waxer said...

Here are my final thoughts on changing the original premise"Stand up paddle boarding" .Some people will invariably want to take something very simple and make it much more complicated,either for fun or profit.We all have all the complication in life that we need.You can invent as many add ons and complications as you wish,and if that is what you enjoy doing more power to you.I personally(and I speak for no one but myself) would rather continue to enjoy it as it is,and as it was, without knobs, blocks, folding doo dahs.If I meet a challenge,side winds,head winds,chop,or whatever comes my way I'll try to deal with it using what I have,as you do every time you enter the ocean.I can hear the stock reply now,oh he just won't accept innovation,he's stuck in the past.There is a distinct difference between want and need.

All well and good but most people being the rabid consumers that our society has bred will decide they actually "need" another board for paddling when it's windy which ironically will be probably the most expensive board they own as opposed to buying one of these accesories.
To adhere to the minimalist ideal one should have only one board.
I don't think too many regular posters on this forum have only one board?
Just today I demoed a Fanatic 14' to see how it went with an eye to trading in my one and only board to a board that I thought would deal with windy conditions better.
Then swapped back to my swiss army knife Laguna bay 11'4" to see what the difference was like.
I figured I can happily stay with the 11'4".

Cuttlefish said...

Scotty88 said...

evokai said...

Scotty88 said...

As per my previous post, emphasise it is STAND UP PADDLE - nothing else.
Remember that post from France with the ropes attached to the rear of the Sup to the waist of the paddler, at least he was standing up.

These replies always make me laugh. Feeling threatened? Lighten up. This is about recreation and having fun on the water. I could also emphasize its PADDLE BOARDING - which makes no mention of a specific paddling position. You wouldn't say "its a Mountain Bike" therefore you can only ride one IN THE MOUNTAINS. That's silly. About as silly as you sound insisting that there is only one way to paddle board. Get over the semantics. A name is a name - nothing else.

Again I emphasise this sport is STAND up paddle hence the forum heading of STAND up
paddle.

True. But no one is trying to change that as the primary activity only offering a solution to situations where standing up and paddling is very difficult due to nature's whims.
I've seen plenty of stand up paddlers lying down and paddling their boards prone at times.

I agree 100 percent. If your paddling into a head wind go prone - simple. You don't need a rubber block or spare kayak paddle. Don't complicate it.

I have a couple of questions for those of you who continually bring up paddling prone as the solution to making progress in a head winds.

First, how far are some of you paddling and what type of board is being used? There seems to be an obvious surfing bias here and I'm guessing most in this discussion are using planing boards that are under 11 feet and under in length. Surfing sups are easy to paddle prone on and usually the distances involved are quite short.

What happens when the SUP being used is over 30" wide with an instep deck of over one inch? GOOD LUCK paddling prone for any length of time on touring/expedition/race SUP like this on several hour excursions. Not everyone is paddling planing/surfing style SUPs without instep decks. Some paddlers are going out for an entire day, covering large distances, and sometimes paddling prone just isn't going to cut it. My board is 31.5" wide, with a sunken deck and it's very uncomfortable to paddle prone to say the least. Throw in a sustained headwind on a paddle that lasts several hours in variable conditions, and having a two piece kayak paddle is actually a very wise investment. Not just for making progress in a headwind either. When you are many miles from home and your primary paddle breaks, then it's not a bad idea to have an extra paddle.

The people who figure it's a good idea will buy one.
The people who figure it's not a good idea won't buy one.
Strikes me as a another piece of equipment that would be good to have as a safety precaution along with the buoyancy vest, radio, etc.
The back up paddle is a valid point.
If I was forced into having to paddle my 11'4" with my hands to make headway I'd be more inclined to paddle it in a kneeling position to get better reach like on a surf lifesaving rescue board.
Should be able to do that on wider boards with inset decks.
Not going to be fun if you're not accustomed to paddling surfboards and the like though.

Cuttlefish said...

The people who figure it's a good idea will buy one.
The people who figure it's not a good idea won't buy one.
Strikes me as a another piece of equipment that would be good to have as a safety precaution along with the buoyancy vest, radio, etc.
The back up paddle is a valid point.
If I was forced into having to paddle my 11'4" with my hands to make headway I'd be more inclined to paddle it in a kneeling position to get better reach like on a surf lifesaving rescue board.
Should be able to do that on wider boards with inset decks.
Not going to be fun if you're not accustomed to paddling surfboards and the like though.

For myself using one of these alternatives would be a last resort in a windy situation or just to change positions after hours of paddling to change things up. I think some people are getting defensive because using a kayak paddle or other alternatives is done from a kneeling position and not upright. I also think many of these people have a strong surfing bias and aren't distance paddlers. I still don't have a kayak paddle or any of these other alternatives, but will in the future.

matt18 said...

i don't wait for perfect weather conditions, i just want to know what the conditions are and if the conditions are that radom on the lake why don't you take the safe option and use a kayak

robon said...

matt18 said...

you could also read a weather map so you don't have to paddle into headwinds for hours

robon said...

I have a couple of questions for those of you who continually bring up paddling prone as the solution to making progress in a head winds.

First, how far are some of you paddling and what type of board is being used? There seems to be an obvious surfing bias here and I'm guessing most in this discussion are using planing boards that are under 11 feet and under in length. Surfing sups are easy to paddle prone on and usually the distances involved are quite short.

What happens when the SUP being used is over 30" wide with an instep deck of over one inch? GOOD LUCK paddling prone for any length of time on touring/expedition/race SUP like this on several hour excursions. Not everyone is paddling planing/surfing style SUPs without instep decks. Some paddlers are going out for an entire day, covering large distances, and sometimes paddling prone just isn't going to cut it. My board is 31.5" wide, with a sunken deck and it's very uncomfortable to paddle prone to say the least. Throw in a sustained headwind on a paddle that lasts several hours in variable conditions, and having a two piece kayak paddle is actually a very wise investment. Not just for making progress in a headwind either. When you are many miles from home and your primary paddle breaks, then it's not a bad idea to have an extra paddle.

Yeah, because reading a "weather map" solves the whole dilemma?

I paddle on a mountain lake where conditions go from calm to windy in a matter of minutes, and the reliability of the local wind forecast is often in question. I have been out on the local lake where the forecast predicted winds no more than 5 mph, and have had to get off the water because I was getting blown backwards. One end of the lake can be dead calm and the other can have have knee high chop and be gusting. The weather is unpredictable and forecasts aren't always accurate. Regardless, I always check the forecast before I go out for an extended paddle.

If you always wait for perfect conditions, then your time is going to be short on water in many areas. Not every one has the same conditions either. Not even close. On days when there is going to be sustained headwinds, alternatives such as a two piece Kayak paddle or something else, are certainly worth looking into. I prefer the standing position and will paddle into headwinds, but there is nothing wrong with alternatives. Especially on long paddles when the weather changes rapidly and unpredictably.

Seriously? The safe route? So, because my local lake has unpredictable and variable conditions, I should be on a kayak? Been there, done that, and I got into SUP because I preferred it to canoes and kayaks. Not just for the upright position either, but because my legs are involved and the line of sight is much better. I don't mind paddling in a wide range of conditions and actually chose an sup that was recommended for windy situations and chop. HOWEVER, who cares if I choose to use a kayak paddle in a strong head wind, so I can make some headway when there is no chance in hell that I can paddle prone? It's not like I would be using a kayak paddle or any other implement for the majority of my outings. It would be only be in distance paddling environments when I want to change position after hours and hours of standing, or strong head winds.

People really need to lighten up about this.

matt18 said...

if you don't want the safe route- then STAND UP - just because something gets invented dose not mean it's wortwhile or progresses an activity or skill
bye
http://www.life.com/gallery/25371/image/3270485#index/0

What a funny site.. How's this for a great idea for those who like to smoke in the rain..

DJ

You still there Leroy.Have a message

Leroy13 said...

fo·rum/ˈfôrəm/Noun
1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
2. An Internet message board.

HI Leroy,
Not sure if your forum definition was aimed at me.
I don't think it was.
I should have put one of these or these after my "Hey DJ stay on topic" but those smilies are so small on the netbook I use I can hardly see them and so didn't bother.
The thing with forums is I've been "lurking" while reading all I can and after a while start posting so as a new poster I "know" some of you guys but to you I'm like a stranger who's just ridden into town.
Tied up his horse and walked through the swinging doors of the saloon.
...the piano player stops....everyone turns to stare as the room goes quiet....and the sound of a pool ball being struck echoes through the suddenly silent room.
What happens next depends upon what I do...
Will I walk over to the bar and order a whisky?....leave the bottle!
Everyone relaxes as the music starts playing again and coversation resumes.
Or will I walk over to the cowboys playing cards and gun Black Bart down in cold blood?
All hell breaks loose.
Woops, sorry I've gone waay off topic.

Robon said...
LOL. Totally phocking pointless talking about this with someone like yourself. Going around in circles and contradicting yourself at every turn. I didn't realize that a two piece Kayak paddle was a new invention, and Stand up paddle companies like Imagine came out with a convertable SUP paddle a long time ago. Far from dumb inventions. Stick to your 10 foot surfing SUP and out of conversations where logic and foresight is involved.

This was the point I was trying to make in my original post. There is a population of individuals with strong opinions and narrow minds as it relates to innovation in the sport. These people are typically new to the sport or have limited experience paddling. Unfortunately they tend to have loud voices and are not afraid to put their ignorance on display. Over time these people become marginalized and their objections to progress become more absurd as the majority accept and integrate these useful innovations into the sport and broaden the overall appeal. I remember when suspension first appeared in the mountain biking scene. There was a loud minority at the time that totally rejected the idea of suspension, claiming it went against the "core" of the sport. I don't think any rational person would take that position today, nearly twenty years later. That's how I view these people. I do thank them for joining the thread and making my point for me.

From my original post:

From my perspective I see a couple different populations of SUP paddlers. There are the people like me who are into SUP because it brings them closer to their passion, mine is whales, for others it might be fitness, fishing, or just having fun on the water. These are the people that are open to ideas like yours and mine. They are willing to try anything that makes the experience more enjoyable. And then there are those that are into SUP only because it is is SUP. They are convinced that the only way to SUP is the way they do do it, and that everyone who doesn't do it their way is either crazy or stupid. My advice is don't bother with those people, you will never change their minds, so don't waste the effort trying.

evokai said...

matt18 said...

thanks i will to stick my SUPing and surfing for what they where intended for, which you spend too much time wanting to change

Remember, if Gary Fisher had stuck to riding a cruiser bike "for what it was intended for" we wouldn't have mountain biking today. If Laird and Kalama had stuck to riding their tandem boards "for what they were intended for" we wouldn't have SUP today, and this conversation wouldn't exist. Practically all innovation comes from the unintended use of existing technology. Deny it if you want, but you are SUPing today thanks only to the fact that someone ignored your advice and used something in a way that it was not originally intended for.

sup's hawaiian history books (READ)
are you pissed because you are trying to sell something i don't want to buy?
We get enough advertsing telling us that we need or want someting that we can consume and then throw it away when the next new thing comes along. I don't want to be sold too thanks. I'm not against new things i just thing that there needs to be a REAL value and we can question them.

Welcome to "the Breeze". Robon. Quite frankly I think that all healthy discussion about watercraft is fantastic. You seem to be getting quite personal and dismissive of others opinions. Please don't let your obvious passion cloud your ability to argue rationally. No thread is ever "hijacked", the discussion does hovever sometimes diverge from the core topic. Keep the great ideas coming but don't expect people to have to agree with them. I personally look forward to the great explorative work that people like you and Kaigyr are engaging in.

PS. Sorry Cuttlefish- definitely not directed at you, just a general observation of the animosity that was developing.