Select to expand quoteShanty1 said..nswsailor said..
Time for a reality check from my practical experience with Top Hats.
Now a lot of the words that have been said by forum posters are very true and Shanty, you should take careful note of what has been said.Now some assumptions that have been made. Average speed for a start. You will average around 2 to 3 knots at BEST. I only average 4.6 knots and that is cruising which in practice means motor sailing whenever the speed drops below 3 knots. Why am I motor sailing, because Top Hats when loaded for cruising are not very fast and any distance over thirty miles that requires a tide to be meet at the destination requires that at some point I will be motor sailing.
That means your voyage could take over 500 days!
Water. Water equals weight, whether you carry it or carry fuel to run a water maker. I reckon you will need a minimum of 300 litres [based on your timing, more if mine] Mk 1's carry 159 litres. Mk 2's carry around 120 litres and the Mk 3 around 100 litres. Shoal draft versions carry none. So there is a large gap of about 10 x 20 litre jerry cans plus.Food. If you are going to run a refrigerator [more weight] you will need a large battery bank with solar panels to keep it charged. You will also need a small generator and fuel if you loose your solar panels. Cooking food will require gas as you will not be able to carry enough methylated spirits for a meths stove. In an onboard situation I can see no way that you will be able to keep any vegetables or fruit fresh, so after about 2-3 weeks you will be relying on tin and dried food or what you have in a frig. You are planning on a frig?
Watch keeping. This will kill you because of the time required to complete the voyage. DON'T be encourage by what Rob did in SUNDOWNER in circumnavigating Australia because he took time off to allow for the right season for his next section but most importantly what most people don't realize is that Rob had another 30 foot yacht with him from Brisbane around the top, down WA and across the Bight [with 15m waves] to his home port in VIC. This meant they were alternated their sleeping so one yacht was always on watch! Rob took about two years to complete the circumnavigation.
Someone said that Top Hats are a light weight JOG boat and this is correct. Mates of mine who race strip everything they can out of them, then they become fast [even on handicap] and they still do win races.
Shanty I admire your dedication but you will miss out on so many experience by doing a dash around Australia when you can cruise and enjoy all that Australia has to offer, a much better experience I think. If I had done what you wish to do, just think how bland my blogs would have been for you when you were growing up.
The advice to at least use a 32-34 foot yacht should be seriously considered over a Top Hat.
NSWsailor
Onboard SV Seaka, a Mark 1 Top Hat anchored at Raby Bay in Moreton Bay on a three to four month cruise towards Lizard Island.
Also how long are you in Raby Bay?
Till Friday with this wind!
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..Shanty1 said..nswsailor said..
Time for a reality check from my practical experience with Top Hats.
Now a lot of the words that have been said by forum posters are very true and Shanty, you should take careful note of what has been said.Now some assumptions that have been made. Average speed for a start. You will average around 2 to 3 knots at BEST. I only average 4.6 knots and that is cruising which in practice means motor sailing whenever the speed drops below 3 knots. Why am I motor sailing, because Top Hats when loaded for cruising are not very fast and any distance over thirty miles that requires a tide to be meet at the destination requires that at some point I will be motor sailing.
That means your voyage could take over 500 days!
Water. Water equals weight, whether you carry it or carry fuel to run a water maker. I reckon you will need a minimum of 300 litres [based on your timing, more if mine] Mk 1's carry 159 litres. Mk 2's carry around 120 litres and the Mk 3 around 100 litres. Shoal draft versions carry none. So there is a large gap of about 10 x 20 litre jerry cans plus.Food. If you are going to run a refrigerator [more weight] you will need a large battery bank with solar panels to keep it charged. You will also need a small generator and fuel if you loose your solar panels. Cooking food will require gas as you will not be able to carry enough methylated spirits for a meths stove. In an onboard situation I can see no way that you will be able to keep any vegetables or fruit fresh, so after about 2-3 weeks you will be relying on tin and dried food or what you have in a frig. You are planning on a frig?
Watch keeping. This will kill you because of the time required to complete the voyage. DON'T be encourage by what Rob did in SUNDOWNER in circumnavigating Australia because he took time off to allow for the right season for his next section but most importantly what most people don't realize is that Rob had another 30 foot yacht with him from Brisbane around the top, down WA and across the Bight [with 15m waves] to his home port in VIC. This meant they were alternated their sleeping so one yacht was always on watch! Rob took about two years to complete the circumnavigation.
Someone said that Top Hats are a light weight JOG boat and this is correct. Mates of mine who race strip everything they can out of them, then they become fast [even on handicap] and they still do win races.
Shanty I admire your dedication but you will miss out on so many experience by doing a dash around Australia when you can cruise and enjoy all that Australia has to offer, a much better experience I think. If I had done what you wish to do, just think how bland my blogs would have been for you when you were growing up.
The advice to at least use a 32-34 foot yacht should be seriously considered over a Top Hat.
NSWsailor
Onboard SV Seaka, a Mark 1 Top Hat anchored at Raby Bay in Moreton Bay on a three to four month cruise towards Lizard Island.
Also how long are you in Raby Bay?
Till Friday with this wind!
I hear you a know a guy who lives at Redcliffe and he reckons it was hell trying to go to Bulwer in his tinny today. I don't know why he was going to Bulwer. Apparently he was "Dropping of supplies" whatever that means. If you get board at Raby Bay you could always go for a look around the bay. Plenty of places to go.
1) Blaksleys, you would have gone past in on the way up it's a nice sandy beach. Good place to have a fire in the cold.
2) Little ship club over at dunwich, can have a beer over there. Pretty peaceful
3) old Dean Billa is a nice achorahe
4) Myora is another nice Anchorage (can go right up to the oyster stakes here plenty of water).
5) Lazard's gutter on northern peel isn't bad in a SE er either there's a lot of reef around so don't run into it.
Well you probably know these anchorages anyway but I said them again I suppose. Have a good trip, I will have to buy you a beer if I see you some day. Seaka looks like a beautiful boat.
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Hi Shanty
You have mentioned a bit on reading that you have done.
But not this
www.webfactories.biz/book/915598995/singlehanded-sailing
The author, Andrew Evens, pops up on Seabreeze as Foolish Muse.
He has very kindly made this book (download) free to all who are interested in single handed sailing.
gary
Thanks I'll have a read.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Time for a reality check from my practical experience with Top Hats.
Now a lot of the words that have been said by forum posters are very true and Shanty, you should take careful note of what has been said.Now some assumptions that have been made. Average speed for a start. You will average around 2 to 3 knots at BEST. I only average 4.6 knots and that is cruising which in practice means motor sailing whenever the speed drops below 3 knots. Why am I motor sailing, because Top Hats when loaded for cruising are not very fast and any distance over thirty miles that requires a tide to be meet at the destination requires that at some point I will be motor sailing.
That means your voyage could take over 500 days!
Water. Water equals weight, whether you carry it or carry fuel to run a water maker. I reckon you will need a minimum of 300 litres [based on your timing, more if mine] Mk 1's carry 159 litres. Mk 2's carry around 120 litres and the Mk 3 around 100 litres. Shoal draft versions carry none. So there is a large gap of about 10 x 20 litre jerry cans plus.Food. If you are going to run a refrigerator [more weight] you will need a large battery bank with solar panels to keep it charged. You will also need a small generator and fuel if you loose your solar panels. Cooking food will require gas as you will not be able to carry enough methylated spirits for a meths stove. In an onboard situation I can see no way that you will be able to keep any vegetables or fruit fresh, so after about 2-3 weeks you will be relying on tin and dried food or what you have in a frig. You are planning on a frig?
Watch keeping. This will kill you because of the time required to complete the voyage. DON'T be encourage by what Rob did in SUNDOWNER in circumnavigating Australia because he took time off to allow for the right season for his next section but most importantly what most people don't realize is that Rob had another 30 foot yacht with him from Brisbane around the top, down WA and across the Bight [with 15m waves] to his home port in VIC. This meant they were alternated their sleeping so one yacht was always on watch! Rob took about two years to complete the circumnavigation.
Someone said that Top Hats are a light weight JOG boat and this is correct. Mates of mine who race strip everything they can out of them, then they become fast [even on handicap] and they still do win races.
Shanty I admire your dedication but you will miss out on so many experience by doing a dash around Australia when you can cruise and enjoy all that Australia has to offer, a much better experience I think. If I had done what you wish to do, just think how bland my blogs would have been for you when you were growing up.
The advice to at least use a 32-34 foot yacht should be seriously considered over a Top Hat.
NSWsailor
Onboard SV Seaka, a Mark 1 Top Hat anchored at Raby Bay in Moreton Bay on a three to four month cruise towards Lizard Island.
500 days at sea! This answers your principal question in this thread, a Top Hat is too small for the job.
An S&S34, your other prospective boat, can average a bit over 5kts. That is what I achieve with mine on long offshore passages. However, your boat will be loaded up a lot more than mine usually is and you will be solo so sail trim and steering will not be as good as we usually achieve. So you might average 4.5 kts.
Getting past the NSW east coast is a problem in a small boat. Solo sailing north inshore away from the EAC involves an unacceptably high risk you will hit something hard (another boat, fishing nets, land etc). So you might decide to go south along the NSW coast to be going with the EAC. Definitely achievable, there isn't much out there to hit. However, that also means crossing the Great Australian Bight against the westerlies and currents. Nuh, not good.
Crossing the top end and down through the GBR. Lots of hard stuff to run into. How do you plan to do it?
This idea you can sleep for 20 minutes at a time and not be fatigued is rubbish for more than a couple of days at a time. Some sailors like Ellen MaCarthur say they do it but she is not sailing close inshore, she is in deep water and when the conditions are good she gets an all nighter in, and reasonably often.
Every time we go to sea we are taking risks, smart sailors consider and reduce them to as low as practicable and if they are still unacceptably high change their plans. The acceptability of risk in sailing should include the risk you place on others to come to your aid to get you out of trouble you should have foreseen and prepared for or not put yourself into that situation to start with.
A two handed around Australia non-stop sail would be a more appropriate challenge, in my view. And more fun.
Select to expand quoteYou MorningBird said..nswsailor said..
Time for a reality check from my practical experience with Top Hats.
Now a lot of the words that have been said by forum posters are very true and Shanty, you should take careful note of what has been said.Now some assumptions that have been made. Average speed for a start. You will average around 2 to 3 knots at BEST. I only average 4.6 knots and that is cruising which in practice means motor sailing whenever the speed drops below 3 knots. Why am I motor sailing, because Top Hats when loaded for cruising are not very fast and any distance over thirty miles that requires a tide to be meet at the destination requires that at some point I will be motor sailing.
That means your voyage could take over 500 days!
Water. Water equals weight, whether you carry it or carry fuel to run a water maker. I reckon you will need a minimum of 300 litres [based on your timing, more if mine] Mk 1's carry 159 litres. Mk 2's carry around 120 litres and the Mk 3 around 100 litres. Shoal draft versions carry none. So there is a large gap of about 10 x 20 litre jerry cans plus.Food. If you are going to run a refrigerator [more weight] you will need a large battery bank with solar panels to keep it charged. You will also need a small generator and fuel if you loose your solar panels. Cooking food will require gas as you will not be able to carry enough methylated spirits for a meths stove. In an onboard situation I can see no way that you will be able to keep any vegetables or fruit fresh, so after about 2-3 weeks you will be relying on tin and dried food or what you have in a frig. You are planning on a frig?
Watch keeping. This will kill you because of the time required to complete the voyage. DON'T be encourage by what Rob did in SUNDOWNER in circumnavigating Australia because he took time off to allow for the right season for his next section but most importantly what most people don't realize is that Rob had another 30 foot yacht with him from Brisbane around the top, down WA and across the Bight [with 15m waves] to his home port in VIC. This meant they were alternated their sleeping so one yacht was always on watch! Rob took about two years to complete the circumnavigation.
Someone said that Top Hats are a light weight JOG boat and this is correct. Mates of mine who race strip everything they can out of them, then they become fast [even on handicap] and they still do win races.
Shanty I admire your dedication but you will miss out on so many experience by doing a dash around Australia when you can cruise and enjoy all that Australia has to offer, a much better experience I think. If I had done what you wish to do, just think how bland my blogs would have been for you when you were growing up.
The advice to at least use a 32-34 foot yacht should be seriously considered over a Top Hat.
NSWsailor
Onboard SV Seaka, a Mark 1 Top Hat anchored at Raby Bay in Moreton Bay on a three to four month cruise towards Lizard Island.
500 days at sea! This answers your principal question in this thread, a Top Hat is too small for the job.
An S&S34, your other prospective boat, can average a bit over 5kts. That is what I achieve with mine on long offshore passages. However, your boat will be loaded up a lot more than mine usually is and you will be solo so sail trim and steering will not be as good as we usually achieve. So you might average 4.5 kts.
Getting past the NSW east coast is a problem in a small boat. Solo sailing north inshore away from the EAC involves an unacceptably high risk you will hit something hard (another boat, fishing nets, land etc). So you might decide to go south along the NSW coast to be going with the EAC. Definitely achievable, there isn't much out there to hit. However, that also means crossing the Great Australian Bight against the westerlies and currents. Nuh, not good.
Crossing the top end and down through the GBR. Lots of hard stuff to run into. How do you plan to do it?
This idea you can sleep for 20 minutes at a time and not be fatigued is rubbish for more than a couple of days at a time. Some sailors like Ellen MaCarthur say they do it but she is not sailing close inshore, she is in deep water and when the conditions are good she gets an all nighter in, and reasonably often.
Every time we go to sea we are taking risks, smart sailors consider and reduce them to as low as practicable and if they are still unacceptably high change their plans. The acceptability of risk in sailing should include the risk you place on others to come to your aid to get you out of trouble you should have foreseen and prepared for or not put yourself into that situation to start with.
A two handed around Australia non-stop sail would be a more appropriate challenge, in my view. And more fun.
Well I would definitely be going outside the Great Barrier Reef. Entering through the Raine island entrance. Avoiding the reef by a minimum of 25 or 30 miles. Until coming inside the reef that is. Also staying away the whole 24 - 30 hours or so from coming in the RIE across to near the mainland. Then heaving to for 10-12 hours doing 20 minute cat naps. After going through the torris strait and crossing the Gulf. Around the Western coast staying probably 50-100 miles off the coast. Once rounding cape Leewuin go strait for SW cape Tasmania. Then doing going about 50-75 miles maybe more east of the NSW coast. Before coming back into Brisbane.
PS I prefer to be by myself.
Someone (was) planning a trans-tasman in a TH.. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bowral/sail-boats/tophat-yacht/1220119980
When Jon Sanders left Perth for his record attempt in his S&S34 he was incredibly loaded down with Stores it wasn't really the ldeal boat for such an attempt not from a sea worthy consideration but the small volume for its size to carry the stores needed.
The yacht hit its first storm and even though she was heavily loaded she carried on .
because yachts are so expensive and time consuming to be truly sea worthy it pays to be looking at smaller yachts. .
The Tophat is a great choice , though like most production yachts the build quality is always in the back of your mind .
She will carry a load quite well (she can be raced with four people)
she has a long keel and the rudder is well protected behind the keel .
she is 55% ballasted , a very tough boat for the money she will look after you .
buying the boat is the cheap part , outfighting is what is going to slow you down, also anyone who goes out to sea in the cyclone season is a fool so picking your season will also hold you back .
Having said that Mathew Flinders sailed a hulk of a boat full of worm all the way around his crew wanted to jump ship before hitting the southern ocean.
Its amazing how many people who have done this stuff have the smallest amount of posts on here probably to busy doing it ??
so young man hold onto your dream cover all the bases and live your life.
here is another young man that. Achieved a even harder task than yours if you google him I am sure you will find another incredible human being. P.S he didn't know how to. Sail when he left .
solotheamericas.org/
Select to expand quoteZzzzzz said..
When Jon Sanders left Perth for his record attempt in his S&S34 he was incredibly loaded down with Stores it wasn't really the ldeal boat for such an attempt not from a sea worthy consideration but the small volume for its size to carry the stores needed.
The yacht hit its first storm and even though she was heavily loaded she carried on .
because yachts are so expensive and time consuming to be truly sea worthy it pays to be looking at smaller yachts. .
The Tophat is a great choice , though like most production yachts the build quality is always in the back of your mind .
She will carry a load quite well (she can be raced with four people)
she has a long keel and the rudder is well protected behind the keel .
she is 55% ballasted , a very tough boat for the money she will look after you .
buying the boat is the cheap part , outfighting is what is going to slow you down, also anyone who goes out to sea in the cyclone season is a fool so picking your season will also hold you back .
Having said that Mathew Flinders sailed a hulk of a boat full of worm all the way around his crew wanted to jump ship before hitting the southern ocean.
Its amazing how many people who have done this stuff have the smallest amount of posts on here probably to busy doing it ??
so young man hold onto your dream cover all the bases and live your life.
here is another young man that. Achieved a even harder task than yours if you google him I am sure you will find another incredible human being. P.S he didn't know how to. Sail when he left .
solotheamericas.org/
I have read about him briefly in the past. I full on read everything I could on him then. What a fantastic guy, am currently queuing up some sailing trips on other people's boats at the moment. Also doing a trip on a tug tomorrow. Thanks for sharing
regards,
Mick
So you are still asking questions and good ones. You know how to nav and fix engines and have time at sea. You know how to use a paper chart and apps.
A lot more than I gave you respect for in the begining.
Are you still interested.
I would recomend a brief to give to potential sponors that includes a timeline and prep plan so they dont just say why would we give this guy money. There are people that can help with that. Not me my spelling is worse than yours. Be specific, I can afford to purchase the boat, however I need financial assistance with........
Look at all the boats that have done this, they have sponsorship down the side.
They may just rent you a sat phone with free data? Predict wind may give you 3 months free. Take anything. Yes Isailor is good. Send them an email.
Program=money+time. The more time you have the less money you need. Vise versa.
If you buy a boat what is your budget and timline to fit it out and provision for the trip.
Technology is on your side. Weather,Navigating with apps,nutrition ect. Its all much easier than it used to be.
