rahams said...

laceys lane said...

rahams said...

malibujet said...

One design won't work in a SUP surfing comp. What size would the board be? Too small and the big guys won't be able to paddle it, too big and the smaller guys won't be able to turn it. Age divisions are the only way it will work.

My first sup comp was noosa 2009
Numbers have been going backwards since then
So something is not working for surf sup.
Multiple age groups for me isn't the answer
One design/ one size might not be the answer either
But like appsy said unless the major players can see some up side
They are not going to support it.

noel i reckon 9' minimum

That would be up to the sponser
For example a certain brand could hold a comp with 2 divisions
Their most popular 10' board and 8' board.the surfer picks what division they want to surf
Or both .

i was thinking nobody makes a sup less then 9 foot

PTWoody said...

I was just thinking about the surf comp for old bastards specifically and it occurred to me that there's a couple of issues raised here that kind of clash in terms of a solution.

One of the concerns mentioned is that the Nationals this year has only catered for 8 competitors in the Over 40s surfing, which is 2 heats and then a final. This is considered less than satisfactory.

The other issue raised is that there should be an Over 50s surf comp at state and national level.

I put it to you that if Surfing Australia introduces an Over 50s surf comp along with an Over 40s surf comp, then both divisions will be restricted to 8 entrants each, allowing for 2 heats and then the final. Again, not satisfactory for all.

I imagine the preference of those advocating change would be for both divisions to include at least 16 participants so that there would be 2 rounds before finals at a minimum. However this would require some additional hours in the day at nationals, when they are already trying to cram all racing and surfing into 2 days.

So if it came down to a choice, what would be preferable? 8 x Over 40s and 8 x Over 50s? Or an expanded 16 x Over 40s? Or some other permutation?

Yes PT a can of worms, but not one to keep a lid on.. both sup surf and sup marathons require optimum conditions ie mornings are often the best, at The Vicco titles the surfing started after the marathon finished, the events should/could be run concurrently, yes there are issues with personnel, tides, winds etc but generally mornings are the best, I think the surfing kicked off at about 10 am?, which meant a couple of hours extra time to be gained, the bop race can be run in most conditions as was the case with Vicco's, I guess it also comes down to locations where all three events can be staged, Torquay was good, is it the best? as for size of heats, the question is raised on existing numbers, what happens if there are more people rocking up to the contest as is hoped? cut off numbers at what amount, it may also be an issue to be addressed in order to do the comp on one day that, and if the numbers are there, that each person may have to choose which event he or she would be best for themselves to enter. Then take into account having a larger contingent of women who want to enter which is also something we all want to encourage, maybe Sup Surf is treated as an individual discipline that takes a day to complete and is not squashed into fitting in around the other events? maybe more questions than answers but heck its just my thoughts :-))

Sparx said...

What would be preferable would be to remove the SUP from the current style of Nationals program and run it as a stand alone event in an area that caters for all of the various disciplines involved, surf, technical, down wind and distance. No pressure no drama and a week to run it. A National Festival of SUP. Make it an open event, all comers and all age divisions in ten year increments, no qualification pre recs, first couple of days to sort the field and then into second round, quarters, semis and finals. Everyone guaranteed to surf or race at least twice. Industry gets involved with demos and expo and the whole festival thing gets pumped.... bands, films meet and greet, the whole shebang!!!
Pie in the sky but it works for me
Cheers
Sparx

Now your talking Sparx. The wave skis had exactly this and we would get up to 80 people spread over a multitude of divisions, massive p!ss ups as well

Sorry Noel but I don't like the idea of sponsor categories or limitations on board sizes. I would be out if we had to go back to riding massive logs, might as well take up LongBoarding.

On another point, the surfing side seems to have been given a back seat compared to the racing as far as the State associations are concerned IMO. Take the QLD titles this weekend. They had three days to run it with buggar all participants and had 2 days of very contestable surf (sat and Sun) but scheduled the surfing for Mon knowing there was a massive low about to form off the coast. You could have run the surfing in the arvos after the racing or ran the BOP on the Monday in the reforms at Currumbin.

A 40s and 50s division makes perfect sense BTW.

Which is why they should be separate events completely perhaps.

Sparx said...

What would be preferable would be to remove the SUP from the current style of Nationals program and run it as a stand alone event in an area that caters for all of the various disciplines involved, surf, technical, down wind and distance. No pressure no drama and a week to run it. A National Festival of SUP....

I think the idea of a National Festival of SUP is a great idea and hopefully it will come with time, but the infrastructure costs of setting up such an event for a relatively small number of competitors (compared to the total number of surfers at the Australian Surf Festival) makes it difficult to run. At the moment we get 2 days scheduled between the shortboarding and longboarding events so maybe in a couple of years the whole festival could expand to 3 weeks with a week for the Sup events, but still the benefit of using the infrastructure set up for the bigger event. The membership base of Surfing Australia and it's state branches give it the funds to run an event like the Aussies, if we completely separate SUP from surfing the membership base vs. no. of competitors competing at Aussies is currently disproportionate to surfing and funding a standalone event could have a lot of downfalls.

As for pre-qualification, I like having the State Title events and would hate to see them disappear or lose their meaning if the Aussies had completely open entry process.

For the surfing, maybe the pre-qualified state winners could be seeded directly into the main draw, and the event could offer an open 'trials' for those who didn't win/place in their state titles to still have a go with the top 4 from trials getting into the main event. This way if anyone feels the number of positions offered to their state is unfair based on quantity and calibre of competitors in a single division, then those who just missed out on state selection still get a crack at the national title, they just have to work a bit harder to get there.

I'm not sure what you could do for the racing side of things to reward the pre-qualified entrants? Any suggestions???

I think a lot of improvements will happen over time and we just have to let the sport evolve and having a national title event covering surfing and racing together for the first time this year is a step in the right direction. Things like the allocations for each state might need to be revised based on SUP member numbers (rather than the number of members of each state surfing body) and additional age group categories may need to be offered in the future.

PTWoody said...


...overall, I prefer the idea of qualification as opposed to open entry and I really don't think the state allocations are all that far off the mark in racing...

I think you're right in principle and the mens/over 40's seems pretty good (although you could argue that there were as many over 40 entrants as open entrants in most states so the selection could possibly be opened up to reflect that).

With the womens, I'm pretty sure (and someone correct me if i'm wrong) that QLD was the only state to have enough girls competing in the race events such that a competitor could complete either race and not make the team. But the allocation of 4 spots is probably still sufficient (based on the total number of participants in the sport Australia wide) and we just have to wait until the numbers in the other states catch up to their allocations. It will be interesting to see whether Surfing Australia decides to offer unused allocations in the racing to other states (as they have in the past with the surfing) or whether they just run with smaller race numbers if spots aren't filled by their own states.

PTWoody said...


...The only thing I think is a good idea for pre-qualification and that is to de-emphasise state titles as the one and only criteria for selection. Certainly state champions should be rewarded but otherwise, each state should consider club events to compensate for a consistent quality paddler who may have been ill or unavailable or just had a real bad day at state titles.

I think Surfing Australia do keep a couple of wildcards to award to high performers who may have had alternative competitions or have otherwise been unavailable for their respective State Titles, but my understanding was that if you are available for and compete in your state title (and have a 'real bad day') then you are not eligible to apply for one of these.

Geez four pagers of grumpiness this is turning into the longboard forum

appsy said...


I reckon the next big thing is bodysurfing. Cant wait for a body surfing circuit to kick off. Full body lycra for comp rashies.

Yeah not so keen on sharing the comp full body lycra rashy with the dude in the previous heat.

appsy said...

No point on having a "sup surf" event mate if there's only 20 people doing them. And there / we are all riding boards which the big companies don't even make.

Over sup surf events where there's two heats and then a final. A total field of 15 sup/ers is useless. There seems to be a decline in people doing it. I reckon forget about surf sup events and just have the paddle events. Seems to be more people enjoying it and having fun.

Surfing Aus and SUPA are doing a awesome job. I lasted five months as a president for my local boardriders club and what there doing must be difficult.

I reckon the next big thing is bodysurfing. Cant wait for a body surfing circuit to kick off. Full body lycra for comp rashies.

goatman said...

Which is why they should be separate events completely perhaps.

Well we are getting 30 to clubs comps here in Sydney so I think it is all about the delivery. I can't speak for the QLD surfing comps but here in NSW we got a full contingency for the State titles surfing even though it was held mid week.

At the SUPA state titles we got about 50 as it was held on a weekend. I think people appreciate repercharge heats as well, giving everyone at least 2 surfs. Throw in a BOP event (or race) at the end (like we do in our club comps) and you have at least 3 goes for everyone as a minimum.

Don't write off the surfing just yet because you have lost interest.

BTW the 'Snowy' is not an event that would ever attract large numbers as it is designed to held as quickly as possible with 6 man heats and straight elimination, tacked on to a mal contest.

Firstly I'm right behind Surfing Qld they do a great job , it's just the price & level of competition that scare people off here in Qld , we also get heaps more at our local Supsa events.

For the average punter you enter events to have fun and not to pay $60 for a T-shirt and get your arse kicked in a sudden death first heat. Local events are the reverse of this , no entry fee , free hot dogs , double reporcharge and maybe a few free beers.

Qld is very fortunate to have a real real solid base of good Sup Surfers & Racers. You can look at competition two ways , the trophy hunt or just to be in to compete against some of the best (your chosen peirs). I remember so clearly my first Mal function 4 years ago standing on the beach in a horror heat with Ray Cleaves and Noel Graham and they both turned to me and said "Good Luck" ..I came so last but that is still my most memorable contest experience.

If you want the sport to grow you need to back ALL the events , just enter for the fun of it you can never have enough T-Shirts.....

I like this thread so much I just have to keep it going.
I think Rob has it right with the free hot dogs and beer, you can keep your T-shirts.
My question is Rob who pays for the free stuff if there's no entry fee

Wrong goat, haven't lost interest at all in "suping". I wasn't talking about the snowy, was talking about Noosa. Seems mate its all under control then. Surf sup is steaming ahead. Noel G....move ya surf/sup shop to the northern beaches mate, youll kill it. hahahah

goatman said...

appsy said...

No point on having a "sup surf" event mate if there's only 20 people doing them. And there / we are all riding boards which the big companies don't even make.

Over sup surf events where there's two heats and then a final. A total field of 15 sup/ers is useless. There seems to be a decline in people doing it. I reckon forget about surf sup events and just have the paddle events. Seems to be more people enjoying it and having fun.

Surfing Aus and SUPA are doing a awesome job. I lasted five months as a president for my local boardriders club and what there doing must be difficult.

I reckon the next big thing is bodysurfing. Cant wait for a body surfing circuit to kick off. Full body lycra for comp rashies.

goatman said...

Which is why they should be separate events completely perhaps.

Well we are getting 30 to clubs comps here in Sydney so I think it is all about the delivery. I can't speak for the QLD surfing comps but here in NSW we got a full contingency for the State titles surfing even though it was held mid week.

At the SUPA state titles we got about 50 as it was held on a weekend. I think people appreciate repercharge heats as well, giving everyone at least 2 surfs. Throw in a BOP event (or race) at the end (like we do in our club comps) and you have at least 3 goes for everyone as a minimum.

Don't write off the surfing just yet because you have lost interest.

BTW the 'Snowy' is not an event that would ever attract large numbers as it is designed to held as quickly as possible with 6 man heats and straight elimination, tacked on to a mal contest.

appsy said...

Wrong goat, haven't lost interest at all in "suping". I wasn't talking about the snowy, was talking about Noosa. Seems mate its all under control then. Surf sup is steaming ahead. Noel G....move ya surf/sup shop to the northern beaches mate, youll kill it. hahahah

I meant lost interest in comps not Suping.

Noosa is similar to the Snowy in my book for the reasons mentioned above. SUP surfing comps will develop at the grass roots level, ie the Clubs. Between Northern Sydney and Newcastle we have 3 strong clubs each getting 25 plus guys/girls to their comps. Then there is the Cronulla club as well. I don't know what is happening in the gong. Looks like the Sunny Coast and Goldy have growing club events as well.

Surfing comps aren't everyone's cup of tea which is why racing will always outstrip it as it is more available to a wider range of people.

I have spoken to a number of retailers around Melbourne over the last few days who are also Sup event organizers, a couple still to come but the overall response so far is a very enthusiastic and supportive to the idea of an over 50's category in this forthcoming Summer events series.
There are also some local clubs that I will be hoping to contact with regard to the introduction of the new category, the groundswell at grass roots level and the general response has been extremely positive...
Hopefully the energy towards the change will be carried on at the various levels to the Surfing Australia meeting in August

Teeps, your problem is you're not old enough to be a grumpy old man of SUP and you're not heavy enough to be a grumpy fat man of SUP.