Shaft Alignment

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Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7752 posts
NSW, 7752 posts
30 Jan 2014 9:18am
The normal situation is to have a tube and two flanges. The flange on the outside just ahead of the prop and another one inside on the stern where it seems to disappear in your case under concrete. The flanges are screwed onto the usually bronze tube and then the flanges are bolted in place. With wet bearings this tube is always full of water and the stern tube packing stops it entering the boat. The gap around the tube is usually wet too as its hard to seal the flanges. The tube can rot away after a few years which allows more water into that gap and more pressure behind the inside flange. With yachts the tube can be fibreglass and instead of a thread join they can be joined with various compounds.
In your case it sounds like the best situation would be to convert that concrete into the new "stern tube". Seal off the leak with Knead it and if you can get the area bone dry, abraid it and glass over with epoxy and a couple of layers of cloth.
Fiesta
Fiesta
QLD
122 posts
QLD, 122 posts
30 Jan 2014 8:59am

I would go for option 3 unless time and money are available in larger than normal quantities. Should look really tidy once complete.

The knead it idea is good.

Stating the B$$#^** obvious, however I would want to leave the knead it repair for a good week + to be sure that it has made a seal. Once the glass is in, its in. You don't want pools of water sitting behind the glass cover long term.

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
30 Jan 2014 12:05pm
The water is coming in from the OUT side. Would it not make sense to determine exactly where it is coming in from first and get that sorted from the outside then work on getting everything dried out on the IN side and epoxied up etc.

I still don't like the idea of the concrete in there and I would be getting it out even if it means replacing the keel bolts there.

Economy is always a factor but so is quality. If you do a cheap job and then find you have to redo it more expensively later it is false economy in the first instance.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2707 posts
NSW, 2707 posts
30 Jan 2014 1:34pm
Thanks Ramona and Fiesta. I have just returned from the boat yard and we are doing exactly as suggested.

The old tube had corroded in the section that is exposed in the bilge forward of the bulkhead enclosing the concrete. The stainless tube has been cut off just behind the leak, just forward of the bulkhead, and a glass tube pushed over the remaining piece of exposed stainless tube, bonded and epoxied. This piece of glass tube has a bearing in it to support the forward end of the shaft. The whole lot is fully glassed in and is rock solid.

Unfortunately, as I suspected might happen, the seal around the new section of tube and the old stainless is allowing a small amount of water through. Getting a perfect seal over stainless is improbable. It seeps through at 1.5 litres per 20 hours, and the leak is slowing down, maybe as the pinhole in the stern tube join clogs up. However, any improvement in the flow rate from any clogging isn't likely to be permanent.

The concreted area of the bilge has only had a flow coat put over the concrete so any leaks in this area, as noted by Ramona, aren't contained. The area will be dried out over the next few days, that flow coat will be ground back and the entire concrete area will be solidly glassed in. We can't improve the seal at the stern tube repair as any such work may exacerbate the problem due to the difficulty of getting a seal over stainless. But we are talking pinhole size and maybe 12" below water level so there is not much pressure behind the leak. As Ramona says, the entire concrete area will become the sealed in stern tube.

The principal risk is that the leak at the stern tube repair becomes worse and, if that happens, the water then finds a way through the glassed in concrete. The repair at the stern tube is well done and solid reducing the risk of the leak becoming worse. The pressure is not great so the risk of the leak coming through a weak point in the newly glassed in area is also reduced.

In the worst case and the leak does come through into the people bits of the boat a supply of Kneadit and/or Stay Afloat and a bilge pump will get me home. If that happens, out comes the concrete and in goes a new tube.

While a new stern tube is the ideal repair there are costs and risks in such a major restructure of the hull. The risk with the repair we are doing appears to be as low as reasonably practicable and is acceptable.

Who needs intellectual stimulation in retirement by working or studying, my boat gives me enough thinking activity thanks.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2707 posts
NSW, 2707 posts
17 Feb 2014 7:15pm
Collected the boat today. The shaft tube repair and Volvo gland has resulted in a bone dry bilge. I ran her for about 45 minutes including at max revs, and she is very smooth, also using less throttle for the same revs and better boat speed.

A problem I have had for some time is that the near new Gori prop (about 30 hours engine time) is reluctant to open fully at low revs. I need to give her a nudge to open up but once open it is very smooth. Before the changes to the shaft I thought it might have been a bit of shaft misalignment causing a bit of whipping in my poorly supported shaft. But obviously not as the shaft is now very well aligned and well supported. My prop was clean and opened normally with the boat on the hard. I have rung Porters (who I got it from) who are investigating with Gori for me.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
18 Feb 2014 12:22am
Good to hear you have that sorted. Having a bone dry bilge warms the cockles of me heart.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7752 posts
NSW, 7752 posts
18 Feb 2014 9:04am
The Volvo gland will be an excellent investment.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2707 posts
NSW, 2707 posts
15 May 2014 6:11pm
I had a problem with engine vibration when engaging gear some of you knew about, as per the above post when I thought it was the prop not opening. Turned out to be the gear cable was seized and she wasn't engaging gear properly, snatching and rocking the engine violently until it eventually fully engaged gear. I fitted a new gear cable and adjusted it late this afternoon.
She is now perfect (touch wood), the engine runs smoothly at all revs, gears engage smoothly in forward and reverse, the bilge is dry and there is no shaft or other vibrations.
A happy camper.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
15 May 2014 6:55pm
cisco said...
Repeat:- Do not adjust while underway. It's frigging dangerous.

If you do the static alignment all correctly and you still get the strumming noise it strongly suggests a bent shaft but if you say it is straight it might just be harmonics which is still not good.

Noise and vibration is energy that is not going toward driving the boat along.

Just a suggestion and I am not sure how to do it properly but the longer axle on my wife's front wheel drive Corolla has a dampening weight attached half way along.

Maybe you could try bolting a shaft anode at various positions along the shaft and see if that has any effect. Easy to do and I can't see it doing any harm.

Cicely June went to Rockhampton on a truck a couple of weeks ago. Haven't heard anything since but she has gone to a good home and the youngish couple that bought her say they will have her done in 6 months. Entirely possible with digits extracted from the rear end but also ambitious.

They have registered on the S&S 34 owners forum and I expect they will post progress reports there.

Re flexible mounts:- With the alloy Peterson 42 I had some years ago at one slipping I had the prop pitched and balanced and did an accurate (within .003") alignment and with the bottom clean I was getting NINE KNOTS out of it in smooth water. However within 8 weeks it had gone to crap again being .009" out of align.

The flex mounts just keep settling in all the time and doing shaft alignments every two months is not my idea of fun boating.


as far as weights go if you add them to your prop shaft think of using car wheel weights from a Tyre shop. the stick on ones and use a hose clamp to secure them.
Theres a jig down here in Vic at the H28 club to suit Walker H28's boat for setting up the prop shaft hope to borrow it when I change out my mounts
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
15 May 2014 10:32pm
MorningBird said...
I had a problem with engine vibration when engaging gear some of you knew about, as per the above post when I thought it was the prop not opening. Turned out to be the gear cable was seized and she wasn't engaging gear properly, snatching and rocking the engine violently until it eventually fully engaged gear. I fitted a new gear cable and adjusted it late this afternoon.
She is now perfect (touch wood), the engine runs smoothly at all revs, gears engage smoothly in forward and reverse, the bilge is dry and there is no shaft or other vibrations.
A happy camper.



Well that is a relief. Not the most obvious thing to be looking for.

Probably a good idea to change your gearbox oil now after all that slipping and snatching. Could be particles of clutch material swishing around in the oil. Use a clean container to catch the oil so that you will be able to see any debris in the oil.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2707 posts
NSW, 2707 posts
16 May 2014 11:30am
Good advice on the oil change Cisco. Will do.

I wouldn't have pinged to the cable any time soon. The 70 year old mechanic who installed the engine in the boat back in 1984 got it in an hour of investigating.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
16 May 2014 1:46pm
As that has happened to you it has given me a heads up on disconnecting my cables, checking their workability, lubricating them and readjusting them.

I gave them a good old squirt with Lanox including the gear box end before we left Lake Macquarie but that exhaust elbow is still dodgy and salt is building up around that area.

I have in mind to shift the engine control panel up next to the switch board plus move the other switches to a better location and fitting a small door there for better access to the dip stick and wet manifold. Once I get into that though it will be a complete re-wire.

I used to pull all my toys apart when I was kid. Old habits die hard.
BORNFREEE
BORNFREEE
72 posts
72 posts
16 May 2014 1:53pm
Using knead it and glassing over concrete
is not my idea of fixing a boat sounds more like a bodge job to me.
For the life of me i can not see the Swarbricks putting concrete into such a damn fine sailing vessel , i could be wrong but it sure is an eye opener reading this stuff on here
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2707 posts
NSW, 2707 posts
16 May 2014 7:44pm
No kneadit. We built a watertight bulkhead around the stern tube to prevent leaks from the stern tube getting into the bilge. A low risk solution. If every boat was as low risk as Morning Bird, the oceans would be much safer.
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