PTWoody said...

laceys lane said...

PTWoody said...

ockanui said...

Posts like this and opinions expressed, I believe should be passed onto the Sports governing bodies to listen and learn and incorporate, when making decisions of not only age group categories but board length classes, as the Sport is in its infancy in Australia and its the prime time to get the workings right.

Age group categories are a luxury that we can play around with at our own discretion but board length classes do need to follow international competition rules, especially those set down by the ISA. No point being out of step with the rest of the world and the major board manufacturers.

ummm,you tell that to the hawaiians.

only a small percentage of paddlers are going to involved with isa ie international. aus surfing have been able to comply and still have other classes catered for. what about the paddlers that consider the hawaiian experience their macca


should manufacturers be setting the standards to suit themselfs tricky question

i used to be a 14 ft is it, be all, end all. but after getting a big board again, there is a magic there that i would hate to see lost in the rush to appease isa and manufacturing companies

Surfing Australia and the state affiliates don't need to concern themselves with Hawaiian events as they are for individuals rather than a team representing Australia and selected by Surfing Australia. Anyone wishing to go to Hawaii to compete just needs to buy a plane ticket. They don't need to qualify at nationals.

The point being, the state and national titles are a pathway to ISA word titles. If the top competitors at state titles turn up with 17 and 18' boards, how can they be selected for nationals or world titles where the maximum board length is 14'? You might argue that the cream rises to the top regardless of board length but we have found that one or two of our dominant unlimited performers have struggled when stepping down to 14' or 12'6". So that suggests you can't just send people to an international event on the shorter boards and expect that they will go well if they haven't proven themselves.

Likewise, if we allow unlimited boards into BOP races when the rest of the world doesn't, we will not be able to remain competitive at an international level.

Where I mentioned the big international manufacturers, I don't suggest we allow them to set the rules to suit their own agenda. What I mean is that they are following the global trends and building BOP race boards at 12'6" length. If we are out of step with the global trends, then we are out of step with board development and trying to use downwind or flat water boards in BOP races.

I guess what I'm trying to say is we can compromise on age divisions in order to encourage participation, and there is room for flexibility on board length at club comp level. But as soon as we get to state and national titles, there has to be consistency of formats or else the team selection process becomes a farce.

my point is not everybody wants to go to peru. my point is some people's focus could be hawaii. some people might just like riding different boards. some people might just be too dam old to go to peru on a 12'6 board

i'm suggesting 2 pathways or more, not just 1 pathway. i'm sure those paddlers can make their own minds up which pathway they go. let give them a choice i say and not be too dictator -ish about it all

Scotty88 said...

You men are very grumpy.

who asked you fella

laceys lane said...

my point is not everybody wants to go to peru. my point is some people's focus could be hawaii. some people might just like riding different boards. some people might just be too dam old to go to peru on a 12'6 board

i'm suggesting 2 pathways or more, not just 1 pathway. i'm sure those paddlers can make their own minds up which pathway they go. let give them a choice i say and not be too dictator -ish about it all

But again, the Hawaiian pathway is not undermined by current regulations at state and national titles. Those wishing to go to Hawaii just need to buy a plane ticket, they don't need to qualify. On the other hand, the Peru option requires qualification and selection. Surfing Australia has a responsibility to select a team for Peru. That's why they have the current formats in place. This applies to race distances as well as board lengths. If Surfing Australia took on the responsibility of offering competitors some sort of warm up for Hawaii, the race distance would have to double at least, with strong downwind conditions. I'm just unconvinced that it's the purpose of national titles to give competitors a pathway to Hawaii.

have you still got that bottle of Red handy Scotty we need you to stand up and show us yer Label

BulldogPup said...

have you still got that bottle of Red handy Scotty we need you to stand up and show us yer Label

You wish

Instead of age groups what about board groups.
Opens up to 9' Short board judging.9' over more points for style?
At the nsw titles I had a couple of heats with guys on 9 plus boards
I'm on a 8' foot board .all I had to do was a couple of dishpan turns
And the guy on the bigger board had no chance .The guy on the bigger board
Surfed unreal but never had a chance with the current system???

rahams said...

Instead of age groups what about board groups.
Opens up to 9' Short board judging.9' over more points for style?
At the nsw titles I had a couple of heats with guys on 9 plus boards
I'm on a 8' foot board .all I had to do was a couple of dishpan turns
And the guy on the bigger board had no chance .The guy on the bigger board
Surfed unreal but never had a chance with the current system???

Sh!t Noel that's can of worms no different to the Mals with traditional and progressive. I'm staying away from this one.

sharpie said...

and by the way its called SURFING AUSTRALIA not sup racing australia. sure, if its got a motor race it, if not just paddle away.[}:)][}:)][}:)] grumpy.

I guess this applies to Usain Bolt and James Magnussen too?

Here's my take on it. I have entered the SUP surfing in the Qld 40+ div. I am 60 and still like to compete even though i know I don't have much chance against a 40 yr old but it's still fun. I surf Noosa almost every day and a lot of the SUP surfers there are over 50 and I know a lot of them would enter contests if there were more age divisions. It's not going to spread out the guys who enter into smaller divisions, there would be a lot more entries. Look at Longboard contests, the largest entries are in the 55+ and the 60+ and a lot of them SUP as well. I don't enter SUP races as I would probably get flogged in an open event paddling against a 20 something paddler but if there were age divisions I'd have a go. So if the competition of SUP is to grow there needs to be more age divisions in both surf and race events.

Hahahah massive can of worms.

For the surf sup we should only be allowed to ride 9ft plus, no more 8'0s or less. I had way more fun on my 9ft 6 then my 8'0s. But i ride my 8'0s because its easier to get a score.

Spoke to some industry big wigs the other week, they can't sell 8'0s to the public as alot of the crew cant ride em. If they cant sell em then they aren't earning any coin, not earning any coin, means nothing back to the sport. It may also get rid of dishpan's (hahahhaha)

Surfing Aus and SUPA are doing an awesome job. It must be hard to cater for everyone. The racing seems to be hammering ahead.

rahams said...

Instead of age groups what about board groups.
Opens up to 9' Short board judging.9' over more points for style?
At the nsw titles I had a couple of heats with guys on 9 plus boards
I'm on a 8' foot board .all I had to do was a couple of dishpan turns
And the guy on the bigger board had no chance .The guy on the bigger board
Surfed unreal but never had a chance with the current system???

DavidJohn said...

malibujet said...

Here's my take on it. I have entered the SUP surfing in the Qld 40+ div. I am 60 and still like to compete even though i know I don't have much chance against a 40 yr old but it's still fun. I surf Noosa almost every day and a lot of the SUP surfers there are over 50 and I know a lot of them would enter contests if there were more age divisions. It's not going to spread out the guys who enter into smaller divisions, there would be a lot more entries. Look at Longboard contests, the largest entries are in the 55+ and the 60+ and a lot of them SUP as well. I don't enter SUP races as I would probably get flogged in an open event paddling against a 20 something paddler but if there were age divisions I'd have a go. So if the competition of SUP is to grow there needs to be more age divisions in both surf and race events.

I agree.

Make the prize money less.. Make the trophys smaller.. Even if it's just an elephant stamp on the back of the hand..

It's more about competing against those your own age than it is about winning or loosing.. or what you win.

It's true that its all about the 'partisapating' but not if you're only there for the younger ones to have someone to beat.

I'm pretty sure at the BOP Races in the US they have winners for +30, +40, +50 and +60... There's lots of winners..

And another thing.. When are we going to see the sun again here in Melbourne?..

DJ

Could not have said it better than you guys
Shazam!!! what a can of worms. Lots of great ideas from all and sundry, no right or wrong, all valid in their own context.
I agree that we need to develope a comprehensive junior program and that's a challenge. If we dont want the sport to fade into the sunset as participants get older and older we have to find a way to make it cool for the kids. However when you look at the way trad longboarding has taken hold with the young hip and tragic, who's to say at some point SUP won't be flavor of the month with the twenty five and unders. We dont in Australia have the Kai Lenny's, Zane Shweitzer's, Connor Baxter's and Noah Yaps in any appreciable numbers. Im sure their out there but as of yet, they arent being nurtured.
As for me, as I've said, I love to compete. Not necessarily to beat crew, more to see where I sit in relation to the benchmark. I like to push my personal boundaries every time I hit the water even if that only means trying to get myself out through a shifty beachie hair dry. Fairly obviously the benchmark for a fifty two year old is going to be different to that of a twenty something. My original sook was that even though at this years Nationals there is an Over Forties, its half assed....two heats is more of a demo than a division. We arent getting ahead of ourselves, the numbers are there right now, why not do it properly?
But hey I'm a big boy. If I don't get into the Forties I'll just have to get one of Leons concrete milkshakes into me and HTFU for the Open. As for trying to hang on to my glory days, jeez I've won the local board club aggregate in both Open and Over Forties a few times but.... for the third year in a row I have earned the right to represent my State at the National Titles....for me it doesn't get much more glorious than that.
At the end of the day wether its surfing or racing, we're not invading Poland, we're just a bunch of big kids playing in the ocean.......Enjoy!!
Cheers
Sparx

PTWoody said...

laceys lane said...

my point is not everybody wants to go to peru. my point is some people's focus could be hawaii. some people might just like riding different boards. some people might just be too dam old to go to peru on a 12'6 board

i'm suggesting 2 pathways or more, not just 1 pathway. i'm sure those paddlers can make their own minds up which pathway they go. let give them a choice i say and not be too dictator -ish about it all

But again, the Hawaiian pathway is not undermined by current regulations at state and national titles. Those wishing to go to Hawaii just need to buy a plane ticket, they don't need to qualify. On the other hand, the Peru option requires qualification and selection. Surfing Australia has a responsibility to select a team for Peru. That's why they have the current formats in place. This applies to race distances as well as board lengths. If Surfing Australia took on the responsibility of offering competitors some sort of warm up for Hawaii, the race distance would have to double at least, with strong downwind conditions. I'm just unconvinced that it's the purpose of national titles to give competitors a pathway to Hawaii.

but again not everyone wants to peru. the heathen majority

aus surfing can run their races as they see fit for those that wish to go that path.(the new in buzz word- path/way) no problems

but why should that be the be all, end all for 80% of the rest of the paddling population may i ask.

you are asking everybody to conform to a minority, yes a elite minority granted.

i sure hope we don't go down the shortboarding path where only the pro's and their best interests matter - i would be very disappointed

anyway this could go on and on.

i'm happy that qld surfing, troy peasy, the supsa committee and supsa provide a pathway for my dreams

laceys lane said...


i'm happy that qld surfing, troy peasy, the supsa committee and supsa provide a pathway for my dreams

+1 100%

Hey Adapt
Didn't for a minute take anything personaly.
You and Woody were one hundred percent correct in moving us on from the Queensland Titles thread, a time and a place and all that stuff. And there has been some bloody interesting ideas thrown up as a result.
It's great that you're passionate about SUP, with very few exceptions, most who post on this forum are passionate about the sport. All the racing stuff is eye opening for me. It's sometimes easy to get cocooned in your own little interest area, in my case surf, but quite obviously there's committed individuals out there pushing the boundaries of the sport in all its forms for the benefit of everyone.
All good.... hope your getting amongst it
Cheers
Sparx

After a couple of days hearty discussion there seems to be an overwhelming support for an older age category, where does it go from here? will the surfing associations listen?

I don't want to sound apologetic for the facts, but there seems to be more older people embracing Sup than at the other end, we all would like to see some more youth in the sport competing at the highest level and we would all encourage that and continue to do so, its only a matter of time, but in the mean time, the sport should be inclusive to all ages, including the older category.

I wonder how does the push for the new " over 50's pathway" continue past this thread or the next or the previous?, its up to the keen oldies to hassle those who make the decisions, I guess the one redeeming beauty of older age is that we less inclined to give a farrk of what people think, so therefore that should make it easier to be persistent, won't it ....