hit the ceiling.

I guess you cant have it both ways - prices dropping and second hand values not following suit.

As customs are just that 'customised to suit a particular rider, they are always going to be harder to sell and get a good return. They are also generally made lighter for high performance.

It also makes it harder (to get a good return), when you buy into a niche market, that is still developing (race boards) or you go for smaller unknown brands - exceptions being highly sort after, quality product.

Nothing has changed, it happens in every boom sport. It is just made worse with an escalating dollar.

Hope this helps to ease the pain

paul.j said...


If these guys are doing it for the love of it thats cool but when there product gets pimped on say a forum like this that was built on the big brands putting there money where there month is then yes i think some of there topics should get pulled of as to me that is riding on the coat tails.

I am curious what people think about this. For example, lets look at a shaper who is starting out and is keen to advertise on here but finds the cost is prohibitive with the volume of boards he is doing. Does this mean he shouldn't put up videos of his boards? Or talk generally about design? Won't this help to grow his business to a point where they can afford to advertise?

Should the only people allowed to 'talk up' their products be paid up advertisers? I understand there is a fine line between out and out pimping and a bit of putting it out there.

Is not the forum about sharing info? - be it suptle brand exposure or a stoked dude talking up their favourite shop? To me this is what makes the forum interesting. BTW for the record, I have no financial interest in SUP whatsoever!!!

goatman said...

paul.j said...


If these guys are doing it for the love of it thats cool but when there product gets pimped on say a forum like this that was built on the big brands putting there money where there month is then yes i think some of there topics should get pulled of as to me that is riding on the coat tails.

I am curious what people think about this. For example, lets look at a shaper who is starting out and is keen to advertise on here but finds the cost is prohibitive with the volume of boards he is doing. Does this mean he shouldn't put up videos of his boards? Or talk generally about design? Won't this help to grow his business to a point where they can afford to advertise?

Should the only people allowed to 'talk up' their products be paid up advertisers? I understand there is a fine line between out and out pimping and a bit of putting it out there.

Is not the forum about sharing info? - be it suptle brand exposure or a stoked dude talking up their favourite shop? To me this is what makes the forum interesting. BTW for the record, I have no financial interest in SUP whatsoever!!!

How come in SBs & LBs we have a couple of shapers that comment on stuff and show pics of boards that they done for people and shown their own quivers ect.
I think its a great thing and there should be more of it. At the same time I dont think they are pimping as such but just sharing what they do.
DTM is a classic example of this in the SUP forum and in my eyes is the same as the other shapers mentioned.

SUP is similar to Windsurf as far as the boards go to a certain degree, but you dont see this type of dicussion over in their room but their tech is alot more refined as they have been around alot longer than SUP as well.

goatman said...
Should the only people allowed to 'talk up' their products be paid up advertisers?

Yes. Most definately. This is why surfing magazines are in such fine form at the moment, and Seabreeze should follow the same path where all content is dictated by advertiser dollars.

doggie said...


How come in SBs & LBs we have a couple of shapers that comment on stuff and show pics of boards that they done for people and shown their own quivers ect.
I think its a great thing and there should be more of it. At the same time I dont think they are pimping as such

Well said doggie and I cant wait for another one of Lacey's classic topic's,sure was entertaining.

love you all 62 mac mctavish

Hey breezers firstly just want to say I have found this thread a great read, informative with mostly balanced views from all posters. What I am most impressed is that unlike other 'topical' threads it hasn't degenerated into a heated slanging match.

Back on topic my thoughts are that being relatively new to SUP I will always go for the 'off the shelf' product to start with. Hey it might be a local or an o/s board but it will be my decision based on what I need. If there were two boards I considered suitable I would probably choose the local shaped board but that's me. I like being part of the local community and try and support local as much as I can but that's my mindset and each to their own. As mentioned though that there are limited local 'off the shelf' products available so and o/s board maybe my only choice.

On the question re pimping, I am all for retailers, shapers, suppliers promoting their product as in the end it helps me the consumer make an better informed decision on what in my books is a big purchase. I however wouldn't want to see those who have spent and invested money supporting the site get taken for a ride. Maybe have a separate monitored thread with levels of access for promotion for such posts. Probably cant be done but just an idea.

I am also wondering what's going to happen if/when the AUD falls, will that $1099 board deal AA mentioned go back up to $1500 or beyond. That will be a real test for the market to see
the level of elasticity of demand for SUP's. Dont think we have to worry about the AUD falling too much in the short term though, just came back from an Economic Function in Brissie and the honchos there are saying the exchange rate will fall but will still hover around USD$1 over the next two years. The US is an economic basket case right now with no real upside for a long time.

For me resale was a big factor in buying a board, but now I've progressed to sup's with the volume around 110litres its going to be hard to sell a production board as well a custom of that size because the crew surfing these will want the newest ,latest, greatest anyway so for my most recent purchase went for the custom option and had it made more specific to suit what I wanted.Thanks Dan.
If I wanted a larger sup with more volume it would appeal to more people so would then probably go for a popout as easier to sell.

P.S Would like to thank the big advertisers on this site for giving me the opportunity to post here.

62mac said...

Come on Lacey we need another cracker,stuff all on the box atm

hey mac, i'm thinking of 'while the cats away, the mice will play'

think of all the stuff i can post while all the big wigs are away in hawaii

just kidding