Piros said...
Haven't read all the post but original question seems to be directed at the "Dishpan".For those that don't what that is , it's when you push hard on the tail to break the fins free to do a cheater tail slide flat cutback. When the surf is small in comps this is all you can do to score points , no it's not a rail turn but without speed and a decent wave face you can't do a full rail turn cut back on a Sup and keep the momentum , you will end up behind the foam ball , ending your wave.

Shortboarders do it all the time , Sup riders do it more because we can't generate the same speed. It's all part of comps and it just gets mixed up and scored with the other manoeuvres what's the problem with that. It all adds to the show.

off to the washing up bay with you

paul.j said...

OG SUP said...

paul.j said...

laceys lane said...
the grom within should still be short board surfing.


it's a standup paddle board we've on, not hp al merrick or dhd.


watch the quickie pro to see the difference people

You right if I was still a real grommet I would still be on my short board and that's my point I don't think our sport at the moment is as attractive to young guys and girls as surfing is and rightly so surfing is cheaper and way more appealing time them. I'm all for bringing in the juniors and know hoe important it is but I still have never had a 15 year old kid time in and buy a board.

In saying that at roar we are nearly ready to launch a junior programme that might just change all this

Your previous post
SUP has being going pretty good up to date with out to many juniors? Pretty sure it's the fastest growing water sport and this is without juniors. Maybe a junior in our sport fir now is someone in their mid 20's?

Why would you post this if your about to launch a juniors program or are the juniors 25?

Well up to date what i have said is true! but as with every one else here i would love some younger riders to get in to the sport so instead of just hoping they will take it up we are trying to set a plan to give it a push. We are not going to be making any money with this venture but hopefully if it works out it could be good for the sport. But for the juniors to be a big part of this sport there are a few big hurdles to get over first.

Hi Jacko, I realise retail has to make money as for you guys its not just a sport its a living! You have to divide your resources and look at where will you get your best return and often that has to be NOW just to pay bills. You also compete on a global level and the results you and Angie have achieved are outstanding. The only way to get to those results is un waivering commitment and focus. The average SUPer is not going to the ISA Championships next year but the sport seems to have totally squewed itself to that end IMO. Now is the time to invest in long term strategy to make the sport grow. That means we do need to get happy smiling faces hopefully driven by family participation in your door, to events, competitions etc. What are the steps that we need to take as a community to take make the sport more engaging and accessible? With the knowledgable people we have on this forum why dont we come up with a solid plan that makes sense and benefits everybody.

CMC said...
Original post. Not even a question, rail turns are the only turns. Flat slides etc are in part due to bad design on part due to fins way too small for the widths of the tails. Just my opinion here, but then I'd rather watch Matt Hoy or Occy rather than Gabriel Medina as well. I like to see some power in a turn.


Development of the sport. That's another topic altogether.

I have had this discussion quite a few times in the past months.

Other sports like windsurfing for example had a similar explosion and then died. When equipment becomes too specialized and it becomes hard to learn or start to compete people stop. As the pointy end loses interest there is nobody to replace them and the sport slows down.

While I love the idea of junior development there is a whole much bigger group that is being forgotten or overlooked. Every race or surf event should have a novice section, a short length race or a time based event where new competitors feel comfortable to enter and enjoy.

Look at running for example, you don't only have jogging and marathons, you have 5km, 10km half marathons etc. something where people can start, get involved, love it, get the bug and continue.

The minute novices are forgotten, even with juniors the competitive side of the sport will decline.

CMC you are right on the money, the racing in Melbourne used to be aimed at the novices and the families came and everyone had a ball. The average race was circa 1.5km and even the punter off the street said yeah i could have a crack at that distance and have some fun. When the focus changed to meet ISA criteria 6 - 10 - 20km the novices went hmmm not for me. The additional change to a 12'6 focus lost a lot of people as it disadvantaged all but the top elite paddlers. Even though we hear all the arguments about get rid of the unlimited boards, even down here lots of people love them and its their only board that the use for down winding, expedition paddling as well as racing. Now they simply don't race and often don't come to events at all. We used to have lots of Newbie events and the KING of the newbies is DJ the eternally stoked one. Its gone from being about FUN to being totally focused. We have plenty of Elite paddlers training hard and they need to its their profession, other people also want to learn but they may not want to train for the next worlds they may just want to improve their stroke or learn to catch a wave or work out how to do a down wind run and we need to cater to both ends of the scale. Only my thoughts add your own1

In South Africa we are now virtually always (except for downwinders) offering a 1.5-2km shortcourse for kids and novices. We also made the mistake of only offering 6-10km races - and it kept the newbies away.

We have also shunned the 12'6 to keep classes simple (there is only one class here - 14') although we have some roof-top shouters claiming we'll never be competitive at Worlds etc. That may be, but we did manage a 3rd this year for young Dylan Frick on his only 3rd ever outing on a 12'6.

To the majority in charge here it made more sense to have one big competitive class rather than multiple classes with few entrants.

Time may prove us wrong but numbers are growing steadily and recent results seem to indicate we are digging out some talent.

What that all has to do with a flat vs hard turn on the rail is a mystery to me....

teatrea said...
Not sure how this got into participation levels from dishpan turnsBut my two cents worth anyway , i think you will attract more punters to the sport with shorter races , longer down wind races are great but not for everyone. Also many people expecially those that havent spent a lot of time in the ocean , would be put off by off shore racing , very scary for your average punter who has never been a few k,s offshore before. Short and sweet is the goAny ways you need to cater for all interests and abilities. I think short sup racing ie , true sprints 200 400 1000m would be a big hit , and 4 to 5 k is exciting also.20 k downwinders not so exciting

to detract for dw ing would be sad. its the greatest thing about paddle boards.

i wouldn't do the training and flatwater stuff if the ocean was taken away

i don't think there is anything being done much to help non experienced paddlers in regards to handling the ocean.

its a remiss imo


ps i hate the term 'novice'

Phil have you got your answer ?, all we have seen is pages of Pissing on trees.
Personally dislike the dishpan/flat lowspeed turn , luv the rail buried/ high speed carv.

Tractorguy said...
Phil have you got your answer ?, all we have seen is pages of Pissing on trees.
Personally dislike the dishpan/flat lowspeed turn , luv the rail buried/ high speed carv.

We still havn't answered it
(Has the critera shifted to make up for the change in style?)

Style is every persons unique slant on technique of performing a movement, so my answer is no.

Personally I dropped nearly 8 inches in 12 months, down to 8 foot but have stayed pretty narrow at 28" and gone for a touch more rocker and deeper concave. The thing flies and rail carves better than any SUP I've ever had so don't assume short = dispan.

Anyone seen Noel Graham surf? He rides around 31" (short sups) and carves as good as anyone so it depends on how good the person surfing is. Dispaning or flat turns are either by necessity in gutless comp waves or bad technique IMO.

Regarding 10 foot boards for comps - WTF? There wouldn't be a single person in our club on a 10/10+ foot board, what are you guys on about? How does this make it more accessible? Go join a longboard club

Re the popout v custom debate, as long as the shape is good and the weight not too heavy it shouldn't matter - just ask Beau Nixon.

As for cost, ha. I just got back into Mtn Bikes where guys will spend $1000 + on a wheelset to drop 300 grams.....SUP is cheap.

Re development of the sport, unless your in the industry do you really want to see 100s of SUPs in the lineup? Yes racing will be more popular as anyone can do it. I'm in a Mtn Bike race this weekend with 1200 people in it.

goatman said...

Regarding 10 foot boards for comps - WTF? There wouldn't be a single person in our club on a 10/10+ foot board, what are you guys on about? How does this make it more accessible? Go join a longboard club

I think that's the point, the elite style of comps does not appeal to a lot of people.

Just because no one in a club focused on performance surfing uses a 10ft sup does not mean no one is interested in them. I think that makes sense

goatman said...
I'm sure as an extra category it would have plenty of interest. I was actually having a crack at AA and Lacey suggesting that comps should be limited 10 foot boards

Yep that will not happen

goatman said...
On that point, I'm not sure how customs would be the death of SUP surf comps either, they are generally cheaper than pop outs anyways.

Hard to get customs over here so not an issue. But the guys on them are winning state rounds apart from the last one which was choppy as.

goatman said...
Making Surf comps more fun by including repercharges and BOP events like our club comps and the Surfing NSW titles is a step in the right direction (along with more age categories).

Sounds great.

A 10ft class might work too for us old unfit folks

Simondo said...
Hilly, I'll never get tired of looking at that shot!
Great topic Phill!

+1 luv that shot

As per usual, you know it Brooko

husq2100 said...
Comps, no good at surfing and have very little fitness unless you count eating hungry jacks.. (I hold 3 state titles in that)

Are those 3 titles all Qld? Rival bodies? Another post for that one too.

I've seen good ideas for participation in the States as part of MTB races. They had Beginner - Sport - Elite - Semi Pro - Pro. The first 3 divisions had within them a range of age categories and all were full and alot of fun.
Rules of competition were if you had raced in one division you could not back track to a lesser division. The lower divisions rode shorter distances and usually less challenging courses. I think after a season (race series) in one, finishing well, you had to advance to the higher division. Seemed well received by all competitors.

Maybe a modified version could work in SUP.

Oh, and of course there are few things as good to do or watch as a full-rail turn at speed, whether you;re on a SUp, a shorty or a mal. I never managed to do a full rail turn bodysurfing though.

goatman said...
got myself a 29er!

Ha Ha me too! loving it

And I ride at the Goat Farm

http://www.wamba.org.au/maps/Goat_Farm_Map.pdf